Forums » Suggestions
Peytros has a point. Sacrificing almost half of your total DPS is almost never worth it in a combat scenario. It doesn't make sense to throw add-ons into the game that are unusable due to the fact that no one has room for them.
A suitable alternative to auxiliary ports would be a greater number of ships with baked-in add-ons (like the Raptor's radar extender). The most obvious example is the Greyhound, which should have a built-in cargo scanner. Perhaps several other named ships should also have built-in items.
However, it seems that you want flexibility, and adding ships with built-in buffs isn't the way to achieve it. Adding a new port type is.
A suitable alternative to auxiliary ports would be a greater number of ships with baked-in add-ons (like the Raptor's radar extender). The most obvious example is the Greyhound, which should have a built-in cargo scanner. Perhaps several other named ships should also have built-in items.
However, it seems that you want flexibility, and adding ships with built-in buffs isn't the way to achieve it. Adding a new port type is.
"just reafirms every newbs thinking of OMFG HORNET AND RAGNAROK ARE DA BEST SHIP EVAR LOOK AT ALL THE GUNZ IT CAN HAVE. "
I know I've been out of play for a while, but has it really been that long that you are no longer correcting their misguided conclusions? :P
I know I've been out of play for a while, but has it really been that long that you are no longer correcting their misguided conclusions? :P
Why correct them when we can just kill them?
Killing is correcting.
Sacrificing almost half of your total DPS is almost never worth it in a combat scenario.
I think Incarnate's point is that it's "almost never worth it in a combat scenario yet".
Nevertheless, I'm on the fence on this one. I do completely get the allure of never being able to have the "perfect" setup, though currently I'd say that the cost of these utilities don't yet outweigh the benefit.
If the AWACS unit sent my radar out to group members within 5k instead of 2k, and relayed everyone in the group's information (instead of just the ship with the device), then that would be more worth giving up the DPS. If the cargo blocker worked for all ships within a 250m radius, then it would be worth it to give up the firepower (and it'd promote more group activity). If the radar extender could also look through roids within its 2000m range, then it'd be very much worth it as well (think of a ship with both AWACS and radar extender). You get the idea.
The thing is, the ideas for these utilities are very cool, but they aren't effective enough to make us want to use them in place of a weapon. That's why we bitch and moan for a utility port. If the utilities were far more powerful/useful, I think that we'd find them a more appealing option without a utility port.
I think Incarnate's point is that it's "almost never worth it in a combat scenario yet".
Nevertheless, I'm on the fence on this one. I do completely get the allure of never being able to have the "perfect" setup, though currently I'd say that the cost of these utilities don't yet outweigh the benefit.
If the AWACS unit sent my radar out to group members within 5k instead of 2k, and relayed everyone in the group's information (instead of just the ship with the device), then that would be more worth giving up the DPS. If the cargo blocker worked for all ships within a 250m radius, then it would be worth it to give up the firepower (and it'd promote more group activity). If the radar extender could also look through roids within its 2000m range, then it'd be very much worth it as well (think of a ship with both AWACS and radar extender). You get the idea.
The thing is, the ideas for these utilities are very cool, but they aren't effective enough to make us want to use them in place of a weapon. That's why we bitch and moan for a utility port. If the utilities were far more powerful/useful, I think that we'd find them a more appealing option without a utility port.
Thank you landron. At least someone gets my jokes ;-)
Perhaps if pirates worked in teams and shared the risk / work / reward like traders work with each other and anti pirate groups like VPR, then using the scanner would become more practical.
1) I say this because I am a sarcastic bastard who can't resist a dig. For the record I stand by my comments on group activities elsewhere.
2) As a trader, I see no rational reason to want a scanner blocker, either port issue or built in for the simple reason, if a pirate sees I'm carrying crap, I may be left alone (hardly likely, but they may ask less than they would normally). If a pirate sees that I'm blocking their scanner, they are going to be more inclined to want to know whats inside. /me is not a pinnate.
3) If anything, I'd rather have an add-on that disquizes what I'm carrying-preferably something that can be set by the user so that when I'm carrying Government Issued Plasma Cannons through b8, it shows that I'm carrying porn or chocolate.
Perhaps if pirates worked in teams and shared the risk / work / reward like traders work with each other and anti pirate groups like VPR, then using the scanner would become more practical.
1) I say this because I am a sarcastic bastard who can't resist a dig. For the record I stand by my comments on group activities elsewhere.
2) As a trader, I see no rational reason to want a scanner blocker, either port issue or built in for the simple reason, if a pirate sees I'm carrying crap, I may be left alone (hardly likely, but they may ask less than they would normally). If a pirate sees that I'm blocking their scanner, they are going to be more inclined to want to know whats inside. /me is not a pinnate.
3) If anything, I'd rather have an add-on that disquizes what I'm carrying-preferably something that can be set by the user so that when I'm carrying Government Issued Plasma Cannons through b8, it shows that I'm carrying porn or chocolate.
3) If anything, I'd rather have an add-on that disquizes what I'm carrying-preferably something that can be set by the user so that when I'm carrying Government Issued Plasma Cannons through b8, it shows that I'm carrying porn or chocolate.
As per this thread, it's already in the works.
As per this thread, it's already in the works.
Perhaps if pirates worked in teams and shared the risk / work / reward like traders work with each other and anti pirate groups like VPR
Are you high? Or did you finally get that ice-pick lobotomy done? The only economic activity that occurs in groups with any regularity are groups of [CLM]/[CHRN], usually 2-3 but often enough 5+, that are camping a WH, processing voys, or raping Connie.
I never, ever see traders working in groups... and I hunt in both Grey and Nation space, so it's not like I'm missing them. VPR is somewhat different, since they have to be in a group to survive.
Are you high? Or did you finally get that ice-pick lobotomy done? The only economic activity that occurs in groups with any regularity are groups of [CLM]/[CHRN], usually 2-3 but often enough 5+, that are camping a WH, processing voys, or raping Connie.
I never, ever see traders working in groups... and I hunt in both Grey and Nation space, so it's not like I'm missing them. VPR is somewhat different, since they have to be in a group to survive.
LMFAO!!!!
Come on Lecter, I even pointed out I was being a sarcastic bastard poking fun at you lot with that comment! I don't know which is funnier, my jokes or your taking them seriously.
Ah well, at least you got it right in putting CLM ahead of CHRN.
Come on Lecter, I even pointed out I was being a sarcastic bastard poking fun at you lot with that comment! I don't know which is funnier, my jokes or your taking them seriously.
Ah well, at least you got it right in putting CLM ahead of CHRN.
Back on topic?
/shrug I can't be bothered to read your whole post, fluffer.
As for the [CLM]/[CHRN] ordering, I saw what I did and considered reversing. But seniority has its privileges: ask me about the law firm obsession with ordering rules for e-mail recipients/CCs sometime.
As for the [CLM]/[CHRN] ordering, I saw what I did and considered reversing. But seniority has its privileges: ask me about the law firm obsession with ordering rules for e-mail recipients/CCs sometime.
Aticephyr:
If the AWACS unit sent my radar out to group members ... and relayed everyone in the group's information (instead of just the ship with the device)
It does do that, it's additive of all sensor data of every group member who is within range of the awacs-equipped ship (everyone sees everyone's radar data). It is NOT just the awacs ship's radar itself. And yes, ranges can be tweaked, I figured we'd make another addon with different range properties eventually. We only dropped it in a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't seen any feedback on it
Back to topic:
I totally understand the fact that dropping DPS is the big deal. That's what I meant by "people won't use it". The tradeoff may not be worthwhile yet. That's part of forward development, and the changes I will be making that will impact how those tradeoffs are evaluated.
Also, the drop in DPS goes back to where I said it "encourages grouping". If two pirates can achieve more than one alone (hitting more worthwhile targets thanks to extra sensor data, etc), I don't think that's a bad thing. It's just a benefit.. it isn't to say that one can't operate alone. Yes, we have player density issues, but we can certainly create some more mechanics to help people find each other (plus, Pirate Clans and other things are coming, which could result in npc wingmen you can order and the like).
If the AWACS unit sent my radar out to group members ... and relayed everyone in the group's information (instead of just the ship with the device)
It does do that, it's additive of all sensor data of every group member who is within range of the awacs-equipped ship (everyone sees everyone's radar data). It is NOT just the awacs ship's radar itself. And yes, ranges can be tweaked, I figured we'd make another addon with different range properties eventually. We only dropped it in a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't seen any feedback on it
Back to topic:
I totally understand the fact that dropping DPS is the big deal. That's what I meant by "people won't use it". The tradeoff may not be worthwhile yet. That's part of forward development, and the changes I will be making that will impact how those tradeoffs are evaluated.
Also, the drop in DPS goes back to where I said it "encourages grouping". If two pirates can achieve more than one alone (hitting more worthwhile targets thanks to extra sensor data, etc), I don't think that's a bad thing. It's just a benefit.. it isn't to say that one can't operate alone. Yes, we have player density issues, but we can certainly create some more mechanics to help people find each other (plus, Pirate Clans and other things are coming, which could result in npc wingmen you can order and the like).
Pirate Clans and other things are coming, which could result in npc wingmen you can order and the like
You're a filthy, filthy tease.
You're a filthy, filthy tease.
It does do that, it's additive of all sensor data of every group member who is within range of the awacs-equipped ship (everyone sees everyone's radar data). It is NOT just the awacs ship's radar itself. And yes, ranges can be tweaked, I figured we'd make another addon with different range properties eventually. We only dropped it in a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't seen any feedback on it
Cool. That shows me for posting without fully testing something. :)
Cool. That shows me for posting without fully testing something. :)
inc this may just be me but I think you should seriously reconsider adding like two utility ports to every ship in the game yes it may be a pain but i mean its the future flying around on a ship with one gun because you have some scanners on is laughable. Also given the current distance most vo fights take place at I can fly a ship without any radar extenders in a storm or fog and still be perfectly fine. Sure it might be hard to find someone with only 500m to do it in but in the actual fight it doesn't offer any advantage, and to anyone that says well you need radar extenders for botting i call bull i have leveled up a bunch of alts in storm sectors because the bots aggro to you.
I suggest adding utility ports to the marginally capable combat ships. Example:
Rag • 2 ports
Moth • 2 Ports
Light Moth • 2 ports
Hornet • 2 Ports
Raptor • 1 port
Revenant • 1 port
EC88 • 1 port
Moth Heavy Miner • 1 port
Basic Marauder • 1 Port
Centaur • 1 port
Greyhound • 1 port
Axia Wraith • 1 port
Centurion (with 1 S port) • 1 port
This might make some of these less used or clumsy ships more appealing.
Of course, utility add-ons could still be equipped in S ports also.
Rag • 2 ports
Moth • 2 Ports
Light Moth • 2 ports
Hornet • 2 Ports
Raptor • 1 port
Revenant • 1 port
EC88 • 1 port
Moth Heavy Miner • 1 port
Basic Marauder • 1 Port
Centaur • 1 port
Greyhound • 1 port
Axia Wraith • 1 port
Centurion (with 1 S port) • 1 port
This might make some of these less used or clumsy ships more appealing.
Of course, utility add-ons could still be equipped in S ports also.
mission creek i agree with your idea but the axia wraith is quite a good pvp ship but that is aside the point. I think it would fit in better with the rp if the high end combat ships also had 2 utility ports why would the serco or itani let their most prized ships be crippled by a ion storm or fog while the marginally capable combat ships will have much more resources at their disposal?