Forums » Suggestions
The mass of this weapon needs to be about 200 kg higher. I can see that a hyper-advanced mini-gun weighs only 300 kg, but the ammunition is another thing. 1000 rounds at, say, 200g? Would make sense.
Before you say that this is a very high number, keep in mind that this gun is supposed to use 'no energy' (which to me is more like 'neglectable', because you need a way to spin the barrels), so each shot has to carry its own energy reservoir to propel the bullet. This will increase each shots' weight well over twice the weight of each bullet.
Before you say that this is a very high number, keep in mind that this gun is supposed to use 'no energy' (which to me is more like 'neglectable', because you need a way to spin the barrels), so each shot has to carry its own energy reservoir to propel the bullet. This will increase each shots' weight well over twice the weight of each bullet.
I would do it like this:
Ineubus Minigun
Speed - 230 ...-45
mass - 650 ...+350
damage - 250 ...-50
delay - 0.1
targeting - none ...was 'little'
ammo - 800 ...-200
energy - 1 ...+1
grid - 8
bolt size - same size as rails
Ineubus Minigun
Speed - 230 ...-45
mass - 650 ...+350
damage - 250 ...-50
delay - 0.1
targeting - none ...was 'little'
ammo - 800 ...-200
energy - 1 ...+1
grid - 8
bolt size - same size as rails
Equipped on a greyhound this could eat any turbo fleeing trader in VO.
Don't think griefers wouldn't find yet another use for this.
Don't think griefers wouldn't find yet another use for this.
@ toshiro i see your point so maybe we come up with a mk1 varient and mk2 3 etc
Keep in mind that the gatling turret was originally ammo-based. I think the problem was that it was too difficult for the server to keep track of the rapid-fire ammo.
It was? When?
peytros:
All variants would have to be heavier. But I'm afraid Maegereg is right when s/he says that this weapon would directly rival energy weapons, and I'm not sure this would be a good thing. Would have to be tested, I guess.
peytros:
All variants would have to be heavier. But I'm afraid Maegereg is right when s/he says that this weapon would directly rival energy weapons, and I'm not sure this would be a good thing. Would have to be tested, I guess.
650 just seems a little heavy for doing less damage and having a finite source of ammo. maybe being simmilar in wieght to neutron mk1 2 and 3s would be better. On a side note the gat turret would be much more balanced as an ammo weapon
well peytros i was low-balling that shit as it was.
In fact these are the new stats I just came up with.
Ineubus Minigun
Speed - 230
mass - 850 ...+200
damage - 250
delay - 0.1
targeting - none
ammo - 800 ...
energy - 1 ...
grid - 8
bolt size - same size as rails
Rational being, it's a frakking minigun. Minigun's are heavy. They have big bullets with lots of explosive mass, and there are 800 of them. If they weigh 1/2 a kg each, that would be 400kg in just ammo. The gun, because it has a longer barrel than the flechette cannon, and more accurate quality parts as well, should be at least what the flechette weighs because the flechette is energy based, and therefore has zero ammunition, hence zero ammunition mass that you're lugging around. I'm still low-balling here, 850 is light for such a weapon. Don't make me go higher...
In fact these are the new stats I just came up with.
Ineubus Minigun
Speed - 230
mass - 850 ...+200
damage - 250
delay - 0.1
targeting - none
ammo - 800 ...
energy - 1 ...
grid - 8
bolt size - same size as rails
Rational being, it's a frakking minigun. Minigun's are heavy. They have big bullets with lots of explosive mass, and there are 800 of them. If they weigh 1/2 a kg each, that would be 400kg in just ammo. The gun, because it has a longer barrel than the flechette cannon, and more accurate quality parts as well, should be at least what the flechette weighs because the flechette is energy based, and therefore has zero ammunition, hence zero ammunition mass that you're lugging around. I'm still low-balling here, 850 is light for such a weapon. Don't make me go higher...
technobabble
I don't think it would be wise to use an exothermic reaction as a means to create propellant in space. Cooling is not easy.
Rather, let's have a look at this. The principle could be the same, and it'd provide its own cooling, since expansion of a fluid in space draws energy from the surroundings, in this case the minigun barrels. Make a thermal interface to the motors rotating the barrels, hooray, self-contained system.
And it'd still make the ammo heavy enough to warrant 300, 500 or even 700 kg of added mass, yielding 600, 800 or 1000 kg (heavier projectiles, more propellant, more damage). There we go, variants. Scale damage by factors of 1.2 and 1.5 for the heavier versions, but keep delay and velocity the same (I'm using wildass' latest stats).
/technobabble
I don't think it would be wise to use an exothermic reaction as a means to create propellant in space. Cooling is not easy.
Rather, let's have a look at this. The principle could be the same, and it'd provide its own cooling, since expansion of a fluid in space draws energy from the surroundings, in this case the minigun barrels. Make a thermal interface to the motors rotating the barrels, hooray, self-contained system.
And it'd still make the ammo heavy enough to warrant 300, 500 or even 700 kg of added mass, yielding 600, 800 or 1000 kg (heavier projectiles, more propellant, more damage). There we go, variants. Scale damage by factors of 1.2 and 1.5 for the heavier versions, but keep delay and velocity the same (I'm using wildass' latest stats).
/technobabble
rails already wiegh a lot and do a lot of damage so lets not have these head in the same direction...
ok so after talking to inc about how a counter would slow things down i came up with a proposal that would make this more practical. what if the gun fired in bursts of 10 rounds per second so the counter would only count down like 100 90 80 70 etc.
I dislike the low ammo of the ammo-reqired woepons anyway and I think that this would have much more effect if it took purely energy. This is just my opinion but I think that the weapon took perhaps 2 or 3 energy and had no limit
hoov426 thats like using that stuipd set up of 3 low level rapid fire plasma guns that people just backroll and spam with. this would actually be effective and run out of ammo if you did that
I'd like to just add a comment to those who argue that this will create server lag.
Currently, we have energy weapons, which do the same kinds of things, same speeds, and have an "ammo" associated with them in the form of energy.
The old gatling turret MAY have had problems, but my feeling is that's just a coding problem, not an inherent problem.
It may be that it can't be treated the same way as ammo weapons like flares or rails, but if we instead treat it as an energy weapon which can only be fired some number of times, I suspect the server load will be minimally impacted by the code.
Nothing strikes me as inherently problematic about these weapons.
.... Other than balancing them properly.
Currently, we have energy weapons, which do the same kinds of things, same speeds, and have an "ammo" associated with them in the form of energy.
The old gatling turret MAY have had problems, but my feeling is that's just a coding problem, not an inherent problem.
It may be that it can't be treated the same way as ammo weapons like flares or rails, but if we instead treat it as an energy weapon which can only be fired some number of times, I suspect the server load will be minimally impacted by the code.
Nothing strikes me as inherently problematic about these weapons.
.... Other than balancing them properly.
To be honest, this is too good an idea to let die, so *bump*. We need a good chasing weapon to combat running ninnies.
Devs: We need more stuff like this. One of the problems with VO right now is that it's incredibly monotonous. Everything is exactly the same as everything else. For example, we essentially have TWO primary dogfighting guns, with minor variations in energy drain, bolt speed, and repeat rate. Those two are the neutron blaster (with minor variants in the ion blaster, positron, etc) and the gauss cannon (which minor variations in plasma cannon, plasma devastator, etc). More variation is a Good Thing (TM) and needs to be implemented, and this is one very easy way to do it.
Wildass: You have the right idea, I think, but you're nerfing the stats too far. I think if you guys actually counted how many shots you fired over the course of a typical light fighter duel, you'd be much more appreciative of how much of a limitation 800 shots is. Hell, most newbs fire off 800 shots while turboing at me before they're even within the effective range of their weapons. Also adding energy usage is just silly. The same force that propels the bullets can rotate the barrel. Wildass's first proposed revision is probably okay, if you take away the drain, and probably up the speed a little (to around 240 probably). Thus;
Ineubis Minigun
Speed - 240
Mass - 650 (More than neut II, mind you)
Damage - 250
Delay - 0.1
Targeting - None (as mentioned before, this is on a straight forward mount)
Ammo - 800
Energy - 0
Grid - 10 (If you're going to mount 2 of these, that should AT LEAST preclude mounting anything else. This may need to go up to 11 to prevent even dual-mounting)
Bolt size - same as rails
You can use the same visual as the Ravens for this, in order to make the fruit hang that much lower.
Devs: We need more stuff like this. One of the problems with VO right now is that it's incredibly monotonous. Everything is exactly the same as everything else. For example, we essentially have TWO primary dogfighting guns, with minor variations in energy drain, bolt speed, and repeat rate. Those two are the neutron blaster (with minor variants in the ion blaster, positron, etc) and the gauss cannon (which minor variations in plasma cannon, plasma devastator, etc). More variation is a Good Thing (TM) and needs to be implemented, and this is one very easy way to do it.
Wildass: You have the right idea, I think, but you're nerfing the stats too far. I think if you guys actually counted how many shots you fired over the course of a typical light fighter duel, you'd be much more appreciative of how much of a limitation 800 shots is. Hell, most newbs fire off 800 shots while turboing at me before they're even within the effective range of their weapons. Also adding energy usage is just silly. The same force that propels the bullets can rotate the barrel. Wildass's first proposed revision is probably okay, if you take away the drain, and probably up the speed a little (to around 240 probably). Thus;
Ineubis Minigun
Speed - 240
Mass - 650 (More than neut II, mind you)
Damage - 250
Delay - 0.1
Targeting - None (as mentioned before, this is on a straight forward mount)
Ammo - 800
Energy - 0
Grid - 10 (If you're going to mount 2 of these, that should AT LEAST preclude mounting anything else. This may need to go up to 11 to prevent even dual-mounting)
Bolt size - same as rails
You can use the same visual as the Ravens for this, in order to make the fruit hang that much lower.
oh heh thanks ladron so like i was talking to some people yesterday the reason this weapon looks weird is because it also goes against the balancing rules the devs have in place. lets take a look at how balance is done in vendetta.
we have mass damage and speed as the three big things that balance a weapon (yes repeat rate and energy also but those only get extreme in the case of rails.)
right now we have a gun like a raven which is light does little damage and moves at a relitivly slow velocity.
on the other end we have the aap which is heavier fires faster and does more damage.
and then we have the gauss which is heavier does more damage and fires slower then the aap but faster then a raven.
how the game is balance now is wieght is considered a factor of two so if you have a really light gun it gets slow speed and low damage. on the other hand if you have a heavy gun it gets high damage and high speed. this gun assumes that velocity is more important then weight and thus is lighter then a lot of the faster firing guns and but does less damage.
we have mass damage and speed as the three big things that balance a weapon (yes repeat rate and energy also but those only get extreme in the case of rails.)
right now we have a gun like a raven which is light does little damage and moves at a relitivly slow velocity.
on the other end we have the aap which is heavier fires faster and does more damage.
and then we have the gauss which is heavier does more damage and fires slower then the aap but faster then a raven.
how the game is balance now is wieght is considered a factor of two so if you have a really light gun it gets slow speed and low damage. on the other hand if you have a heavy gun it gets high damage and high speed. this gun assumes that velocity is more important then weight and thus is lighter then a lot of the faster firing guns and but does less damage.
I say cut delay to 0.05 seconds and cut damage per shot to maintain the original dps. If this is a minigun, it should fire like one. Also 800 round cap is very very very little.
800 round cap is fine. The fact that it runs out quickly is kind of the point.
Peytros/whoever told pey about weapon balance - The fact that all of the guns in the game are currently EXACTLY THE SAME is the worst reason I can think of to make all future guns EXACTLY THE SAME as the current ones. In fact, it's a very good to make different guns. It's downright silly that we don't currently have a single gun that's fast and low damage, or vice versa. If a medium weight gun with medium speed and damage is balanced, then it stands to reason that increasing the speed and decreasing the damage while holding weight constant would maintain balance, as long as they are done in the correct proportion. This is even more true if we're going to say you can only fire the gun N times.
Peytros/whoever told pey about weapon balance - The fact that all of the guns in the game are currently EXACTLY THE SAME is the worst reason I can think of to make all future guns EXACTLY THE SAME as the current ones. In fact, it's a very good to make different guns. It's downright silly that we don't currently have a single gun that's fast and low damage, or vice versa. If a medium weight gun with medium speed and damage is balanced, then it stands to reason that increasing the speed and decreasing the damage while holding weight constant would maintain balance, as long as they are done in the correct proportion. This is even more true if we're going to say you can only fire the gun N times.
bump
hardly even threadamancy