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Unaligned Faction Thoughts

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Mar 26, 2009 Dr. Lecter link
I really don't think there should be any PVE elements added to make it more dangerous for traders to go in to any part of grey space until there's a lot more incentive for them to go there in the first place. I think when there are such incentives, player pirates will make it plenty dangerous.

It may be that there should be certain stations that are essentially pirate bases, and hostile to non-pirates. That could provide pirates with an operational advantage in the heart of grey, while still encouraging traders to pass though and risk encounters with human pirates.


Disagree: add the old NPC pirates back, from Sedina to Bractus -- at least inside Odia.
Mar 26, 2009 zak.wilson link
Wouldn't the NPC pirates encourage traders to avoid Odia, making things harder for human pirates?
Mar 26, 2009 Dr. Lecter link
It would also prevent traders from trading too freely due to a shortage of human pirates.
Mar 26, 2009 Aticephyr link
Pelatus and Latos would work fine as starting points [to experiment with the exclusion of do-gooders at subfaction stations]

And not one trader goes into grey again... ever. Despite the most lucrative trade goods being there. There will still be profit to be had in nation-space. Safe profit. Safe profit means a LOT.
That idea has a major [stamp of rejection].

Though I do think that UIT KOS should be able to dock in sub-factions in nation-space. But of course, the sub-factions might be politically forced to notify "the authorities" who would send extra UIT SF patrols to the wormholes and surrounding area.

It would also prevent traders from trading too freely due to a shortage of human pirates.
There are a shortage of human anti-pirates too... so what's your point? NPCs are not the solution.

EDIT:
I believe the sub-factions not allowing docking privs in nation-space was meant to combat the tactics of Inco. He would grief in the Nyrius/Verasi area and as soon as SF got close, he would run to a subfaction station he had good standing with.
I think the devs have the system on a timer. If you kill someone in one sector of monitored space, the stations immediately surrounding that sector disallow docking privileges for a specific amount of time. I do not remember how long this time is.

That said, there should be some system in place to prevent outright abuse of subfaction stations. This could be done by significantly increasing the number of SF that patrol after someone has been killed in a monitored sector. I think the disallowing docking in nation-space for a specific amount of time is interesting. But if that is the course the game will take, there needs to be a better way of visually communicating that surrounding area X will not let you dock for the next Y minutes.
Mar 26, 2009 vIsitor link
I'm going to agree that scattering turrets all over grey probably isn't a good idea. On the other hand, pirates really need havens to hide at, so roving pirate tridents or a few well-defended unaligned stations wouldn't be out of the question.

Pirates used to have a fairly strong presence in VO, but they really had nowhere to hide when the anti-pirates came and drove them out of grey (they ended up fleeing into nation space, ironically). Giving them a base of operations to work out of might help them a bit.

Also, the lack of anti-pirates at the moment is largely linked to a lack of a perceived need to fight them.
Mar 27, 2009 Dr. Lecter link
And not one trader goes into grey again... ever.

Look, if you want to be a trader, and you want to be welcome all over Grey, fine. But if you're a goddamn [VPR] or the equivalent thereof, you shouldn't be docking in Sedina, Odia, or Bractus. End of story. I haven't thought out how to easily demarcate between the two yet, but that's not too hard.

Or the Devs can fix this "UIT KOS=NO DOCKING AT UIT LOCATED SUBFACTIONS" horseshit. Don't much care which.

The idea that a pirate can't get through nation space, but that a VPR can hang out anywhere they want in Sedina/Odia/Bractus is total bullshit. When I first heard "border defense turrets" I though, 'huh, that's cool -- gotta dodge turrets at the border and maybe at the WH into capitals' But no, there's turrets at every single fucking WH in any nation's space. You can't fly through UIT in a GREYHOUND without getting blow out of space while moving at 225 m/s. Just go ahead and install the insta-kill beams from teh old Caps, INC, because teh fucking effect is the same --- atleast that way you'll meak the stupid n00bs happy and get some players for VO.

However, since that's teh way we'r e doing things, at the very least there should be some sort of exclucivity to the three Corvus syustems. But no, we'll jhust leave thos etotally alo e and "easy"
Mar 27, 2009 PaKettle link
Perhaps corvus should refuse docking with anyone that is pos anywhere else?
Mar 27, 2009 Dr. Lecter link
insufficent in the extreme
Mar 27, 2009 ryan reign link
Don't know how or even if this would work...make guild faction standing. Guilds already have a KoS list so its not to much of a stretch. Next, Guilds that are KoS with...(for example)...CLM...(like VPR), are KoS with Corvus. That way traders could still dock at Corvus, pirates would suffer no faction hit for killing a VPR.

Of course this has potential for abuse...like making every other guild KoS so you can have exclusive control of Corvus stations.
Mar 27, 2009 Aticephyr link
Of course this has potential for abuse
Understatement of the year. I can't think of a way to implement this without there being significant abuse.
Mar 27, 2009 Dr. Lecter link
Guilds have to remain irrelevant to VO gameplay

Not sure how to work this out, but maybe I'll have some time next week
Mar 27, 2009 Pyroman_Ace link
Okay, how about this?

Remove NFZ (No Fire Zones for those of you reading this intoxicated) from all greyspace stations.

Follow that with the removal of Station Guards from Greyspace.

This will mean pirates and traders are tactically on the same footing. Neither will be pursued by defenders, and there is no threshold for NFZ's around stations (or perhaps certain faction's stations).

With NFZ/Station Guards off, change faction stations in UIT space (TPG for example) to being "Faction Monitored" or "Faction Guarded" instead of "UIT Monitored" and "UIT Guarded" this should mitigate the issue of landing in national space.

As for pirates/traders/anti-pirate access to greyspace:

It sound's like all the pirate's want a free-for-all, totally unaligned area to call home.
This would probably mean that certain factions there would support and not support certain pilots. For example, a PoS Xang Xi [VPR] would be supported in Xang Xi systems, but not in say, Corvus.
This means that the pilot menu (default K, whatever the official name is) would need to be expanded to show all faction standing, so the pirate can reference it.

Greyspace being "Unaligned" it shouldn't care one way or the other what occurs, but the factions can care, because they are aligned with their own interests.
Also with Greyspace being the highway to UIT on all sides, it has to allow pilots through.

Perhaps a solution to the VPR/Anti-Pirate forces landing in Greyspace, would be to limit the faction standing they can have in those areas, somewhere in the realm of -600 to -450.
This would keep with the idea that these governments would save face and problems by publicly supporting the anti-pirate effort (ie: They don't want a Serco/Itani/UIT Battle-group coming down and pacifying the region and finding out they're really supporting the pirates).
But this Faction - Antipirate relationship can be understandably cool, since the faction would be worried the anti-pirates would discover the relationship it has and support it gives to the pirates, and thus ruin the business.

(Sorry long winded. What do you think).