Odd as it seems Vo seems to have come full circle. In some ways we have too much protection in nation space and the faction system is a bit too protective. The new players do still need protection but do we really want to prevent almost all combaat in nation space?

I suspect what we need is a faction standing system that also takes into account the differance in player levels and adjusts penalties based on those differances.

My thought is to establish a minimum penalty and then multiply it by the level differance. But how do we define that differance? Total levels divided by 5 seems to be ok and easy.

Would allowing players of equal level to combat aid the game? I know this has been discussed before but now that the other changes are in place I think it may be a good time to review the situation...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: turrets belong (1) at the inside of WHs into a Nation's space, (2) at the inside and outside of WHs into a Nation's capital, and (3) at the Nation's capital stations.

This putting them on both sides of every nation WH is complete horse-shit.

I'm not terribly excited about having the faction system modulate based on respective levels, and never have been. It sounds like an exploit waiting to happen. Helping out newbies, via the mechanics I've mentioned elsewhere (in the FF/Faction thread) should be enough.

No, we don't really want to prevent almost all combat in nation space, but it will probably be less common there than in gray (as one might expect).

I am nowhere even close to finished with the FF/Faction system redux. We've just been very busy for several weeks on other issues, and mitigated things in the meantime with dropping FF in grayspace. Don't draw too many conclusions from that. Beyond "forgiveness" and dropping FF, we've made zero faction-system changes as of yet. There's a lot still coming.

I welcome further discussion and ideas on standing, but usually these topics are best suited to the Suggestions forum.

[EDIT]: Lecter, what you describe is basically what exists. I'm not sure what you're driving at. The only locations with actual system-defense turrets inside and outside are entries into Capitol systems. On borders, they're only on the outside (if a station happens to be on the inside, well, the station does have turrets too, but those are usually further from the wormhole). Obviously, the only exception to this would be a nation Capitol System that also happened to be a border, like Arta Caelestis.

Well at this point there is virtually zero player vs player combat in nation space. Those that can get in nation space are not willing to tank thier standings even when it is two equal level players. I can pretty much roam through Uit space and totally ignore any pirate or greifer I may come across because of the faction system and I dont believe this is really the result any of us wanted. Some form of level based system with severe penalties for harming a newb seems to be closer to what is needed. I just cant think of any other solution that would work. We want people to check thier targets and if it isnt a newb they should be able to fire away with only a minor penalty to concern themselves with.

I am not thrilled with the idea either but the only other course is to put a magic shield on them and I think that idea has long been rejected due to the worse exploits possible.

I think he's complaining about the fact that there are turrets guarding the outside of the entrance to nation space, rather than within their own territory.

Such as sticking turrets in Edras for the Itani when the Itani are in Jalilk.

I see nothing wrong with the turrets being on the outside of the wormholes.

I was responding more to the "putting them on both sides of every nation WH" comment, and I'm still not really sure what he's talking about there.. unless he assumed they're all like Arta, or was confused by a station.

PaKettle, there is no "result". Nothing has "come full circle". As I said in my last post, we have not actually made most of our planned faction-system changes yet. Not having the "result that any of us wanted" would require us to.. change something first.

Also, I'm moving this to Suggestions.

I don't see anything wrong with turrets on the other side of a nations wormhole...its just a nations way of defending itself. I cant believe I'm quoting/paraphrasing him but..."fighting the enemy there so we don't have to fight them here."

At any rate, the OP's idea has merit as far as protecting newbs goes. Currently if a greifer or player wants to go on a nation killing spree they go in, and hop from station to station killing newbs/players, until they either make it out of nation space or get killed by strike force. the repercussion is they tank their standing. After that, its a simple matter of getting back in and botting untill they can take bulk procs and then its about an hour until PoS...(assuming they want to go that far).

What if there was a way to restrict/deny missions if a player has killed X amount of people within nation space? Or lower the amount of standing gained from botting if a player has killed X amount of players? Making it harder to regain standing after killing players might offer some protection to newer players.

About a hour to get back to PoS Ryan? You should tank your UIT standings once and get a reality check, seriously.

Vskye...about an hour to get back to PoS AFTER a ton of botting. With my Serco standing...after I was able to dock at Serco stations, it took about an hour to get from the minimum docking faction to PoS by doing bulk procs. Same thing for when I got my Itani PoS back.

It might be useful to read about the upcoming Temp KoS system. See here for more information. Please do not reply to this thread until you've at least read my first post on that one. It's pointless to debate what "we should do" until one is aware of what we're already trying to do, but have not yet finished implementing.

Ok I see your point but I also see alot of bored pirates as well. I am a bit concerned about the rate of atrophy that seems to be settling in. I realise BS and other stuff requires a lot of your attention but as they say, the natives are getting very restless.

I just think it would be helpfull to ease up on the faction loss in some situations so long as the new players remain protected - And it might help revitalize the pirates and make fighting back a bit less painfull.

And no the turrents are not a problem for me... They seem to be well placed and reasonably effective.

Atrophy??? There's more change going on than there has been in years. This native is pleased, as are many others. Stay the course and await feedback when we get to each destination.

/edit: that's very rude ryan. I'll refrain from a very rude and humiliating riposte I had in mind.

/me hands Whistler a tissue

You got some brown stuff on yer nose and lips.

Full circle??? From my perspective for that to be true there would be no protection at all, no guilds, micro stations and a universe that's 18 sectors wide.