i think the main problem is we have a few traders speaking for the whole of them. I find it very funny that people want to fly around in an unarmed unescorted ship and make a lot of money. Simple teamwork and convoys of all players would be much more fun and dynamic. I say make traders and pirates work in teams those who complain that they will leave because they can't solo trade in an XC anymore will and let them. A much more dynamic game will bring in multitudes of players to fill their spots

Like I said. Make it easier for pirates to travel in nationspace without repurcussions (all except station sectors).

That way people are never truly safe unless docking/undocking in a station sector. But it will also make pirates more sparse, so properly conducted trading/mining operations are still possible.

It also means that traders need to think more about paying escorts, and that pirates can do more than just sit in grey waiting for people to stumble onto their porch.

I didnt ask for anything. Yoda was demanding the escorts in nation space be nerfed again....

You are missing my point Lecter. What I believe you and others have been describing in these many threads is a pirate Utopia. A world if you will, where filthy rich over fed traders haul exotic and expensive loot across multiple systems through narrow choke points called worm holes in huge bulky ships with the acceleration of a wet fart. Fine. VO or rather PO should create an environment that is enjoyable if not challenging to all.

However, from my perspective, there isn't much to inspire me to engage in said activity at the moment. Perhaps when the redux is finished I will find myself in trader Utopia.

The only reason I trade these days, is because its either something to do on my way to another destination or to annoy the pirates by proving they can't touch me unless I allow it. So, as you can see, I'm not terribly motivated. Most days I'm perfectly happy to sit and mine while reading- and you guys still can't touch me :p

Keep on pushing that "yay, the universe is too big for anyone to force me to interact with them!" screed, Fluffer. And y'all are already welcome to haul exotic and expensive loot across multiple systems through 1000m diameter spheres called WHs in well-armed, heavily armored ships with acceleration sufficient to escape all but the most lucky of pursuers.

Just don't expect to haul 100, 120, 140, or 200 cus of cargo while you enjoy all those advantages.

But again, let me get this straight: you're whining about Pirates' Utopia while at the same time noting that "nobody can touch me unless I allow it"? Which is it, windbag? Either it's too hard to be a trader, or nobody can catch you.

And where did the Dr. touch you?

*points down* But only because I allowed it

Again, your missing my point. First to address your points.

1) The universe is too big for the current population.
2) I don't expect to safely haul cargo across Lecter infested space :p in a Behemoth.
3) Its not hard to be a trader.
4) It is hard to catch me because I fly carefully and when I'm in an area known to be particularly dangerous, I use the usually unarmed, usually moderately armored ships with kick ass acceleration that allow me to fly past even the most determined Dr's.

Now to try to express my point more clearly.
1) The present condition of the economy and game structure does not motivate me to trade regularly.
2) The honeybee method of trading that has been created is OK, but it does not keep me trading in the same region for very long.
3) I am not a fan of the enhanced trade routes. Unless I am already heading from Odia deep into Serco or Itani space, I do not find the activity enjoyable. I can make the same or better by following a path through VO doing the Honeybee.
4) The poor number and selections of stations in Grey make for poor Honeybee trading, particularly on the Itani side.
5) I WANT to trade in Grey. Long before I created Ret, I was fond of saying that I'd rather be pirated than hit another gd ion storm.
6) I want trade to be interesting, worth logging in for. Worth trying to avoid pirates and failing that, worth paying them. I want trade to create a meaningful activity for my gameplay. Right now, for me, it does not. The best I have to work with is taunting a growingly depleted pirate supply.

"And where did the Dr. touch you?"

He touched my G.I. Joe! And and and ... it made me feel like when Luke Skywalker activated his light saber for the very first time...

The whole point of trade is to make credits, and those aren't useful for much now, so I think you'll be bored for a good long time, Fluffer.

I expect at least until the final changes to the economy are implemented that is likely to be true. I have hope and probably foolish confidence at this point in the final product.

The question at this point becomes 'Am I unique among traders in having this view?' If so then I am nothing more than an out of touch 'windbag'. If I'm not, then all the bitching and moaning and manipulating the game to 'drive traders into Grey' isn't going to produce the desired long term result.

But this is the Pirates Know Best show. No need to ask the traders. They'll just whine and point at the scary guys that go 'Yarrrrr'.

Fluffy, if that's all you're whining about, it's not a trader issue, it's a VO players with lots of credits issue. And that's most of us.

And the Devs have long stated that the game will evolve to force people into Grey. We're just saying it should happen sooner rather than later; whether it happens at all is not now and has never been up for debate.

If people are going to be 'forced into grey' what's the point in nation space?

Restayvien makes a good point here. There is no reason that an Itani military char would go into Grey. For trade and the like, Grey should be the hotspot (illegal or lawless zones always have the most profit if you can survive)... but we should not be forcing EVERYONE into grey.

I didn't read most of this thread, except for what Dr. Lecter wrote, because he makes me laugh.

Regarding the suggestion: Yes, do this. Additionally, make group escort missions exponentially more rewarding, and offer counter missions from grey space stations.

Ex: Dau L11 has an escort mission listed to Odia, which gathers it's group in the same way border war does. The counter mission is listed in D14 sedina and is the "Capture the supplies" type mission. Both missions launch at the same time and rewards are based on how many player and npc kills and/or how much cargo is delivered. Seems to me that with the large border war mission the game functionality is already there. Heck, I bet phaserlight could make this mission in the mission editor.

I should make this a new thread.

Mission editor doesn't let you be that awesome or we would be doing things that awesome.

There is no reason that an Itani military char would go into Grey.

There's also no reason that an Itani military char would be making much money, so I fail to see how this is a problem.

At one point I was an "Itani Military Character", and I swear I spent MOST of my time in grayspace fighting [BLAK].

Of course, then we did not have anything going on in Deneb whatsoever, it was essentially just like another system.

I'll reiterate that the original point of this thread is valid - nationspace does not need escorts. Unless the convoy goes outside of nationspace, there should not be escort missions associated with those convoys.

Though....pirates can still attack inside nation space...

It would be nice if the Inc and co. could hint at their vision of trade in the VO universe. We don't need a timeline or anything, just generally what is intended to happen and maybe what is likely to happen in the next year(s).

Then we can comment on things, and know what things we are complaining about now will be 1) implemented at some point in the near or far future, 2) completely ignored, 3) rendered inconsequential, etc.

As a Serco military, I agree with most is what is said here btw. Escorts inside the dominion are not necessary. Just make sure we have plenty of escorts/voys that pass through/into grey on the way to our weapons/parts suppliers!