Okay, someone asked me to consider being in the PCC. I looked into it and decided that at this point I am going to decline. The reason is I cannot tell if Guild Software, Inc. is trying to protect their current IP or if they are trying to take ownership of mine I create for the Vendetta game.

I cannot enter into a legal agreement that would bind my present or future ability to create content for fun or profit. I have read a lot of LUAs of various sorts and this is by far the most unreadable I have seen. If someone could explain what it means I might reconsider, but for now I will be content to 'hack' my own plugins out of the present examples. I am not bound to any agreement other than respecting the IP of Vendetta itself based on the EULA we sign every time we log on. However, it makes me think I need to reread that one...

Thanks for inviting me, but until the LUA for PCC is made understandable and not so lawyerease then I must say no thank you.

Well, if they're going to be distributing your content to users, I don't see how they could do anything but take ownership. Do you really expect them to be supporting missions and such that they don't even have the legal right to distribute?

I think Lecter can probably finish off this thread, so I'll leave it to him.

yeah, the bottom line with a legal agreements is this - either you have the balls to say you understand it, you ask a lawyer, or you just trust the writer.

Somehow, I think they'll struggle on without you.

But yeah, my best recollection is that any and all IP rights bound up in anything you make for PCC is transfered to GS. Period, full-stop, no exceptions, no revocation. In this way, they can point to the PCC agreement plus whatever you submitted to GS under its terms should you (or someone you sold work to) later try and claim that GS's use of anything in VO is infringing upon any IP rights you might own (or have sold). That's the "Protect GS from attack for their using your work/derivative works created therefrom" part.

But the PCC agreement (as far as I recall, I'm not re-reading it now) also limits your rights to use/transfer to others any IP rights bound up with anything you made for PCC. This is a "Make GS the exclusive owner/controller of anything made in PCC" part, and it's arguably unnecessary. I suppose they could have worded it as an irrevocable, non-exclusive license instead, meaning that they can do whatever they want with whatever you make in PCC, and you can never take that away from them, but that you can still freely use/let others use that work, too. This still invites problems, though, mainly arising from whether something GS is doing with your PCC work is infringing, say, the derivative work of someone else who is also using something you made for PCC. Is GS's content similar to theirs because of the commonality -- your PCC work -- that they can both use, or is it similar because GS copied something the other guy added to your work (which GS probably cannot do)? It gets messy.

In sum, you can either make stuff for VO freely, or you can sod off. There's no middle ground. If you want to make PCC works, then consider them no different from a work made for hire--you lose all rights to that work, and a subsequent work you do "for fun or profit" cannot infringe on that prior work.

Devs: I checked the PCC forums and couldn't find this agreement... you guys might want to sticky it.

"SIGNMENT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

1. Assignment. For good and valuable consideration, the
receipt of which is acknowledged, the undersigned Assignee
(the "Assignee") assigns to Guild Software Incorporated
(the "Company"), its successors and assigns, exclusively
throughout the world all right, title and interest (choate
or inchoate) in (i) the subject matter referred to in
Exhibit A ("Technology"), (ii) all precursors, portions and
work in progress with respect thereto and all inventions,
works of authorship, mask works, technology, information,
know-how, materials and tools relating thereto or to the
development, support or maintenance thereof, whether past,
present or future, and (iii) all copyrights, patent rights,
trade secret rights, trademark rights, mask works rights,
sui generis database rights and all other intellectual
property rights of any sort and all business, contract
rights, and goodwill in, incorporated or embodied in, used
to develop, or related to any of the foregoing (collectively
"Intellectual Property").

2. Title to Intellectual Property. Assignee represents
and warrants to Company that he or she has full right, power
and authority to make this Assignment in the manner set
forth in this Agreement, and that Assignee is transferring
to Company good and marketable title to the Intellectual
Property, free and clear of all liens, security interests,
claims, interests, options, encumbrances, or indebtedness of
any kind.

3. Perfection of Title. Assignee agrees to assist the
Company in every legal way to evidence, record and perfect
this assignment and to apply for and obtain recordation of
and from time to time enforce, maintain, and defend the
assigned rights.
"

had to go to the communty > pcc

Yeah, that's more or less what I recalled.

Lector,
Thanks for the reply and the down to earth explanation. It was not the conditions, but the fact that I could not completely understand what the conditions were that turned me off.

I have agreements with my current employer of a similar type about inventions, copyrights and such. I also have some IP to my name. If I cannot understand the conditions then I am putting that at risk. This is my attempt at positive feedback to a perceived problem on my part.

Most conditions I have seen for usage of a website, service, or joint effort do not have such a legalese/non-layperson wording. Again, thanks for the information.

As to the other comments about me not understanding the reason for the agreement in the first place: that I do understand. If I gave the impression that I did not understand that point then I did not clearly communicate the issue in the first place. Thanks for your input.

I just reread the EULA for playing the game and it is worded in very easy to understand language. In stark contrast to the one for the PCC.

My guess is that the PCC agreement is less custom and more "LEGAL AGREEMENTS R' US." One glaring omission is the lack of any "including, but not limited to, access to the Player Contribution Corps" clause following the "good and valuable consideration" boilerplate.

Also, this is an assignment of rights, not a EULA; it has to be broader, courts treat it as dealing with more important choices in many ways, and it thus has to contain a bit more "legalese." You aren't asking for "access" but to participate in an activity that will create something that can be argued to have been included in GS's use of work and the IP rights that go with it.

The only thing you'd be "putting at risk" is if you gave your current employer (or used yourself) something arguably infringing on something you made for the PCC. You already face the exact same dilemma with respect to work you make on your own, versus work you made for your current employer (assuming I understand your description of your agreement with that employer correctly)--if you start selling work that's arguably infringing on something you already made for the employer, they might sue you. Whether it actually infringes is, as always, a question for us lawyers (and the judge/jury if it doesn't settle).

That said, this agreement's wording is not that bad. Try reading a Goldman Sachs' securities offering document.

It could very well have been that I attempted to understand it in the middle of the night. Thanks again for your down to earth explanation.