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And this would keep newbie sectors free of nasty vets.
Combat 3 for alts is more then enough.
Good suggestion.
Combat 3 for alts is more then enough.
Good suggestion.
Yeah, 3 would be enough I suppose. The reason I suggested 5 is it's the level where you can adequately PvP without botting anymore.
I agree with Gaven 5/5/5/0/0 would be good. The reason i don't have any "real" alts is because i don't want to ever have to bot again.
Ghost, JestatisBess: I found that I could get from combat 3 to 5 inside of less than an hour of gameplay, HS makes that possible. If someone can give you a mega-posi that happens even faster.
The truth is we can't make it 'free' to just throw in an alt because it's convenient. There needs to be some 'cost' to get a player to PvP levels; though with a little ingenuity, you can usually scrape together a decent rig. There is little challenge in PvP when you can buy ANY ship in the game along with any combo of weapons.
The truth is we can't make it 'free' to just throw in an alt because it's convenient. There needs to be some 'cost' to get a player to PvP levels; though with a little ingenuity, you can usually scrape together a decent rig. There is little challenge in PvP when you can buy ANY ship in the game along with any combo of weapons.
There needs to be some 'cost' to get a player to PvP levels
After doing it the hard way with one character, why, exactly, does there NEED to be some cost to getting 5/5/5/4/0 out of the gate for alts?
The fact of the matter is that the challenge of PvP has very little to do with what outfit you can buy.
After doing it the hard way with one character, why, exactly, does there NEED to be some cost to getting 5/5/5/4/0 out of the gate for alts?
The fact of the matter is that the challenge of PvP has very little to do with what outfit you can buy.
"There is little challenge in PvP when you can buy ANY ship in the game along with any combo of weapons."
I think I see the point you're trying to make, but lecter is right about this. Beyond combat 5, equipment means little to nothing. The challenge in PvP has everything to do with who you fight, not what you fight.
I would argue that if you can get from combat 3 to 5 in less than an hour, why not just start at 5? And remember we're not talking about being able to create this alt at combat 5 at any time. Having one character at all 10's or even all 14's if we want to make it more exclusive is a substantial amount of work to have an alt created at 5's IMHO.
I think I see the point you're trying to make, but lecter is right about this. Beyond combat 5, equipment means little to nothing. The challenge in PvP has everything to do with who you fight, not what you fight.
I would argue that if you can get from combat 3 to 5 in less than an hour, why not just start at 5? And remember we're not talking about being able to create this alt at combat 5 at any time. Having one character at all 10's or even all 14's if we want to make it more exclusive is a substantial amount of work to have an alt created at 5's IMHO.
The basic flight test will take you to levels 1/1/-/-/-. It is very easy, but kinda slow. I think it should be changed so that if you kill the first two collectors before time for the next jump, an optional alternate jump is presented for a fast track to complete this mission. Kill 3 artiemas in x seconds or something, while they shoot back at you. An optional path that only a vet can be expected to trigger and complete.
In addition to this, there could be mission errors. List a mission for a level 1 combat pilot to go kill a high level guardian should be presented as a suicide mission, and a mistake on the part of the mission computer, to encourage new players to abort the mission and stick to the tradition learning curve. New players might never guess that a vet will take one of these suicide missions on purpose to fast track level advancement.
Without outside help, you can already hit level 3 combat pretty fast, but I see nothing wrong with fast tracks for players that can demonstrate actual player skill. Missions that will prevent new players from skipping important learning experiences.
But if you are really a vet, and really that good at combat, it should be but a small chore for you to prove it. or... perhaps you really should do the basic combat mission again...
In addition to this, there could be mission errors. List a mission for a level 1 combat pilot to go kill a high level guardian should be presented as a suicide mission, and a mistake on the part of the mission computer, to encourage new players to abort the mission and stick to the tradition learning curve. New players might never guess that a vet will take one of these suicide missions on purpose to fast track level advancement.
Without outside help, you can already hit level 3 combat pretty fast, but I see nothing wrong with fast tracks for players that can demonstrate actual player skill. Missions that will prevent new players from skipping important learning experiences.
But if you are really a vet, and really that good at combat, it should be but a small chore for you to prove it. or... perhaps you really should do the basic combat mission again...
But if you are really a vet, and really that good at combat, it should be but a small chore for you to prove it. or... perhaps you really should do the basic combat mission again...
The only problem with this is that it puts all the onus on combat abilities. There are more skills at play for vets than basic combat. What if we're talking about some crazy level 20 miner who hasn't fired his guns in over a year? Should they be forced to grind it out like a noob because they're not adept at combat?
The only problem with this is that it puts all the onus on combat abilities. There are more skills at play for vets than basic combat. What if we're talking about some crazy level 20 miner who hasn't fired his guns in over a year? Should they be forced to grind it out like a noob because they're not adept at combat?
yes
Assuming most vets already have alts for each Nation and that it is preferable that new players explore what each Nation has to offer from the beginning, just what are all these alts to be used for? Just asking since reworking the license system would only make sense if the new features were going to be used by a good-sized proportion of the user base.
I do like the idea of streamlining the leveling process for players who are returning to the game after a long absence though; an idea like this for them might make returning more attractive.
P.S. I would have no problem being limited to one character per account though I think three (maybe four) would be better overall as it would allow each account to experience each Nation without penalty. (As an aside: if there were a system for changing allegiance in an interesting way, I would lean more toward one character per account.)
P.P.S. Apropos of this thread and thinking about new players having to choose Nations without really knowing what they are choosing (a problem with most RPGs), perhaps make the first character of an account probationary for the first week or so (maybe for the trial period?) of gameplay after which the player gets to decide whether or not to keep the character as is or choose a new Nation with all license levels and credits intact. It's rotten roleplaying but I'm sure an in-game way to explain it could be devised if necessary.
I do like the idea of streamlining the leveling process for players who are returning to the game after a long absence though; an idea like this for them might make returning more attractive.
P.S. I would have no problem being limited to one character per account though I think three (maybe four) would be better overall as it would allow each account to experience each Nation without penalty. (As an aside: if there were a system for changing allegiance in an interesting way, I would lean more toward one character per account.)
P.P.S. Apropos of this thread and thinking about new players having to choose Nations without really knowing what they are choosing (a problem with most RPGs), perhaps make the first character of an account probationary for the first week or so (maybe for the trial period?) of gameplay after which the player gets to decide whether or not to keep the character as is or choose a new Nation with all license levels and credits intact. It's rotten roleplaying but I'm sure an in-game way to explain it could be devised if necessary.
Quick bump and a case study. When I posted this, I was in the early stages of bringing a new alt into the game for a fresh start to things.
A mix of not a lot of free time and growing incredibly bored of botting have caused me to abandon this. Basically I don't have an avenue back into the game unless I use my current characters (which I'm not for various reasons, one being lack of free time), or have a large chunk of free time to devote to developing an alt.
I would think I'm not the only person out there experiencing this.
A mix of not a lot of free time and growing incredibly bored of botting have caused me to abandon this. Basically I don't have an avenue back into the game unless I use my current characters (which I'm not for various reasons, one being lack of free time), or have a large chunk of free time to devote to developing an alt.
I would think I'm not the only person out there experiencing this.
I would like for there to be a fast track for vets and I think there is room for improvement.
But in the meanwhile...I can already level very fast with just an ordinary hx/cent/free cell. There are also some short cuts, especially if you can find an accomplice.
Now, to all those mentors out there that feed unlimited super weapons/cells/credits to newbs: stop it! A vet will only need one set of good stuff to smash his way through the grind. Newbs need the practice that the lower level equipment provide. A mentor should teach, not finance. A vet will typically be able to use one of his existing characters to purchase suitable assistance. Please contact your local grey market pilot for pricing and availability.
But in the meanwhile...I can already level very fast with just an ordinary hx/cent/free cell. There are also some short cuts, especially if you can find an accomplice.
Now, to all those mentors out there that feed unlimited super weapons/cells/credits to newbs: stop it! A vet will only need one set of good stuff to smash his way through the grind. Newbs need the practice that the lower level equipment provide. A mentor should teach, not finance. A vet will typically be able to use one of his existing characters to purchase suitable assistance. Please contact your local grey market pilot for pricing and availability.
I can already level very fast with just an ordinary hx/cent/free cell.
Relatively speaking. The-mighty-one-eyed-beast-in-the-sky knows I've leveled a pile of alts, every which way. "Fast" is still a relative term for anyone working full-time plus, trying to maintain any form of a relationship, or whatever other real life commitments hinder one's ability to commit to more than an hour or two a week.
Even still, grinding is not fun. Someone who has put hundreds of hours into this game in the past, and is now considering a comeback, may give it a miss when faced with all the other either more immediately satisfying game experiences out there, or simply other games that offer a wholly new grinding experience (not necessarily better, but new to the person in question).
Relatively speaking. The-mighty-one-eyed-beast-in-the-sky knows I've leveled a pile of alts, every which way. "Fast" is still a relative term for anyone working full-time plus, trying to maintain any form of a relationship, or whatever other real life commitments hinder one's ability to commit to more than an hour or two a week.
Even still, grinding is not fun. Someone who has put hundreds of hours into this game in the past, and is now considering a comeback, may give it a miss when faced with all the other either more immediately satisfying game experiences out there, or simply other games that offer a wholly new grinding experience (not necessarily better, but new to the person in question).
I agree completely with the initial post of this thread.
It's a pain in the neck to re-level everything if you decide you want to try out a different nation, a different personality (pirate/anti-pirate, etc.)
I would say that instead of getting 100% of your license levels, you get 50%
Mining and Trade should be included in your options, since while they are not especially difficult to acquire, they are very time consuming (esp. since VO has a long travel time by comparison to other games).
It's a pain in the neck to re-level everything if you decide you want to try out a different nation, a different personality (pirate/anti-pirate, etc.)
I would say that instead of getting 100% of your license levels, you get 50%
Mining and Trade should be included in your options, since while they are not especially difficult to acquire, they are very time consuming (esp. since VO has a long travel time by comparison to other games).
The cost could be sacrificing levels on an already existing alt.
So, you have a 12/10/10/10/10 character.
You create a 4/4/4/0/2 character.
Your old character now has 8/6/6/10/8.
Another cost is potential risk of revealing your alt, so if you want it truly hidden you start at the bottom.
So, you have a 12/10/10/10/10 character.
You create a 4/4/4/0/2 character.
Your old character now has 8/6/6/10/8.
Another cost is potential risk of revealing your alt, so if you want it truly hidden you start at the bottom.
Ideas I support:
Trading levels to characters (only from the higher level character to the lower, of the same license type. So a combat 12 character could trade up to half his combat to a new character, or up to 4 combat to a character that was already combat 4, etc...a level 9 could transfer nothing to a level 8)
Transferring credits/equipment to/from alts parked at the same station(with no or minor surcharge).
Fast track missions for vets (that can demonstrate the piloting/combat skill level of a vet).
Trading levels to characters (only from the higher level character to the lower, of the same license type. So a combat 12 character could trade up to half his combat to a new character, or up to 4 combat to a character that was already combat 4, etc...a level 9 could transfer nothing to a level 8)
Transferring credits/equipment to/from alts parked at the same station(with no or minor surcharge).
Fast track missions for vets (that can demonstrate the piloting/combat skill level of a vet).
I completely agree with this,
A little while back, during a discussion of escape pods, Incarnate made a statement about fun... in his exact words...
"Frustration does not make for Fun."
In a game that supposedly prides itself on being skill-based, the idea of levels AT ALL is really silly.
the license system could just as easily be replaced by a beginner set of training missions, after which the player is introduced to the universe with 50000 creds in his pocket and a swift kick out of the newbie sector.
But, assuming Inc doesn't want to scrap the license system, I think this is a good idea. There is no point in adding frustration for players who have done it all before. (Flying a bus with an HX, teaches you just Jack and shit, and Jack left town)
This is why I take time, every now and then, to grab a border patrol mission and shoot a bunch of new players past the first 3 levels... I don't really think they're useful or fun for ANYBODY.
A little while back, during a discussion of escape pods, Incarnate made a statement about fun... in his exact words...
"Frustration does not make for Fun."
In a game that supposedly prides itself on being skill-based, the idea of levels AT ALL is really silly.
the license system could just as easily be replaced by a beginner set of training missions, after which the player is introduced to the universe with 50000 creds in his pocket and a swift kick out of the newbie sector.
But, assuming Inc doesn't want to scrap the license system, I think this is a good idea. There is no point in adding frustration for players who have done it all before. (Flying a bus with an HX, teaches you just Jack and shit, and Jack left town)
This is why I take time, every now and then, to grab a border patrol mission and shoot a bunch of new players past the first 3 levels... I don't really think they're useful or fun for ANYBODY.
Trading levels from a higher to a lower character sounds fair enough to me as a good solution. Perhaps also allowing say 5 million credits to be transfered as well at a high cost of maybe 50 million so it wont get abused.....
Transferring money between alts now just requires a trial account or a friend or guild bank access. Why not let people save time and effort by allowing them to transfer the money directly.
But, anyway, I too find little joy in license systems.
But, anyway, I too find little joy in license systems.
Hmm.
So where does this leave a player who has played a lot and has relatively high levels ?
As usual, a suggestion from kids with the attention span of a goldfish, who want it all and want it now.
Look, working an alt to 4 across the board takes about 3 hours. If you can't be bothered to commit that much game time then just play on your main character. Expecting the devs to put time and effort into coding a fast track system for the lazy is arrogant beyond belief.
Sheesh. I am getting really grumpy as I age. Nae wonder though, ye want an alt, work for it .
So where does this leave a player who has played a lot and has relatively high levels ?
As usual, a suggestion from kids with the attention span of a goldfish, who want it all and want it now.
Look, working an alt to 4 across the board takes about 3 hours. If you can't be bothered to commit that much game time then just play on your main character. Expecting the devs to put time and effort into coding a fast track system for the lazy is arrogant beyond belief.
Sheesh. I am getting really grumpy as I age. Nae wonder though, ye want an alt, work for it .