Forums » Suggestions
suggestions from me
Couple of suggestions from a long time MMO vet and long time gamer (since 1978).
The game is good. Interface is beautiful. Grabbed me nicely and has kept me entertained for a few weeks with many months likely. Latency appears non-existent and chat system is solid. My perspective so far is UIT only, and I've traveled to all non-gray systems at least once. My current licenses are 3/3/3/6/6. I've worked my factions up to 300+ in orion, biocom, valent, axia and TPG/UIT to 750+.
I apologize in advance for any suggestions made in ignorance that have either already been implemented (and I haven't seen them) or have already been suggested and rejected. I understand, according to http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/faq_general.html#who that there are exactly 4 developers working on the game.
However... here's my constructive criticism, and entirely my personal, narrow, selfish opinions:
-the front/back radar interface is archaic. Elite and Frontier (Elite II) had a better "3d mapped onto a 2d surface" radar. You should outright copy it. It's superior in many ways to the current in game radar.
-Some of the carrots have too much stick. The advanced mineral scanner and Miner 2 (not Mining License Rank 2, but miner 2) are the foremost offenders. Requiring 15000cu of ore to be mined and sold (and NOT having missions count) is punitive for Basic Miner 2. Requiring 120 prospecting missions (especially for rares/extremely rares) to get a scanner only marginally better is also punitive. Why isn't there something in between? Why not have many types of mineral scanners, some that are faster, some with longer range, some that show mass so the miners can know ahead of time the effect on heat dissipation rate? Regarding Miner 2, have some smaller goalposts along the way, with smaller carrots to encourage the miner to persevere. 15000cu utilizing (at best) 48cu per trip is still 312 trips. Most people won't have the 48cu ship if they're a pure miner, which leaves them with the Atlas at 34cu per trip. 441 trips. Paaaainful. Even trying to find a station with rocks near it that aren't cranked up to 6000K degrees can be challenging, never mind having to jump in/out for every trip just to find 10k temp rocks!
-There are many varieties of particular ships that appear to have so little difference, and yet generally speaking, not that much variety in general. To put this another way, There are 5 types of EC ship you can get, but as soon as you can get something better, you would never use an EC, so why have 5 types? And yet there is only 1 or 2 of the other vastly more attractive ship types, with no apparent reason? In a similar vein, why can't the player trick out their ship EXACTLY the way they want? Specifically adding or removing armor, adding or remove cargo space, adding or removing mounts, adding or removing engines, etc. This would make much more sense than having 5 types of ship you'll never use after the 8 hour trial. And it would allow a level of customization that would (IMHO) make many players very happy. There's also a rather disproportionate jump in cargo space for ships. Going from 48 to 120 or 48 to 200, for example, is a bit too large of a jump. How about some gradual increase in there?
-three distinct and viable lines of progression? (miner, trader, fighter). I've covered this a bit in other topics, but if there are really three viable lines of progression in the VO universe, they all need to receive the same attention and due diligence. If not, it needs to be made clear to the player IN ADVANCE that the other two (non-twitch combat) lines of progression are incomplete, in beta, or in other ways not as viable. To do otherwise is known as "bait-and-switch" and is evil and bad.
-filtering system list (nearest targets). Ok, right now, the 'u' interface (Sensor Log) the Nearby Ships cannot be filtered (by any means I've been able to determine in game). I recognize the ability for an add-on to possibly mitigate some of the problems, but here's the thing: This is the primary means by which players know when other players are near. It needs to be vastly more functional. Specifically, these suggestions would go a long way to making it better; Add the option to remove all *names, that is, remove all NPC's from the list, or only show players. Better yet, have an option to only show hostile targets in the list or only hostile players. Similarly the proximity warning should be customizable to alert only on hostile targets, only on players, or combinations thereof. More on the radar aspect of this below. Right now, player names are pushed to the bottom of the list, with *NPC names always at the top, and there is apparently no way to change this. After seeing the dozen turrets displayed for the dozenth time, I really don't need to see it blocking my view of the important information, that is, a pirate gunning for my ship. It means that you can jump into a system and have to SCROLL this list to even find out of there are enemy players around. This is bad. Bottom line for this item: ALL Player names must be, at the very least, always always always always at the top of the Sensor Logs | Nearby Ships in-game interface/list.
-colorizing of targets on radar. Right, same as above, there needs to be options here. It needs to be possible to filter the radar and modify it so that certain items are colorized by certain criteria. If I only want to see stations and hostile players on my radar, that should be possible. Or just stations, wormholes, jump points and hostile players&NPC's. Similarly, I should be able to add things like Asteroid MASS variation/order of magnitude flagging/detection, or flags to mark asteroids as mined, prospected, high temp or some other way instead of just another gray blob. For targets I should be able to see faction color on the radar, if I want, or even just hostile/friendly based on pre-set conditions. Use the sensor log colors as an option for the faction flagging.
-spinning asteroids/mining risk, mass display. Going to harp on this one last time.. Mass display for asteroids would be a huge boon to miners. Right now, players must eyeball the size of an asteroid to predict the heat transfer rate. While interesting, it ultimately becomes frustrating for a dedicated miner because you end up being less made efficient, despite your best efforts, due to information that is clearly in the game, but not being made available to the player. If you must, add the mass display to the advanced mineral scanner (as much as I hate to recommend that given the absurd requirements to obtain it) as this would be a big enough carrot to warrant the current punitive method of obtaining it. Another nice thing would be if smaller rocks actually cooled down MUCH faster than larger rocks. They _appear_ to cool down _slightly_ faster, but the disparity isn't great enough, currently, compared to the truly monstrous rocks. This would make it useful to have them hanging around rather than just wastes of polygons. For that matter, the heat-up and cool-down rate by variation/order of magnitude in mass needs to be tweaked considerably. If they're different, make them REALLY different. Right now, not enough disparity. Ah, and finally, the spinning factor. I get that certain asteroids are set to spin. That's great, adds atmosphere and challenge to mining them. However, it would be better if the spin rates varied, if the spinning actually moved around from one asteroid to another, and if there was an inherent bonus to mining spinning asteroids. Right now, it's a curiosity (potentially a deadly one for noobs) and not much else. It also appears terribly contrived when it's the same asteroid spinning at the same rate for days/weeks on end. At least change the spinners during an update?
-mining stations with no NPC/drone miners? It seems odd that mining stations don't have NPC miners actually mining asteroids near them. If the stations are entirely at the mercy of players, the prices should be vastly higher for ores, everywhere, in the entire VO universe. Also, if miners are meant to be a viable "profession" or progression path, then mining should be such that there should be persistent, real and devastating shortages for certain types of ore rather than just infinite quantities available at all mining stations for trivial amounts of money with no visual indication of the mining/ore collection going on. To the point where players would see fluctuating REPAIR prices depending on the scarcity of ore after being consumed in certain systems.
-dying in home space. A quick comment on this one. During my 8 hours of trial time, I was killed twice in home space, and attacked 4 times total by green dots on my radar. This is fundamentally broken in many ways, which I'm not going to bother enumerating because it'll just turn into a massive rant about broken mechanics and internally inconsistent gameplay aspects. I'll cover this more in other topics that are tangents to this one. And I'll mention this for the twitch combat fanbois: The longevity of any MMO is dependant on subscribers. Subscribers will not pay to be victims 100% (or even 51%) of the time. It has to be balanced. If you think this game will survive indefinitely with one playstyle and furballs in one system, your perspective is limited, short-sighted, and will doom this game to mediocrity & failure in the long term. It has happened now, (since 1997) over a dozen times with vastly larger and more successful MMO's. /dismount soapbox
-faction system. The faction system appears good on the surface, but I'll relate my observations and opinions and you can ignore/believe them as you wish. I have seen players abusing the faction system. Specifically, I've seen players casually kill ME in UIT controlled space, and they are UIT aligned. In fact, I've now been attacked everywhere except in NFZ's. Uh... ok, so is that the only "safe" place in the entire game? Doesn't UIT monitored and UIT guarded actually mean something? Don't those ridiculous number of turrets do anything? Why are there station guards and all this other STUFF related to faction and "space security" in the game if it doesn't mean or do anything? Seriously, if any player has attacked another player for ANY reason, they should NEVER EVER. EVER. show up as green on my radar. And if there are supposed to be serious consequences for blowing the crap out of your allies in allied monitored/guarded/controlled space, you need to make them serious. As in, if a player is respected or admired, and they are killed by an ally? That ally needs to go to -400 or lower, R.F.N., with EVERY faction I am respected or admired by. No delays, no second chances. Second time? max negative. -800 or more. Either make the faction system mean something, or take it out. If it can be trivially abused, having it in place is a waste of resources at best, and an insult to paying customers at worst. The last word on this: I've been attacked at a station, seen the player flag as red on the radar, seen them go inside, come out, and be flagged green. Say what? Huhn? How?
-intended audience. There appears to be some disparity in what audience is intended to be subscribing to the game. On one hand, every bit of text you can read about the game says it's "twitch combat" based and so would generally appeal to a narrower niche market of "furball fliers" who want instant kill gratification and FPS type game play. However, the game also has trading and mining components to it, which are diametrically opposed in both philosophy and gameplay with "twitch combat". Ok, fair enough, it's your bytes to code and your game, but it would appear to be a disservice to the larger/wider/paying audience to NOT have a game in which all three paths are ultimately viable in some way. For example, while there is considerably depth of play to combat, there is vastly less in mining, and still less in trading. What about the option to hire an escort for your trading? What about hiring NPC traders to fly routes for you? How about AI mining drones that provide ore for you at a particular cost in a particular system, with all the risks that go with it? The bottom line: If the primary audience for the game is twitch PvP and you only want twitch PvP players in the game, then take out mining and trading and force everyone into PvP. Make advancement via PvP only. Don't do this half-assed, it just insults and abuses everyone who isn't on that primary path.
-LUA tools? There are a number of mods/add-ons that have been written, I've looked through the code of a few of them. I've written mods like this myself for Warhammer Online using a similar style of coding, so I'm familiar with the system. However, there doesn't appear (and I admit, I haven't really looked that hard) to be a plethora of available information in this area. If you really want players to be writing add-ons, you need to make it drop-dead easy. As in, here's 4 or 5 sample mods, modify them to suit your purposes, here's the fully documented API with all system calls, all events, all globals, all interface elements, everything in excruciating (and maintained!) detail. Yes, a tall order, I admit, but doing it half-assed is worse. Again, I apologize if this information is openly/freely available and I've missed it somewhere.
-cargo space bug. This one has hit me several times in the past week or two. I'll be mining, jettison some cargo, continue to mine, but after some arbitrary additional cargo amount, the game says "your cargo bay is full" when it's not full. (it shows... say 13/34 or 30/48). I've even jettisoned all my cargo, started mining again, and the problem is WORSE. It shows full at 8/34 or 12/48. The only solution is to relog which magically makes the "missing" space recover and all is well again. Sometimes invisible cargo shows up!? But of course, for certain missions, you really don't want to logout, so this is a bad thing. Definitely reproduceable and related to mining & jettison actions.
-flight ai bug (training grounds, station guards). Right now, today, the bots in the UIT training facility in DAU J-7 are all piled up together, continue to pile up together, explode and generally look very silly and unpolished. Similarly, there are a variety of stations within UIT space where the station guards are "stuck" on stations (apparently trying to get in to dock?) but never actually finding their way, for hours on end.
-AI ships/drones. The collector bots (dentek, orun, artemis, etc) have good/reasonable AI. They're primary focus is on "collecting" but they will attack when provoked. Ok, so, in other words, non-aggro NPC's with social tendencies. Great. However, the "guardian" bots are just... ridiculous in comparison. 100% aggro, chase you forever, no regard for collective safety, the most vengeful absurd hunter killers imaginable. And this is the FIRST grade of aggro bots for the noobs to cut their teeth on?! Riiight. Ok, there needs to be a vastly more gradual introduction until you start throwing hunter-seeker chase-you-forever assassin bots of doom at the player. The ApuTech-5 Guardian is the most horrific offender in this category. They will chase a player immediately upon jumping into a system until the 5k limit with absolutely no thought to returning to protect the collectors. If the player encroaches 1 meter on the 5k limit, they will again chase you until your energy is exhausted. AND they move instantly at 180m/s and never appear to run out of energy. Sit still for more than 1 second? You're dust and vapor, pal! Riiiight. There are a near infinite number of variations in AI that exist between "I'm completely passive and will not move even if you're killing me right now" and "I will sacrifice all to chase you forever and kill you and your entire family". It would be nice to see some of that variation in the bot AI. How about they give up BEFORE the 5k limit? How about they give up and protect the other bots after they move more than 1, 2 or 3k away? The FIRST rank of Advanced Combat Training missions asks you to go out and kill ApuTech-5 guardians as a bonus to killing Dentech/Orun collectors. Sure, why not, it's just an instant death sentence for the first time player, what could go wrong? :P
The game is good. Interface is beautiful. Grabbed me nicely and has kept me entertained for a few weeks with many months likely. Latency appears non-existent and chat system is solid. My perspective so far is UIT only, and I've traveled to all non-gray systems at least once. My current licenses are 3/3/3/6/6. I've worked my factions up to 300+ in orion, biocom, valent, axia and TPG/UIT to 750+.
I apologize in advance for any suggestions made in ignorance that have either already been implemented (and I haven't seen them) or have already been suggested and rejected. I understand, according to http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/faq_general.html#who that there are exactly 4 developers working on the game.
However... here's my constructive criticism, and entirely my personal, narrow, selfish opinions:
-the front/back radar interface is archaic. Elite and Frontier (Elite II) had a better "3d mapped onto a 2d surface" radar. You should outright copy it. It's superior in many ways to the current in game radar.
-Some of the carrots have too much stick. The advanced mineral scanner and Miner 2 (not Mining License Rank 2, but miner 2) are the foremost offenders. Requiring 15000cu of ore to be mined and sold (and NOT having missions count) is punitive for Basic Miner 2. Requiring 120 prospecting missions (especially for rares/extremely rares) to get a scanner only marginally better is also punitive. Why isn't there something in between? Why not have many types of mineral scanners, some that are faster, some with longer range, some that show mass so the miners can know ahead of time the effect on heat dissipation rate? Regarding Miner 2, have some smaller goalposts along the way, with smaller carrots to encourage the miner to persevere. 15000cu utilizing (at best) 48cu per trip is still 312 trips. Most people won't have the 48cu ship if they're a pure miner, which leaves them with the Atlas at 34cu per trip. 441 trips. Paaaainful. Even trying to find a station with rocks near it that aren't cranked up to 6000K degrees can be challenging, never mind having to jump in/out for every trip just to find 10k temp rocks!
-There are many varieties of particular ships that appear to have so little difference, and yet generally speaking, not that much variety in general. To put this another way, There are 5 types of EC ship you can get, but as soon as you can get something better, you would never use an EC, so why have 5 types? And yet there is only 1 or 2 of the other vastly more attractive ship types, with no apparent reason? In a similar vein, why can't the player trick out their ship EXACTLY the way they want? Specifically adding or removing armor, adding or remove cargo space, adding or removing mounts, adding or removing engines, etc. This would make much more sense than having 5 types of ship you'll never use after the 8 hour trial. And it would allow a level of customization that would (IMHO) make many players very happy. There's also a rather disproportionate jump in cargo space for ships. Going from 48 to 120 or 48 to 200, for example, is a bit too large of a jump. How about some gradual increase in there?
-three distinct and viable lines of progression? (miner, trader, fighter). I've covered this a bit in other topics, but if there are really three viable lines of progression in the VO universe, they all need to receive the same attention and due diligence. If not, it needs to be made clear to the player IN ADVANCE that the other two (non-twitch combat) lines of progression are incomplete, in beta, or in other ways not as viable. To do otherwise is known as "bait-and-switch" and is evil and bad.
-filtering system list (nearest targets). Ok, right now, the 'u' interface (Sensor Log) the Nearby Ships cannot be filtered (by any means I've been able to determine in game). I recognize the ability for an add-on to possibly mitigate some of the problems, but here's the thing: This is the primary means by which players know when other players are near. It needs to be vastly more functional. Specifically, these suggestions would go a long way to making it better; Add the option to remove all *names, that is, remove all NPC's from the list, or only show players. Better yet, have an option to only show hostile targets in the list or only hostile players. Similarly the proximity warning should be customizable to alert only on hostile targets, only on players, or combinations thereof. More on the radar aspect of this below. Right now, player names are pushed to the bottom of the list, with *NPC names always at the top, and there is apparently no way to change this. After seeing the dozen turrets displayed for the dozenth time, I really don't need to see it blocking my view of the important information, that is, a pirate gunning for my ship. It means that you can jump into a system and have to SCROLL this list to even find out of there are enemy players around. This is bad. Bottom line for this item: ALL Player names must be, at the very least, always always always always at the top of the Sensor Logs | Nearby Ships in-game interface/list.
-colorizing of targets on radar. Right, same as above, there needs to be options here. It needs to be possible to filter the radar and modify it so that certain items are colorized by certain criteria. If I only want to see stations and hostile players on my radar, that should be possible. Or just stations, wormholes, jump points and hostile players&NPC's. Similarly, I should be able to add things like Asteroid MASS variation/order of magnitude flagging/detection, or flags to mark asteroids as mined, prospected, high temp or some other way instead of just another gray blob. For targets I should be able to see faction color on the radar, if I want, or even just hostile/friendly based on pre-set conditions. Use the sensor log colors as an option for the faction flagging.
-spinning asteroids/mining risk, mass display. Going to harp on this one last time.. Mass display for asteroids would be a huge boon to miners. Right now, players must eyeball the size of an asteroid to predict the heat transfer rate. While interesting, it ultimately becomes frustrating for a dedicated miner because you end up being less made efficient, despite your best efforts, due to information that is clearly in the game, but not being made available to the player. If you must, add the mass display to the advanced mineral scanner (as much as I hate to recommend that given the absurd requirements to obtain it) as this would be a big enough carrot to warrant the current punitive method of obtaining it. Another nice thing would be if smaller rocks actually cooled down MUCH faster than larger rocks. They _appear_ to cool down _slightly_ faster, but the disparity isn't great enough, currently, compared to the truly monstrous rocks. This would make it useful to have them hanging around rather than just wastes of polygons. For that matter, the heat-up and cool-down rate by variation/order of magnitude in mass needs to be tweaked considerably. If they're different, make them REALLY different. Right now, not enough disparity. Ah, and finally, the spinning factor. I get that certain asteroids are set to spin. That's great, adds atmosphere and challenge to mining them. However, it would be better if the spin rates varied, if the spinning actually moved around from one asteroid to another, and if there was an inherent bonus to mining spinning asteroids. Right now, it's a curiosity (potentially a deadly one for noobs) and not much else. It also appears terribly contrived when it's the same asteroid spinning at the same rate for days/weeks on end. At least change the spinners during an update?
-mining stations with no NPC/drone miners? It seems odd that mining stations don't have NPC miners actually mining asteroids near them. If the stations are entirely at the mercy of players, the prices should be vastly higher for ores, everywhere, in the entire VO universe. Also, if miners are meant to be a viable "profession" or progression path, then mining should be such that there should be persistent, real and devastating shortages for certain types of ore rather than just infinite quantities available at all mining stations for trivial amounts of money with no visual indication of the mining/ore collection going on. To the point where players would see fluctuating REPAIR prices depending on the scarcity of ore after being consumed in certain systems.
-dying in home space. A quick comment on this one. During my 8 hours of trial time, I was killed twice in home space, and attacked 4 times total by green dots on my radar. This is fundamentally broken in many ways, which I'm not going to bother enumerating because it'll just turn into a massive rant about broken mechanics and internally inconsistent gameplay aspects. I'll cover this more in other topics that are tangents to this one. And I'll mention this for the twitch combat fanbois: The longevity of any MMO is dependant on subscribers. Subscribers will not pay to be victims 100% (or even 51%) of the time. It has to be balanced. If you think this game will survive indefinitely with one playstyle and furballs in one system, your perspective is limited, short-sighted, and will doom this game to mediocrity & failure in the long term. It has happened now, (since 1997) over a dozen times with vastly larger and more successful MMO's. /dismount soapbox
-faction system. The faction system appears good on the surface, but I'll relate my observations and opinions and you can ignore/believe them as you wish. I have seen players abusing the faction system. Specifically, I've seen players casually kill ME in UIT controlled space, and they are UIT aligned. In fact, I've now been attacked everywhere except in NFZ's. Uh... ok, so is that the only "safe" place in the entire game? Doesn't UIT monitored and UIT guarded actually mean something? Don't those ridiculous number of turrets do anything? Why are there station guards and all this other STUFF related to faction and "space security" in the game if it doesn't mean or do anything? Seriously, if any player has attacked another player for ANY reason, they should NEVER EVER. EVER. show up as green on my radar. And if there are supposed to be serious consequences for blowing the crap out of your allies in allied monitored/guarded/controlled space, you need to make them serious. As in, if a player is respected or admired, and they are killed by an ally? That ally needs to go to -400 or lower, R.F.N., with EVERY faction I am respected or admired by. No delays, no second chances. Second time? max negative. -800 or more. Either make the faction system mean something, or take it out. If it can be trivially abused, having it in place is a waste of resources at best, and an insult to paying customers at worst. The last word on this: I've been attacked at a station, seen the player flag as red on the radar, seen them go inside, come out, and be flagged green. Say what? Huhn? How?
-intended audience. There appears to be some disparity in what audience is intended to be subscribing to the game. On one hand, every bit of text you can read about the game says it's "twitch combat" based and so would generally appeal to a narrower niche market of "furball fliers" who want instant kill gratification and FPS type game play. However, the game also has trading and mining components to it, which are diametrically opposed in both philosophy and gameplay with "twitch combat". Ok, fair enough, it's your bytes to code and your game, but it would appear to be a disservice to the larger/wider/paying audience to NOT have a game in which all three paths are ultimately viable in some way. For example, while there is considerably depth of play to combat, there is vastly less in mining, and still less in trading. What about the option to hire an escort for your trading? What about hiring NPC traders to fly routes for you? How about AI mining drones that provide ore for you at a particular cost in a particular system, with all the risks that go with it? The bottom line: If the primary audience for the game is twitch PvP and you only want twitch PvP players in the game, then take out mining and trading and force everyone into PvP. Make advancement via PvP only. Don't do this half-assed, it just insults and abuses everyone who isn't on that primary path.
-LUA tools? There are a number of mods/add-ons that have been written, I've looked through the code of a few of them. I've written mods like this myself for Warhammer Online using a similar style of coding, so I'm familiar with the system. However, there doesn't appear (and I admit, I haven't really looked that hard) to be a plethora of available information in this area. If you really want players to be writing add-ons, you need to make it drop-dead easy. As in, here's 4 or 5 sample mods, modify them to suit your purposes, here's the fully documented API with all system calls, all events, all globals, all interface elements, everything in excruciating (and maintained!) detail. Yes, a tall order, I admit, but doing it half-assed is worse. Again, I apologize if this information is openly/freely available and I've missed it somewhere.
-cargo space bug. This one has hit me several times in the past week or two. I'll be mining, jettison some cargo, continue to mine, but after some arbitrary additional cargo amount, the game says "your cargo bay is full" when it's not full. (it shows... say 13/34 or 30/48). I've even jettisoned all my cargo, started mining again, and the problem is WORSE. It shows full at 8/34 or 12/48. The only solution is to relog which magically makes the "missing" space recover and all is well again. Sometimes invisible cargo shows up!? But of course, for certain missions, you really don't want to logout, so this is a bad thing. Definitely reproduceable and related to mining & jettison actions.
-flight ai bug (training grounds, station guards). Right now, today, the bots in the UIT training facility in DAU J-7 are all piled up together, continue to pile up together, explode and generally look very silly and unpolished. Similarly, there are a variety of stations within UIT space where the station guards are "stuck" on stations (apparently trying to get in to dock?) but never actually finding their way, for hours on end.
-AI ships/drones. The collector bots (dentek, orun, artemis, etc) have good/reasonable AI. They're primary focus is on "collecting" but they will attack when provoked. Ok, so, in other words, non-aggro NPC's with social tendencies. Great. However, the "guardian" bots are just... ridiculous in comparison. 100% aggro, chase you forever, no regard for collective safety, the most vengeful absurd hunter killers imaginable. And this is the FIRST grade of aggro bots for the noobs to cut their teeth on?! Riiight. Ok, there needs to be a vastly more gradual introduction until you start throwing hunter-seeker chase-you-forever assassin bots of doom at the player. The ApuTech-5 Guardian is the most horrific offender in this category. They will chase a player immediately upon jumping into a system until the 5k limit with absolutely no thought to returning to protect the collectors. If the player encroaches 1 meter on the 5k limit, they will again chase you until your energy is exhausted. AND they move instantly at 180m/s and never appear to run out of energy. Sit still for more than 1 second? You're dust and vapor, pal! Riiiight. There are a near infinite number of variations in AI that exist between "I'm completely passive and will not move even if you're killing me right now" and "I will sacrifice all to chase you forever and kill you and your entire family". It would be nice to see some of that variation in the bot AI. How about they give up BEFORE the 5k limit? How about they give up and protect the other bots after they move more than 1, 2 or 3k away? The FIRST rank of Advanced Combat Training missions asks you to go out and kill ApuTech-5 guardians as a bonus to killing Dentech/Orun collectors. Sure, why not, it's just an instant death sentence for the first time player, what could go wrong? :P
wow. might have been better to cover a few of these in different threads. but hey, you're new, so... here goes:
radar: could you post pics or something? the radar has been fine for me... would be nice to see what is so drastically better. also, they can't outright copy. that IP infringement (Dr. Lecter will rip you to shreds on this).
carrots/stick: yah, some of the things in the game take forever. But people do them over longs periods of time. People don't tend to just complete the 120 prospecting missions all at once, but rather spread them out. If things were much easier to get... there'd be very little to do once you got them. Or rather, there need to be some things out there that take awhile to get in light of no cappies or the like atm.
ship variants: when you start out, you want the different ship variants. And it is easy for the devs to make new ship variants. User-customized ships would completely unbalance the game as it currently is, but hell, I think everyone has thought something along those lines at one point or another. You have yet to try PvP is my guess. The ship variants will start making a lot more sense once you start getting into PvP combat.
lines of progression: few people mine. its boring. it doesn't get you that rich. people just don't do it. find something more fun to do. how is it a bait and switch? you try out mining, realize there isn't much fun to be had, and do something else. Trade on the other hand... is much more lucrative, and far more interesting (especially when pirates and the like get involved).
sector list: please, please PLEASE do a search on the forums before you do suggestions. the sector list is being revamped. I'm sure Miharu will link you... I'm too lazy to (just use the search and look for "sector list" or "nearby ships"). Also, there are plugins. use them.
radar color: use the makefriends plugin. it does much of what you want. I think the radar is currently being revamped a bit as well.
Mass display: that's a good one. make a separate suggestion for it so it has a chance of getting implemented (very few people will read this whole thread). before you do, make sure to see that no one has done it already.
NPC miners: sure, whatever. more NPC people... no problem. make a separate thread for that if you want it. re higher prices... the devs are re-imagining the economy as we speak. make a separate suggestion for that.
killed in nation-space: as I said, the devs are re-working this. of course, you'll get the hang of who is a baddie soon enough though. viperguild.com/wiki will help with that. Also, how the hell can the radar tell if a human player has bad intentions? it cant. if its an NPC... then that's the first I've heard of that happening. File a bug report.
faction system: my god. read the previous posts from the devs or USE THE DAMNED SEARCH feature. it's being re-done. as we speak. there have been countless threads on it. fail.
intended audience: you're rehashing earlier points here. you want more economic incentives and mining bonuses. sure. make a new thread for it.
cargo full bug: its a bug. post it to the bug forum. you'll notice someone already has posted it there. might want to comment on that thread instead of mentioning it in an absurdly long suggestions thread.
ai bug: again, its a bug. what is it doing here?
guardians: they suck. kill tycorps. as soon as a newb starts asking about them, everyone one 100 tells them to kill tycorps. was that really so hard?
you have some good ideas here. read the previous posts and use the search feature next time. also, post bugs in the bugs forum (duh). Aside from all that, good to have you here, and hope you continue to subscribe (and not to mention tell your friends).
radar: could you post pics or something? the radar has been fine for me... would be nice to see what is so drastically better. also, they can't outright copy. that IP infringement (Dr. Lecter will rip you to shreds on this).
carrots/stick: yah, some of the things in the game take forever. But people do them over longs periods of time. People don't tend to just complete the 120 prospecting missions all at once, but rather spread them out. If things were much easier to get... there'd be very little to do once you got them. Or rather, there need to be some things out there that take awhile to get in light of no cappies or the like atm.
ship variants: when you start out, you want the different ship variants. And it is easy for the devs to make new ship variants. User-customized ships would completely unbalance the game as it currently is, but hell, I think everyone has thought something along those lines at one point or another. You have yet to try PvP is my guess. The ship variants will start making a lot more sense once you start getting into PvP combat.
lines of progression: few people mine. its boring. it doesn't get you that rich. people just don't do it. find something more fun to do. how is it a bait and switch? you try out mining, realize there isn't much fun to be had, and do something else. Trade on the other hand... is much more lucrative, and far more interesting (especially when pirates and the like get involved).
sector list: please, please PLEASE do a search on the forums before you do suggestions. the sector list is being revamped. I'm sure Miharu will link you... I'm too lazy to (just use the search and look for "sector list" or "nearby ships"). Also, there are plugins. use them.
radar color: use the makefriends plugin. it does much of what you want. I think the radar is currently being revamped a bit as well.
Mass display: that's a good one. make a separate suggestion for it so it has a chance of getting implemented (very few people will read this whole thread). before you do, make sure to see that no one has done it already.
NPC miners: sure, whatever. more NPC people... no problem. make a separate thread for that if you want it. re higher prices... the devs are re-imagining the economy as we speak. make a separate suggestion for that.
killed in nation-space: as I said, the devs are re-working this. of course, you'll get the hang of who is a baddie soon enough though. viperguild.com/wiki will help with that. Also, how the hell can the radar tell if a human player has bad intentions? it cant. if its an NPC... then that's the first I've heard of that happening. File a bug report.
faction system: my god. read the previous posts from the devs or USE THE DAMNED SEARCH feature. it's being re-done. as we speak. there have been countless threads on it. fail.
intended audience: you're rehashing earlier points here. you want more economic incentives and mining bonuses. sure. make a new thread for it.
cargo full bug: its a bug. post it to the bug forum. you'll notice someone already has posted it there. might want to comment on that thread instead of mentioning it in an absurdly long suggestions thread.
ai bug: again, its a bug. what is it doing here?
guardians: they suck. kill tycorps. as soon as a newb starts asking about them, everyone one 100 tells them to kill tycorps. was that really so hard?
you have some good ideas here. read the previous posts and use the search feature next time. also, post bugs in the bugs forum (duh). Aside from all that, good to have you here, and hope you continue to subscribe (and not to mention tell your friends).
I got bored, so here are some nice links you will want to read:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7692
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/16468
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15706
Of course, there are many, many more, but these will get you started.
also, not to mention:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
that has a lot of information that's worth reading before posting...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7692
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/16468
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15706
Of course, there are many, many more, but these will get you started.
also, not to mention:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
that has a lot of information that's worth reading before posting...
From what i understand devs aren't supporting lua too much right now because they simply don't have time (not unusual for any aspect of the game really)
Doing it half assed in this case is not worse, devs might not have time to do it right but why not let us work with what we have?
They already use lua for pretty much all user interface so it was really easy for them to make plugins possible.
You might want to look at the unofficial, player run, lua api
Doing it half assed in this case is not worse, devs might not have time to do it right but why not let us work with what we have?
They already use lua for pretty much all user interface so it was really easy for them to make plugins possible.
You might want to look at the unofficial, player run, lua api
Turns out, people that've played games since 1978 aren't any more knowledgeable or insightful about games than the people that have the unfortunate handicap of only playing them since 2008! What a shock!
waaaaaaaaaaaaay tl; dr
Lecter, you're very useful. You say what I think, so I don't have to. I should buy you a drink some time.
r95acq536jk0w86z: I appreciate the post, and the time taken to write it, although I haven't had a chance to completely read it yet. Don't mind our jaded vets, who have been discussing much of this to death for some years.
jaded vets or trolls...
I took the time to read the entire thing. Much of what you want exists in some form through plugins like targetless and pirate tookit, customHUD, and countless other good ones. Take some time to explore the community projects thread.
Also, the wiki really helped me get a grasp of this game, especially with the lua and understanding variants and bots (http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
You also did make some really good suggestions that deserve a separate thread. I know Incarnate is eager for feedback on the newbie experience, and if you read some of the newsposts theres a lot going on right now thats going to make mining, manufacturing, and trading more important. And faction redux. It just takes time to implement without fucking up game mechanics.
I took the time to read the entire thing. Much of what you want exists in some form through plugins like targetless and pirate tookit, customHUD, and countless other good ones. Take some time to explore the community projects thread.
Also, the wiki really helped me get a grasp of this game, especially with the lua and understanding variants and bots (http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
You also did make some really good suggestions that deserve a separate thread. I know Incarnate is eager for feedback on the newbie experience, and if you read some of the newsposts theres a lot going on right now thats going to make mining, manufacturing, and trading more important. And faction redux. It just takes time to implement without fucking up game mechanics.
Yes, by all means, chop that piece of shit text-block up into easily trollab . . . er, digestible . . . pieces for me.
PLS HNDL. THX.
PLS HNDL. THX.
I'm a jaded vet, trolling. Yay Synthesis.
I read the entire post now, though, and I have to echo my predecessors, especially Rejected. Convert the new ideas into individual threads. Other than that, you have my full respect for a) being able to spell, b) being realistic in your suggestions and c) not being younger than me.
Edit: Curses! *shakes wizened fist at Lecter*
I read the entire post now, though, and I have to echo my predecessors, especially Rejected. Convert the new ideas into individual threads. Other than that, you have my full respect for a) being able to spell, b) being realistic in your suggestions and c) not being younger than me.
Edit: Curses! *shakes wizened fist at Lecter*
Jesus Christ, get this guy a focus group to chair.
(Most sound good, tho, but like my GREAT BUDDY Doc Lecter, too long, didn't read.)
(Most sound good, tho, but like my GREAT BUDDY Doc Lecter, too long, didn't read.)
I think everyone should write posts this long so we get our trolling Jaded vets to stay STFU. Excellent post. Doesn't matter if it is repetitious. Incarnate is reading it. His is ultimately the only opinion that matters.
Love the remark to just copy the whole damn thing ("You should outright copy it.") about the radar. Who gives a shit that Lecter might object? Lecter's only original post was to whine that his pvp stats didn't update on the website. Whah, whah, whah.
This post is really the sort of micro-analysis this game needs.
I don't agree that some of the obstructions are punitive. Miner 2 is a long slog, but living in the ever muddy PNW its not much different. I also disagree that the mixture of game play styles possible in VO is an impediment to VO players. It is the mixtures of game play that makes VO exhilarating. Not knowing when I jump into a system or sector if I will survive till the next jump or station is what keeps me coming back. I don't know what NFZs this user has flown in but I've been killed in several so I don't even count them as safe anymore. I hate getting blown up. I get pissed off. I try to get even. Right now I mostly get blasted to S**t when I try. But I don;t think its the fault of the players or the game. I'm still a noob. Only been playing a couple months. But when i hear people complain in game I just encourage them to start a list of who they want to get even with. And then practice.
There isnt a real rhyme or reason about the bots. The guardians take forever to kill and only give a little reward in level improvement. The assaults die quicker and give more. But there aren't any bots I fear anymore. And when they kill me I keep playing.
I think what will keep this game from dying is that the developers are actively involved in making it better. In the two months Ive been playing Ive made pointed out three bugs that have been fixed or improved. This has its pluses and minuses. Its great that the Devs are paying attention even to the very new, but it can mean that long range goals and improvement can get left aside. I imagine that much of what this user points out is already on the devs TODO list and anything that is mentioned in this post that hasn't been previously mentioned is on their TODO list now.
I hope I meet this user in game. I would enjoy taking down a few queens with her/him
Love the remark to just copy the whole damn thing ("You should outright copy it.") about the radar. Who gives a shit that Lecter might object? Lecter's only original post was to whine that his pvp stats didn't update on the website. Whah, whah, whah.
This post is really the sort of micro-analysis this game needs.
I don't agree that some of the obstructions are punitive. Miner 2 is a long slog, but living in the ever muddy PNW its not much different. I also disagree that the mixture of game play styles possible in VO is an impediment to VO players. It is the mixtures of game play that makes VO exhilarating. Not knowing when I jump into a system or sector if I will survive till the next jump or station is what keeps me coming back. I don't know what NFZs this user has flown in but I've been killed in several so I don't even count them as safe anymore. I hate getting blown up. I get pissed off. I try to get even. Right now I mostly get blasted to S**t when I try. But I don;t think its the fault of the players or the game. I'm still a noob. Only been playing a couple months. But when i hear people complain in game I just encourage them to start a list of who they want to get even with. And then practice.
There isnt a real rhyme or reason about the bots. The guardians take forever to kill and only give a little reward in level improvement. The assaults die quicker and give more. But there aren't any bots I fear anymore. And when they kill me I keep playing.
I think what will keep this game from dying is that the developers are actively involved in making it better. In the two months Ive been playing Ive made pointed out three bugs that have been fixed or improved. This has its pluses and minuses. Its great that the Devs are paying attention even to the very new, but it can mean that long range goals and improvement can get left aside. I imagine that much of what this user points out is already on the devs TODO list and anything that is mentioned in this post that hasn't been previously mentioned is on their TODO list now.
I hope I meet this user in game. I would enjoy taking down a few queens with her/him
Yay, you fed the troll.
Inc: although I haven't had a chance to completely read it yet
BJB: Incarnate is reading it.
Why am I not surprised that ole BJB is the sort to take politeness waaaaaaay too literally.
And if you had half a brain, you'd understand that the issue was whether copying the radar would expose Guild Software to copyright infringment liability -- not whether I'd point out, in a less than polite manner, why that might be the case (as one of two resident lawyers, and the only one I know to still be active, I tend to get invoked on these issues--I actually doubt that copying the fundamentals of their radar system would pose a problem, so long as the graphics were not the same).
BJB: Incarnate is reading it.
Why am I not surprised that ole BJB is the sort to take politeness waaaaaaay too literally.
And if you had half a brain, you'd understand that the issue was whether copying the radar would expose Guild Software to copyright infringment liability -- not whether I'd point out, in a less than polite manner, why that might be the case (as one of two resident lawyers, and the only one I know to still be active, I tend to get invoked on these issues--I actually doubt that copying the fundamentals of their radar system would pose a problem, so long as the graphics were not the same).
I'm not any more concerned about copyright infringement on Elite's design (as far as radar goes) than I was about using the other "X-Wing" type design (front/back hemisphere) we currently use. It's not a legal thing, it's just a development time thing. Back in 2002 or thereabouts, we talked about having several selectable radar display options, but we never had time to implement more than the one.
Also, I was not simply being polite in my response, I genuinely appreciate this kind of "newbie impression" feedback, regardless of how much of it is still we either know already or are actively fixing. It still gives me an idea of recent, fresh impressions and priorities. So, I have read it.
Also, I was not simply being polite in my response, I genuinely appreciate this kind of "newbie impression" feedback, regardless of how much of it is still we either know already or are actively fixing. It still gives me an idea of recent, fresh impressions and priorities. So, I have read it.
Possibly now Lecter will STFU on IP infringement nonsense (although, I doubt it) and come into the game and have fun without worrying about his PVP stats and whether they correctly update on the website (although, I doubt that too).
I'm looking forward to blasting Traskus Shar's ass out from under him just for the joy of knowing it's Lecter and he won't know it's me.
See ya in game Lick'ter. But you wont see me.
I'm looking forward to blasting Traskus Shar's ass out from under him just for the joy of knowing it's Lecter and he won't know it's me.
See ya in game Lick'ter. But you wont see me.
BJB, can you not read? I didn't bring up IP issues here.
Here, let me give you the same spoon-fed summary I have to give state court trial judges (who are similarly illiterate--hooray for elected judiciaries):
Atice:radar: could you post pics or something? the radar has been fine for me... would be nice to see what is so drastically better. also, they can't outright copy. that IP infringement (Dr. Lecter will rip you to shreds on this).
Dr. Lecter: I actually doubt that copying the fundamentals of their radar system would pose a problem, so long as the graphics were not the same
I also wonder why, when I point out a bug, it's worrying about my PVP stats . . . but when you point out minor bugs, it's being a valuable and contributing member of society.
Here, let me give you the same spoon-fed summary I have to give state court trial judges (who are similarly illiterate--hooray for elected judiciaries):
Atice:radar: could you post pics or something? the radar has been fine for me... would be nice to see what is so drastically better. also, they can't outright copy. that IP infringement (Dr. Lecter will rip you to shreds on this).
Dr. Lecter: I actually doubt that copying the fundamentals of their radar system would pose a problem, so long as the graphics were not the same
I also wonder why, when I point out a bug, it's worrying about my PVP stats . . . but when you point out minor bugs, it's being a valuable and contributing member of society.
prediction misguided it would seem. hell, I'm an engineer :).
oddjobbob, as much as I admire your resolute poking of Lecter, I must request that you stop feeding the troll. Now... back on topic.
oddjobbob, as much as I admire your resolute poking of Lecter, I must request that you stop feeding the troll. Now... back on topic.