Forums » Suggestions
So as it stands cap ship convoys are drawing traders into grey which is good but they have substantially decreased the pirate trader interaction. Every trader I have seen has been riding in the fully shielded cap ship free from harm and not actually escorting it.
I suggest cap ships in escorts do not have any shielding and an increase in armor to compensate
I suggest cap ships in escorts do not have any shielding and an increase in armor to compensate
The solution to this is easy: anyone who undocks in any moth-class ship while having an active escort mission instantly fails.
I think there is a more reasonable solution: if the pilot taking the mission spends more than 25% (rough figure) of the mission in the capship, the pilot begins to lose "time with the convoy", so the payout becomes significantly less.
Of course, this won't stop traders from taking an escort mission, leaving the group, then riding the capship (or just taking a significantly lower payout on the mission). Honestly, we need a way to stop people from taking escort missions and then leaving the group, hence ending the mission, over and over, until they find an escort that suits them. It's a pretty serious exploit (either as a trader who wants a better payout or as a pirate who wants to kill the voys).
Of course, this won't stop traders from taking an escort mission, leaving the group, then riding the capship (or just taking a significantly lower payout on the mission). Honestly, we need a way to stop people from taking escort missions and then leaving the group, hence ending the mission, over and over, until they find an escort that suits them. It's a pretty serious exploit (either as a trader who wants a better payout or as a pirate who wants to kill the voys).
There is a certain sensibility to parking your precious cargo within the mighty defenses of a CAP ship.
Why not introduce Convoy Placements? There is obviously a Trader desire to be protected, so offer an answer, don't strip them of yet one more layer of opportunity to survive.
A Convoy Placement :
You pay a set fee to join a protected convoy through dangerous space (even more for personal protection).These Bots are slaved to the convoy route and will never travel any other place except along the route. ie. No hiring of 'bodyguards' then heading off elsewhere to fight another player.
"Sorry sir, we're paid to protect the Convoy, nothing else.."
(Vulture flight does not follow you on your unscheduled jump)
From a Trader's point of view, the less "interaction" with pirates, the better. Some folks don't play only to be used as the playthings of other users. Seriously? Your in a dedicated Kill-Craft verses Freighters.. how much easier does it need to become.
Though I agree on finding a method to ensure less abuse of any system. Mission Failure and chunky swipes from Faction bars would make the effort become quite self defeating.
Pirates may need to get organised to take down the large Convoys, instead of just emasculating their defenses further.
Why not introduce Convoy Placements? There is obviously a Trader desire to be protected, so offer an answer, don't strip them of yet one more layer of opportunity to survive.
A Convoy Placement :
You pay a set fee to join a protected convoy through dangerous space (even more for personal protection).These Bots are slaved to the convoy route and will never travel any other place except along the route. ie. No hiring of 'bodyguards' then heading off elsewhere to fight another player.
"Sorry sir, we're paid to protect the Convoy, nothing else.."
(Vulture flight does not follow you on your unscheduled jump)
From a Trader's point of view, the less "interaction" with pirates, the better. Some folks don't play only to be used as the playthings of other users. Seriously? Your in a dedicated Kill-Craft verses Freighters.. how much easier does it need to become.
Though I agree on finding a method to ensure less abuse of any system. Mission Failure and chunky swipes from Faction bars would make the effort become quite self defeating.
Pirates may need to get organised to take down the large Convoys, instead of just emasculating their defenses further.
removing the shields hardly emasculates them connies still have in the millions of armor points. On a side note pirates and traders are supposed to interact but flying around in an unkillable fortress is not good for the game
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/22169?page=1
My posts (my first two) tackle this same issue a little differently as I propose to keep the shields but to reduce the armor. That, and cap ships in convoys should be hella slow. REALLY FUCKING SLOW slow. Bleeding out of your fucking eyeballs slow because as it stands right now having a capital ship in your convoy actually speeds it up as it is too heavy to possibly be slowed down. I also proposed adding players and their cargo capacity to a ship's cargo capacity (i.e. you can't dock if you're in a fully laden moth).
But the slowness and the rest of the nerfs should discourage people using capital ships to trade, I actually wouldn't mind if an XC of Corvus Holo Discs were in the docking bay of a Trident I was blowing up.
My posts (my first two) tackle this same issue a little differently as I propose to keep the shields but to reduce the armor. That, and cap ships in convoys should be hella slow. REALLY FUCKING SLOW slow. Bleeding out of your fucking eyeballs slow because as it stands right now having a capital ship in your convoy actually speeds it up as it is too heavy to possibly be slowed down. I also proposed adding players and their cargo capacity to a ship's cargo capacity (i.e. you can't dock if you're in a fully laden moth).
But the slowness and the rest of the nerfs should discourage people using capital ships to trade, I actually wouldn't mind if an XC of Corvus Holo Discs were in the docking bay of a Trident I was blowing up.
Making cap ships that slow will make cap ship voys a complete waste of time. I'm not spending an hour transporting something for 60k. Infact, I don't want to spend an hour doing one escort mission for any reasonable amount of money, it's bloody boring.
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You could auto-eject players that board with a ship in their own convoy after a few seconds. Give them long enough to repair/reload but don't let them sit in it. Automate the turrets.
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You could auto-eject players that board with a ship in their own convoy after a few seconds. Give them long enough to repair/reload but don't let them sit in it. Automate the turrets.
You all wanted player owned cap ships and now you gripe when people actually use them? What are you going to do when players actually own the cappie, load it up with massive amounts of cargo and start cruising around?
Quit whining and figure out a way to deal with it....
Quit whining and figure out a way to deal with it....
Agreed
devs seem to be fixing the issue with exploiting convoys completely. in the meantime, stop throwing out ways to nerf escorts to the point where they are completely unusable (or arbitrarily weird). think before you post. please.
Double agreed
how is making a completly safe haven for someone just because they have enough money and or resources not a problem? the point is actual interaction between people not oh hey we're in the same sector but i can't shoot you at all because you are in a super fortress. This isn't a suggested nerf at all I never said there should be less rewards but you should be expected to actually escort and not sit in the cappy the whole time.
and I would hardly count pointing out problems in design whining
and I would hardly count pointing out problems in design whining
"..How is making a completly safe haven for someone just because they have enough money and or resources not a problem?..
If I have worked hard enough to afford an XC through Faction and wealth, I utterly deserve to be able to reside inside a Constellation on the odd opportunistic escort run.
Firstly, you don't have much control over there actually being a Constellation spawned for the convoy, and there will be a fix against folks who abuse the escort system. To top that off.. have you even tried parking a heavily laden XC into a Constellation dock? (whilst it is moving and constantly altering it's heading). If you can.. you deserve the free ride. (Or.. if implemented someday.. paid your fare)
Folks can get organised to kill Leviathans, why not CAP ships? This incessant desire (and multiple posts) for neutering of ships which are inherently tough nuts to crack, so a single player can down one, is ridiculous. It leaves open player controlled CAPS being largerly useless Rocket magnets that no sane player would bother building because they're easily destroyed.
Next up.. "Lets blow up Stations.. I loathe it that a Trader can escape to one and wait me out!"
- T.
If I have worked hard enough to afford an XC through Faction and wealth, I utterly deserve to be able to reside inside a Constellation on the odd opportunistic escort run.
Firstly, you don't have much control over there actually being a Constellation spawned for the convoy, and there will be a fix against folks who abuse the escort system. To top that off.. have you even tried parking a heavily laden XC into a Constellation dock? (whilst it is moving and constantly altering it's heading). If you can.. you deserve the free ride. (Or.. if implemented someday.. paid your fare)
Folks can get organised to kill Leviathans, why not CAP ships? This incessant desire (and multiple posts) for neutering of ships which are inherently tough nuts to crack, so a single player can down one, is ridiculous. It leaves open player controlled CAPS being largerly useless Rocket magnets that no sane player would bother building because they're easily destroyed.
Next up.. "Lets blow up Stations.. I loathe it that a Trader can escape to one and wait me out!"
- T.
Once there's a point to killing a cappie, like a trader investing 15 million credits to buy a trident or 50 million to buy a connie, we'll deal. Until then, this hiding your XC in a cast iron cunt for FREE is silly.
Dr.Lecter.. did you even read what it takes just to get your XC into a Constellation? I wouldn't call it an easy thing to pull off., but I won't debate that it's not "Free". Something that can be rectified I'm sure.
For now.. it's terrible that an unarmed cargo hauler is out of your begunned Pirate ships' sights, my sympathies. ;)
I am certain once CAP ships are given to players, there will be methods available to bring them down.
- Taele.
For now.. it's terrible that an unarmed cargo hauler is out of your begunned Pirate ships' sights, my sympathies. ;)
I am certain once CAP ships are given to players, there will be methods available to bring them down.
- Taele.
My problem with people catching free rides on capships is that capships right now are fully automated. You can jump in a connie in a convoy and it will protect you to wherever it is going, without you doing anything, which is most assuredly not the point of escorts. As an interim measure, I would support paying for a berth on the capship, but in the long term I think nobody should be able to dock with an escort capship for more time than it takes to reload and repair. By long term I mean after the introduction of player-owned capships. That way, if you want a well-protected ride through Grey, you need a bunch of other players along to man the turrets, or you're going to be far easier prey.
The current situation is a clear abuse of the escort system, even moreso than taking an escort on your way to trade somewhere (something I, and pretty much everyone, am guilt of). I fully support putting in safeguards to ensure this doesn't happen. Oh, and for the record, since everyone else arguing this side seems to be, I am not a pirate. :P
The current situation is a clear abuse of the escort system, even moreso than taking an escort on your way to trade somewhere (something I, and pretty much everyone, am guilt of). I fully support putting in safeguards to ensure this doesn't happen. Oh, and for the record, since everyone else arguing this side seems to be, I am not a pirate. :P
I agree with peytros:
This isn't a suggested nerf at all I never said there should be less rewards but you should be expected to actually escort and not sit in the cappy the whole time
This isn't a suggested nerf at all I never said there should be less rewards but you should be expected to actually escort and not sit in the cappy the whole time
there will be methods available to bring them down.
How retarded are you? They're not hard to bring down now, merely annoying and time consuming.
And don't whine about your trade ship being unprotected: if you want protection, fly a Taur or a regular Moth with mines. If you want to move 200 cu per trip, shut the fuck up about it being hazardous.
How retarded are you? They're not hard to bring down now, merely annoying and time consuming.
And don't whine about your trade ship being unprotected: if you want protection, fly a Taur or a regular Moth with mines. If you want to move 200 cu per trip, shut the fuck up about it being hazardous.
Hey DrLecter,
A little less of the vitriol, a little more constructive criticsm. I'm being upfront and casual here, replies like that are a quite uncalled for. I'm offering ideas to this issue and agree with 'Free Rides' being a problem, just offering solutions. Also, to not mention the danger already present to traders is to ignore half (even more?) of the reason why a trader player would think up such abuse of the Escort system. So I will not ignore that component of the Pirate/Trader relationship.
My comment on "Bringing them Down" is in answer to some critique that Constellations are veritable fortresses. A point that will become less so as options are made available to players that are at present, as DrLecter put it "..annoying and time consuming"
Personally I suspect Player CAP on NPC CAP action will certainly see this come to about quickly. (Pirate base ship anyone?)which in of itself is an obvious retification.
As for 'Hazardous' of course it is, I'm commenting on the obvious imbalance in defence vs offence between a trader and pirate. A balance that I feel will always (rightly) be in the favour of pirates. I'm by no means complaining, just reitirating this surely this is suffecient enough to really make many "nerf" requests seem moot. Pirate players can take down convoys almost singlehandedly at present.. how much easier must it become? :)
So yes, penalise a escorting player for such acts. Possibly offer a Docking Berth service for a price in future? But changing the abilities of NPCs so players can crack the shell for the fleshy goodeness inside? Seems a bit extreme.
- Taele.
A little less of the vitriol, a little more constructive criticsm. I'm being upfront and casual here, replies like that are a quite uncalled for. I'm offering ideas to this issue and agree with 'Free Rides' being a problem, just offering solutions. Also, to not mention the danger already present to traders is to ignore half (even more?) of the reason why a trader player would think up such abuse of the Escort system. So I will not ignore that component of the Pirate/Trader relationship.
My comment on "Bringing them Down" is in answer to some critique that Constellations are veritable fortresses. A point that will become less so as options are made available to players that are at present, as DrLecter put it "..annoying and time consuming"
Personally I suspect Player CAP on NPC CAP action will certainly see this come to about quickly. (Pirate base ship anyone?)which in of itself is an obvious retification.
As for 'Hazardous' of course it is, I'm commenting on the obvious imbalance in defence vs offence between a trader and pirate. A balance that I feel will always (rightly) be in the favour of pirates. I'm by no means complaining, just reitirating this surely this is suffecient enough to really make many "nerf" requests seem moot. Pirate players can take down convoys almost singlehandedly at present.. how much easier must it become? :)
So yes, penalise a escorting player for such acts. Possibly offer a Docking Berth service for a price in future? But changing the abilities of NPCs so players can crack the shell for the fleshy goodeness inside? Seems a bit extreme.
- Taele.
If you think that docking an XC in a connie is difficult, you probably shouldn't be flying XC's. Just sayin'