Forums » Suggestions
AI Drone ships
Ok, so I've played this game about a week so far, and I find it to be very casual and relaxing, combat is sheer joy, and nothin' warms my heart than seeing all those green numbers when trading local goods.
Here's the thing though: to make any serious money, I have to do all the trading and mining PERSONALLY, and some of those trade misssions, or should I say, MOST trade missions, require me to make an insanely tedious amount of jumps between systems, not factoring in all the ion storms you inevitably hit. I wouldn't have a problem with that, except for the fact that the reward for undertaking such missions is pretty much the only way to raise my Trading/Mining Licenses, and the payoff is WAY out of proportion to the length and difficulty of the missions. Just the other night I undertook a two-way delivery mission that made me jump all the way from Itan to Sedina (Or some other greyspace station, can't remember) It took me over an hour just to get 2/3 of the mission done, and when I completed it? I got 100,000 creds and 200 Trading Xp. Out of 5,000 needed xp. I got hosed. (Isn't the first time either)
This all leads me to suggest that after hitting, say, Trade License 3, the player should be able to purchase an AI to pilot Ships set to do a specific task that you set it upon at the station. The ship effectively becomes a Drone ship, allowing me to get that really, really meager and unfair amount of XP from trading missions (as well as any profit from just normal trading) without me actually having to sit there, groaning from the lack of anything interesting happening while I read a book and hold down "Tab" until i get close enough to yet another warp point. Instead, I could go undertake some border patrol missions, or hive hunting, or exploring. Stimulating stuff.
As your trading license increases, you can buy more drone ships and set them to do things besides trading such as assisting you in mining (having it auto mine would be a bit unfair, or maybe not since anyone could just blow it out of the sky and steal the cargo) Or join you in combat, all that good stuff. Plus, just think how cool it would be to own a trade fleet. And it would make pirating less... boring as well. Instead of sitting around a wormhole hoping someone weaker than you (If anyone comes at all)comes through.
Eh? See? Flawless eh?
Here's the thing though: to make any serious money, I have to do all the trading and mining PERSONALLY, and some of those trade misssions, or should I say, MOST trade missions, require me to make an insanely tedious amount of jumps between systems, not factoring in all the ion storms you inevitably hit. I wouldn't have a problem with that, except for the fact that the reward for undertaking such missions is pretty much the only way to raise my Trading/Mining Licenses, and the payoff is WAY out of proportion to the length and difficulty of the missions. Just the other night I undertook a two-way delivery mission that made me jump all the way from Itan to Sedina (Or some other greyspace station, can't remember) It took me over an hour just to get 2/3 of the mission done, and when I completed it? I got 100,000 creds and 200 Trading Xp. Out of 5,000 needed xp. I got hosed. (Isn't the first time either)
This all leads me to suggest that after hitting, say, Trade License 3, the player should be able to purchase an AI to pilot Ships set to do a specific task that you set it upon at the station. The ship effectively becomes a Drone ship, allowing me to get that really, really meager and unfair amount of XP from trading missions (as well as any profit from just normal trading) without me actually having to sit there, groaning from the lack of anything interesting happening while I read a book and hold down "Tab" until i get close enough to yet another warp point. Instead, I could go undertake some border patrol missions, or hive hunting, or exploring. Stimulating stuff.
As your trading license increases, you can buy more drone ships and set them to do things besides trading such as assisting you in mining (having it auto mine would be a bit unfair, or maybe not since anyone could just blow it out of the sky and steal the cargo) Or join you in combat, all that good stuff. Plus, just think how cool it would be to own a trade fleet. And it would make pirating less... boring as well. Instead of sitting around a wormhole hoping someone weaker than you (If anyone comes at all)comes through.
Eh? See? Flawless eh?
I don't think this is a good idea, for various reasons, which I already wrote done exhaustively once, and I don't want to do so again. But trust me, they were good ones.
I think toshiro is referring to these reasons he gave against NPC guild members.
I am all for this: bankrupting n00bs by killing their personal voys would be a whole new sort of amusement for me.
I disagree. It takes away from the immersion. Plus, you get some time to chat with buddies.
Another thing: Name ONE other MMO that lets you do this.
Another thing: Name ONE other MMO that lets you do this.
I must confess that destroying these would be a guilty pleasure for me.
Whereas I would just find it a pleasure.
I don't see anything wrong with this idea.
If a player needs to hire out a convoy to deliver them widgets, and pay well for it, then fine.
If the player wants to escort his own convoy to ensure it's survival, even more fun. I'd rather escort a moth full of stuff than actually fly one.
There could be announcements to the player like ctc as to where the convoy is and if it is being attacked.
Maybe some options as to what escorts you can hire. for instance, you can hire 3 warthogs and 2 centurions for $XXXX.XX to escort your behemoth. Maybe partially refundable if all the escorts survive.
I can just see me sitting in a station getting word of a moth full of cargoes that just announced it's being attacked half a galaxy away and there's no way of getting there in time. I was too lazy to fly out there and escort it myself, so I payed extra for some escorts that are getting BOOMed by Whistler and Dr. Lecter... NOOOOOoooooes!
If a player needs to hire out a convoy to deliver them widgets, and pay well for it, then fine.
If the player wants to escort his own convoy to ensure it's survival, even more fun. I'd rather escort a moth full of stuff than actually fly one.
There could be announcements to the player like ctc as to where the convoy is and if it is being attacked.
Maybe some options as to what escorts you can hire. for instance, you can hire 3 warthogs and 2 centurions for $XXXX.XX to escort your behemoth. Maybe partially refundable if all the escorts survive.
I can just see me sitting in a station getting word of a moth full of cargoes that just announced it's being attacked half a galaxy away and there's no way of getting there in time. I was too lazy to fly out there and escort it myself, so I payed extra for some escorts that are getting BOOMed by Whistler and Dr. Lecter... NOOOOOoooooes!
Actually . . . shit. This COULD be implemented pretty easily.
Devs, escort missions already ship real goods between one station and another. Why not have an "escort" mission where the player picks and pays for what ships and cargo will be involved, and likewise selects the destination? Some limits on number of trade ships and escorts hired would be needed to prevent someone like Ecka from fielding an unassailable armada. To keep it simple, and prevent convoys from being too easy, the player only picks the destination--not the route, just like now.
Better yet, to prevent the in-system or in safe space abuse that would otherwise prevail: these are only available between nation space and Grey space, or between UIT space and one of the other major factions.
There should also be a hefty trade license/medal requirement to prevent idiots from losing their shirt early on: maybe Basic Trader IV.
Assuming any cargo ships dock at the station, they sell all and the credits are transfered to the player, along with some fraction of the trade XP otherwise generated. Because it's an escort mission convoy, you'd have a dual incentive to escort it, rather than let it go on its own: XP for kills. Cut out the extra mission credits, though, as you're supposed to be doing this as a trade mission.
How hard would it be to implement this sort of player-crafted "escort mission," given what's already in place?
Devs, escort missions already ship real goods between one station and another. Why not have an "escort" mission where the player picks and pays for what ships and cargo will be involved, and likewise selects the destination? Some limits on number of trade ships and escorts hired would be needed to prevent someone like Ecka from fielding an unassailable armada. To keep it simple, and prevent convoys from being too easy, the player only picks the destination--not the route, just like now.
Better yet, to prevent the in-system or in safe space abuse that would otherwise prevail: these are only available between nation space and Grey space, or between UIT space and one of the other major factions.
There should also be a hefty trade license/medal requirement to prevent idiots from losing their shirt early on: maybe Basic Trader IV.
Assuming any cargo ships dock at the station, they sell all and the credits are transfered to the player, along with some fraction of the trade XP otherwise generated. Because it's an escort mission convoy, you'd have a dual incentive to escort it, rather than let it go on its own: XP for kills. Cut out the extra mission credits, though, as you're supposed to be doing this as a trade mission.
How hard would it be to implement this sort of player-crafted "escort mission," given what's already in place?
Quote from Inoguy15: "I disagree. It takes away from the immersion. Plus, you get some time to chat with buddies.
Another thing: Name ONE other MMO that lets you do this."
http://www.starsonata.com/
Star Sonata. THERE. And, I might add, star sonata allows for guild-owned sectors of space. Quite a nice game really, but it doesn't work quite right with AMD graphics cards and drivers, so here I am.
Quote from Dr. Lecter : "Actually . . . shit. This COULD be implemented pretty easily.
Devs, escort missions already ship real goods between one station and another. Why not have an "escort" mission where the player picks and pays for what ships and cargo will be involved, and likewise selects the destination? Some limits on number of trade ships and escorts hired would be needed to prevent someone like Ecka from fielding an unassailable armada. To keep it simple, and prevent convoys from being too easy, the player only picks the destination--not the route, just like now.
Better yet, to prevent the in-system or in safe space abuse that would otherwise prevail: these are only available between nation space and Grey space, or between UIT space and one of the other major factions.
There should also be a hefty trade license/medal requirement to prevent idiots from losing their shirt early on: maybe Basic Trader IV.
Assuming any cargo ships dock at the station, they sell all and the credits are transfered to the player, along with some fraction of the trade XP otherwise generated. Because it's an escort mission convoy, you'd have a dual incentive to escort it, rather than let it go on its own: XP for kills. Cut out the extra mission credits, though, as you're supposed to be doing this as a trade mission.
How hard would it be to implement this sort of player-crafted "escort mission," given what's already in place?"
See, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Except instead of waiting for basic trader IV, instead I was thinking that the amount of ships you can own would increase with each license/medal. So at basic Trader I you can own 1 drone ship, then maybe have it double each time. And for you naysayers, just picture in your mind yourself flying at the head of a massive fleet of behemoths, all chock full of rare ores and high grade commerce items.
And for the non-naysayers, well, come on, piracy is kinda boring as it is now. I feel that aside from full fledged player owned stations/orbital colonies, this feature will go a long way towards filling that empty hole a lot of players feel in VO. Seriously, log on and ask people if they feel that despite the coolness of VO as it is, if they feel as if something vital is missing in VO.
Another thing: Name ONE other MMO that lets you do this."
http://www.starsonata.com/
Star Sonata. THERE. And, I might add, star sonata allows for guild-owned sectors of space. Quite a nice game really, but it doesn't work quite right with AMD graphics cards and drivers, so here I am.
Quote from Dr. Lecter : "Actually . . . shit. This COULD be implemented pretty easily.
Devs, escort missions already ship real goods between one station and another. Why not have an "escort" mission where the player picks and pays for what ships and cargo will be involved, and likewise selects the destination? Some limits on number of trade ships and escorts hired would be needed to prevent someone like Ecka from fielding an unassailable armada. To keep it simple, and prevent convoys from being too easy, the player only picks the destination--not the route, just like now.
Better yet, to prevent the in-system or in safe space abuse that would otherwise prevail: these are only available between nation space and Grey space, or between UIT space and one of the other major factions.
There should also be a hefty trade license/medal requirement to prevent idiots from losing their shirt early on: maybe Basic Trader IV.
Assuming any cargo ships dock at the station, they sell all and the credits are transfered to the player, along with some fraction of the trade XP otherwise generated. Because it's an escort mission convoy, you'd have a dual incentive to escort it, rather than let it go on its own: XP for kills. Cut out the extra mission credits, though, as you're supposed to be doing this as a trade mission.
How hard would it be to implement this sort of player-crafted "escort mission," given what's already in place?"
See, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Except instead of waiting for basic trader IV, instead I was thinking that the amount of ships you can own would increase with each license/medal. So at basic Trader I you can own 1 drone ship, then maybe have it double each time. And for you naysayers, just picture in your mind yourself flying at the head of a massive fleet of behemoths, all chock full of rare ores and high grade commerce items.
And for the non-naysayers, well, come on, piracy is kinda boring as it is now. I feel that aside from full fledged player owned stations/orbital colonies, this feature will go a long way towards filling that empty hole a lot of players feel in VO. Seriously, log on and ask people if they feel that despite the coolness of VO as it is, if they feel as if something vital is missing in VO.
I completely disagree with the idea of AI Drone ships at this time.
The idea of AI drones has been discussed as a possible future warfare weapon for squadrons of fighters off player-controlled capital ships but never for trade.
The main problem with this effort is that it makes trading an extremely easy thing, and would lead to massive fleets of AI drones. This would eventually not only lead to issues with space becoming crowded, but the rich pilots of the game would simply purchase more ships in the fleet. TGFT already controls Billions of credits, they could field a fleet instantly more powerful than all other fleets combined.
One thing that I have seen other games do (such as the ever popular Escape Velocity series) is permit the player to hire "escorts". These escort ships merely slave their navigation systems to the player's ship and follow it mindlessly (as long as they're paid).
In exchange for payment, the escort's cargo hold is at the player's disposal (and in EV, the escort's guns). This I could see being effective, as it would force the player to still be involved in the process, and do work for it, all it would do is merely allow larger trade processes now without a convoy mission.
This also is checked by the new economic system that the Dev's introduced that prevents stockpiling of cargo on a station for a massive, high-profit sell off (cr paid are now calculated after each cu, not at initial levels), so it would prevent abuse of a massive fleet dropping 10,000cu of Fire Suppression Systems somewhere and making 40M cr.
The fleet size should also be checked to no more than 4 additional craft, and the craft should be varied per station (ie: Stations that are large have a larger selection of possible escorts, smaller stations may have one or no escorts).
The idea of AI drones has been discussed as a possible future warfare weapon for squadrons of fighters off player-controlled capital ships but never for trade.
The main problem with this effort is that it makes trading an extremely easy thing, and would lead to massive fleets of AI drones. This would eventually not only lead to issues with space becoming crowded, but the rich pilots of the game would simply purchase more ships in the fleet. TGFT already controls Billions of credits, they could field a fleet instantly more powerful than all other fleets combined.
One thing that I have seen other games do (such as the ever popular Escape Velocity series) is permit the player to hire "escorts". These escort ships merely slave their navigation systems to the player's ship and follow it mindlessly (as long as they're paid).
In exchange for payment, the escort's cargo hold is at the player's disposal (and in EV, the escort's guns). This I could see being effective, as it would force the player to still be involved in the process, and do work for it, all it would do is merely allow larger trade processes now without a convoy mission.
This also is checked by the new economic system that the Dev's introduced that prevents stockpiling of cargo on a station for a massive, high-profit sell off (cr paid are now calculated after each cu, not at initial levels), so it would prevent abuse of a massive fleet dropping 10,000cu of Fire Suppression Systems somewhere and making 40M cr.
The fleet size should also be checked to no more than 4 additional craft, and the craft should be varied per station (ie: Stations that are large have a larger selection of possible escorts, smaller stations may have one or no escorts).
See, my thinking is that there would be a fleet limit, but not as small as Pyroman_Ace suggests because with Player-owned trade fleets, the devs could toss out those useless AI traders you always see passing through wormholes. Seriously, they funk up my trading groove.
And, even though your trader badges/license controls how many ships you can install AI's on, you'd have to choose between going pure trade ship fleet or sacrifice some of those would be trade AIs for combatants to defend your other trade AIs. That way you don't have to play baby-sitter all freakin' day if you want to do some greyspace trading.
And as for those ginormus guilds with a kajillion creds just lyin' around, well, with such a massive fleet, obviously the small timers are going to have to resort to actually hiring out Pirate players as privateers to assault the the competitions trade ships. Remember, there's the cost of buying a ship to HOUSE the AI, and then there's the cost of the AI ITSELF, which should be expensive, like, maybe 2-10 million depending on how advanced you want it to be; The cheapest AI being only able to perform simple trade routes (1 wormholes worth) and with a combat level of, say, and artemis mining drone. The more expensive end of that spectrum needs no explanation.
See? SEE?!? Simple as that. Piracy becomes a legitimate (Ha!) career (heck, you could actually implement a "Piracy" license I bet, get XP for number of player owned AI ships killed) Everyone gets a trade fleet/armed escort, guilds get too act more like some sort of intergalactic business conglomerate, and it all comes with a At-your-own-risk policy!
You hear me devs? You cannot silence the people! Give the people what they want!
And, even though your trader badges/license controls how many ships you can install AI's on, you'd have to choose between going pure trade ship fleet or sacrifice some of those would be trade AIs for combatants to defend your other trade AIs. That way you don't have to play baby-sitter all freakin' day if you want to do some greyspace trading.
And as for those ginormus guilds with a kajillion creds just lyin' around, well, with such a massive fleet, obviously the small timers are going to have to resort to actually hiring out Pirate players as privateers to assault the the competitions trade ships. Remember, there's the cost of buying a ship to HOUSE the AI, and then there's the cost of the AI ITSELF, which should be expensive, like, maybe 2-10 million depending on how advanced you want it to be; The cheapest AI being only able to perform simple trade routes (1 wormholes worth) and with a combat level of, say, and artemis mining drone. The more expensive end of that spectrum needs no explanation.
See? SEE?!? Simple as that. Piracy becomes a legitimate (Ha!) career (heck, you could actually implement a "Piracy" license I bet, get XP for number of player owned AI ships killed) Everyone gets a trade fleet/armed escort, guilds get too act more like some sort of intergalactic business conglomerate, and it all comes with a At-your-own-risk policy!
You hear me devs? You cannot silence the people! Give the people what they want!
Hi. We're moving in the direction of players being able to hire captains to do various things, where the captains could potentially be either players or NPCs. This could be construed as the trading-endgame, an offshoot of player-owned stations, and I expect the expenses can be balanced against the relative income increases.
In response to Lecter, yes, we do want player-posted missions of this sort. A lot of the logic is already in place for that idea, but I'm not sure how much work needs to still be done. I've been off in "debugging/optimizing" la-la land for awhile. Anyway, player-posted missions, as far as requesting deliveries or obtaining escorts, are definitely something we want, and have been working towards.
[EDIT] Has anyone ever played any of the games inspired by "Taipan!"? Like perhaps Tradewinds, or as a better example.. Port Royale 2? The way I look at it.. the closer you get to our endgame, the more "zooming out" options become available, in terms of managing things on a large scale. Multiple stations, various fleets of ships doing various things, and so on. Even from a battle standpoint.. a Fleet Admiral giving realtime orders to characters (PC/NPC) in Border-Skirmish-like scenarios (or running a Pirate Clan). The further you get in the game, the more you can choose to zoom out and see things at a tactical, strategic, and economic galactic level. You can also choose to not do that sort of thing, and continue flying around on your own, but the options become available. That's where I'm trying to go. I am quite sure there is a balance to be found, that makes this sort of play available, without inundating the game with too many ships, or unbalancing the economy. I have no intention of making TGFT or anyone else the absolute economic power of the galaxy. EVE has enough problems of that nature, and I'm well aware of them.
Anyway.. I hope that general rambling is of some illustration. This is the sort of topic that requires me to post 100 pages of design to really illuminate anything.
In response to Lecter, yes, we do want player-posted missions of this sort. A lot of the logic is already in place for that idea, but I'm not sure how much work needs to still be done. I've been off in "debugging/optimizing" la-la land for awhile. Anyway, player-posted missions, as far as requesting deliveries or obtaining escorts, are definitely something we want, and have been working towards.
[EDIT] Has anyone ever played any of the games inspired by "Taipan!"? Like perhaps Tradewinds, or as a better example.. Port Royale 2? The way I look at it.. the closer you get to our endgame, the more "zooming out" options become available, in terms of managing things on a large scale. Multiple stations, various fleets of ships doing various things, and so on. Even from a battle standpoint.. a Fleet Admiral giving realtime orders to characters (PC/NPC) in Border-Skirmish-like scenarios (or running a Pirate Clan). The further you get in the game, the more you can choose to zoom out and see things at a tactical, strategic, and economic galactic level. You can also choose to not do that sort of thing, and continue flying around on your own, but the options become available. That's where I'm trying to go. I am quite sure there is a balance to be found, that makes this sort of play available, without inundating the game with too many ships, or unbalancing the economy. I have no intention of making TGFT or anyone else the absolute economic power of the galaxy. EVE has enough problems of that nature, and I'm well aware of them.
Anyway.. I hope that general rambling is of some illustration. This is the sort of topic that requires me to post 100 pages of design to really illuminate anything.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait. Did you just say that you guys are already working on player-owned space stations? I suggested that over a YEAR ago and got laughed out.
I suppose the only major obstacle here is making the "pet" ships profitable enough that any player will want to use them whenever they get the chance, but risky enough that the whole thing is kind of a crapshoot if yo don't know what you're doing i.e. scouting out the best trade routes to avoid piracy and aggresive NPCs.
I suppose the only major obstacle here is making the "pet" ships profitable enough that any player will want to use them whenever they get the chance, but risky enough that the whole thing is kind of a crapshoot if yo don't know what you're doing i.e. scouting out the best trade routes to avoid piracy and aggresive NPCs.
I suggested that over a YEAR ago and got laughed out.
You didn't get "laughed out" because it was a ridiculous suggestion. More because it's something that has been planned since the beginning of time, and is "suggested" on a regular basis by new players who haven't read the "PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A NEW SUGGESTION" stickied thread.
Back on topic though.
We're moving in the direction of players being able to hire captains to do various things, where the captains could potentially be either players or NPCs
Awesome.
You didn't get "laughed out" because it was a ridiculous suggestion. More because it's something that has been planned since the beginning of time, and is "suggested" on a regular basis by new players who haven't read the "PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A NEW SUGGESTION" stickied thread.
Back on topic though.
We're moving in the direction of players being able to hire captains to do various things, where the captains could potentially be either players or NPCs
Awesome.
Well, when I suggested it all I got was "No, it won't happen" or "The Devs said they didn't want to do that, go back to Cleveland, noob!"
Look, I guess i could settle for just gaining more trade XP per trade mission, since that's the real downer here.
Look, I guess i could settle for just gaining more trade XP per trade mission, since that's the real downer here.
/me is a noob, but no one points it out when I'm in game...
As for trade XP, try the new grey missions with a VPR or a TGFT escort. I hear they're profitable trade runs.
As for trade XP, try the new grey missions with a VPR or a TGFT escort. I hear they're profitable trade runs.