Due to regulations, nothing ships in the real world without documentation, which if audited can be traced back to the country of origin, and even then to the country of origin for the raw materials. Since goods that have been stolen will not have this documentation, my proposal is this.

1) Reduce the number of stations willing to buy 'stolen' goods to mostly those placed in Grey space.

2) Discount the amount paid for the 'stolen' goods by around 25-50%.

3) The assumption is that all ores are legitimate sales due to a lack of cost basis for them.

4) If 'stolen' goods are attempted to be sold at an 'honest' station then 10% of the players credits are confiscated, their ship and cargo as well as anything in station hold are confiscated and they are deported to the nearest faction that doesn't hate them.

5) Make some stations shift from 'honest' to 'dishonest' periodically based on the political climate. Subtle hints could be given in the news. 'The governing body of Orion will be making its annual tour of each of their facilities this week..." These stations should typically give closer to 100% of the buy price.

Flame away.

not a flame but most of the time a single behemoth from a convoy only yields around 70k if you where lucky enough to not get hit in the process of liberating its cargo. So I don't like the idea of creating a discount for them.

and to be fair people falsify documents in the real world all the time.

That is a fair point Pey. I was primarily thinking of player loads where most often a pirate would be making significantly more off of the goods even at the discount recommended than the trader would make in profit. Ie. A typical 300,000cr moth tends to yield around 70-80,000cr in profit. Clearly I need to give more consideration to practically applying this to voy kills. Perhaps a price threshold where items under a certain value are not as heavily monitored?

And yes, documents are falsified regularly, particularly in corrupt cultures like the US. My idea was that nation space would be fairly heavily monitored by their respective trade organizations and would for the most part be operating honestly- which was why I suggested that most but not necessarily all of the stations accepting 'stolen' goods be in Grey space.

in regards to player moths maybe, but i think it would be a major hit to piracy because finding a player moth with a load like that takes a lot of time and effort especially if the trader knows what they are doing. making the overall credits per hour not very much. on the other hand i think corvus should always offer full price for all goods stolen or not.

True enough. Don't think I've forgotten what its like. This idea like many others suggested, is for when / if we actually have a real population playing.

Does that mean we'll get the indicator like in NWN: "This merchant will not buy stolen goods." ??

Damn. I'll have to go to one of those "Dishonest" stations...

(That would be awesome and realistic.)

"1) Reduce the number of stations willing to buy 'stolen' goods to mostly those placed in Grey space."

I really like this idea. How about this as far as payment scales go...

Items stolen from>>>>>>>Items sold to>>>>>>>Percentage of value
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dau.......................................Verasi............................-90%*
Sedina...................................Sedina...........................unchanged***
Sol II......................................Eo ................................+25%**
Deneb...................................Pyronis..........................+25%**
Arta Celestis.........................Odia..............................-25-50%
Axia......................................Valent Robotics.............+15**

* -90% of value due to the fact that the items are turn over to the police.
** Percentage goes up, even in the system it was stolen from due to enemy standing.
*** value unchanged because its Grey space, risk of theft is the cost of doing business.

a pirate would be making significantly more off of the goods even at the discount recommended than the trader would make in profit.

Duh, that's the beauty of having no overhead. And this suggestion, given current game mechanics for piracy (repair costs, moths with auto turrets, few PC traders, NPC convoys being guarded by fucking TERRADONS, exorbitant cost of ships in Grey, etc.), is too retarded to bother replying to in detail.

*Teradons.

Agrees with Lecter. God, this is a really dumb ass idea Fluffy.

Ah. So as long as its only the traders that are forced into a 'realistic' model its ok. As soon as its suggested that the pirate community suck up some realism its going to be a 'really dumb ass idea'. I get it now. Actually, I've gotten it all along. After all, this is Pirates Online.

Don't worry Lecter. I will respond for you. You see, it is quite easy to take out a moth and a taur from a convoy without a scratch of damage.

Next if your going to insist on using an X1 to take out a voy then its your own dumbass fault that you have ridiculously high repair bills. The vult 3 and hog 2 are both fine ships and you'll find that they are both quite inexpensive.

By game mechanics, I'm sure you mean the growing advantage to sitting on a wh, since once the sector list goes away, hiding on a roid facing the wh will give you full advantage of anyone entering or leaving the sector.

The lack of PC traders is a real problem, and one that I am beginning to believe will not ever be solved.

But thats ok. Stick to your little hypocritical world view. Its all going to be ok because your a big scary pirate and such.

Ryan,

I like the concept. The only issue I see is in identifying non system specific items.

It is realistic for 'lawful' stations to confiscate stolen goods. It is also very unrealistic to presume that they could tell the difference. I'm not going to walk into a Valent station and be like "Hey look guys, I just blew up a couple moths, you want to buy the cargo?" After liberating a few mothloads of cargo from a convoy, I'm going to move the stuff through a fence, and possibly through several stations. Once we have a realistic model of interacting with merchants on a station, we can start talking about stations being on the watch for stolen goods.

Also, the current economic model makes the trading system incredibly unrealistic, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about..

ladron,

If a player has not paid for the goods at another station, they are presumed stolen because there is no cost base associated with them any longer. Which means you can't prove you bought them, nor that they meet Faction standards. When you are offloading the stolen goods through your 'fence' you are selling them at a discounted price because I'm just certain your middleman is anxious to take a loss for such a good supplier. Hence the whole freaking concept.

What do you not get? Every aspect of the game is a work in progress. The developers are having to find a balance between realism and fantasy in each of those aspects. The good Dr. would cripple anything resembling trade within nation space so that anyone wanting to play that role is forced into Grey- which in itself is unrealistic, so perhaps I should have used 'nerfed up the ass' instead of 'realistic'. My bad. Point is if you disagree with the suggestion, give real reasons why it would detract from rather than enhance gameplay for the associated players.

"it is also very unrealistic to presume that they could tell the difference."

There are ways to explain this away...
1. security reports describing the goods/thief
2. (My favorite)... molecular stamping, ala Firefly
3. serial number
4. Exact chemical make up...
etc... etc...

Those are just the things I could c me up with off the top of my head.