Forums » Suggestions
To draw traders into grey
It might be useful to have station news bulletins about "station X being in desperate need of Y good which can be found at station Z". Basically, we need something to advertise that certain grey-space routes would be VERY PROFITABLE.
And for my other point (I'll admit variations of this have been asked for before): deliveries into grey should pay a LOT more (think 500k-800k+). The heavier the load, the more pay. Also the "special deliveries" should probably weigh more and pay on a similar scale. I feel like that is a very easy change (Devs, if I don't have a clue what I'm talking about feel free to smack me), and could really draw people into grey.
What is also nice about deliveries is that it can cost you a lot if you lose the cargo, which might make a trader more willing to engage in negotiations with the pirate. Also, deliveries are a lot more interactive than escorts (a nice bonus). EDIT: Honestly, I'd love to see deliveries/special deliveries in grey give a LOT more money, even if that means escorts give less (as escorts are somewhat borked).
And for my other point (I'll admit variations of this have been asked for before): deliveries into grey should pay a LOT more (think 500k-800k+). The heavier the load, the more pay. Also the "special deliveries" should probably weigh more and pay on a similar scale. I feel like that is a very easy change (Devs, if I don't have a clue what I'm talking about feel free to smack me), and could really draw people into grey.
What is also nice about deliveries is that it can cost you a lot if you lose the cargo, which might make a trader more willing to engage in negotiations with the pirate. Also, deliveries are a lot more interactive than escorts (a nice bonus). EDIT: Honestly, I'd love to see deliveries/special deliveries in grey give a LOT more money, even if that means escorts give less (as escorts are somewhat borked).
proof atice has a pirate alt
oh also as a former pirate I agree this would help
oh also as a former pirate I agree this would help
Yesssss!
And times the size of gray space by ten.
No pirate alt... just would be fun to escort more traders through grey :).
Apart from the huge profit, this seems to be what the dev's have been setting up with more profitable items in grey stations the last few updates.
First, what volume of goods are you talking about to make that 300-500k cr profit? An XC load? Taur? Cent?
Second, how are you going to account for the rapid profit decline? If your not first to market, your pretty much screwed. Otherwise, your going to be re-enabling stock piling which the dev's clearly don't want happening (one of my biggest disagreements with them).
On the point of trade missions paying far better in Grey, I fully agree, except on special deliveries, which are typically 1 cube data pads iirc. Hog 2 handles those just fine anywhere. The problem I see with this is that it forces people who want to trade, to trade within the 'box' of missions. I used to have a trade alt, with which I enjoyed the search for a good route and then 'exploiting' it. Those days are gone and so is my trade character until the dev's provide something I consider to be a suitable replacement.
That said, I really believe your on the right track here. We need a reason (value) for people to trade in Grey space. HOWEVER, and I fully intend the caps, trading in Grey does NOT necessarily mean deliveries only. There should and hopefully will be return routes that are equally profitable and risky. Banned weapons, Corvus Holodisks, Sedina Chocolates come to mind. I've always found it absurd that you pay 10,000cr per cu of chocolates only to at best make 1-2k profit, while something like consumer electronics you could make 300% or better profit. As well as the normal 'pirate' risk for these items, there should be legal risks as well. Perhaps a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught at the station which would result in 1) loss of goods, 2) substantial fine, 3) significant faction loss. Of course, there should be the option to bribe worked into it as well, with a 1 in 100 chance of getting caught and even stiffer penalties.
So with this, you now have 2 reasons to trade in Grey. To deliver goods at a high profit as well as to bring goods back into nation space. A one way trade route is like having sex alone. Its ok, but could be much much better.
First, what volume of goods are you talking about to make that 300-500k cr profit? An XC load? Taur? Cent?
Second, how are you going to account for the rapid profit decline? If your not first to market, your pretty much screwed. Otherwise, your going to be re-enabling stock piling which the dev's clearly don't want happening (one of my biggest disagreements with them).
On the point of trade missions paying far better in Grey, I fully agree, except on special deliveries, which are typically 1 cube data pads iirc. Hog 2 handles those just fine anywhere. The problem I see with this is that it forces people who want to trade, to trade within the 'box' of missions. I used to have a trade alt, with which I enjoyed the search for a good route and then 'exploiting' it. Those days are gone and so is my trade character until the dev's provide something I consider to be a suitable replacement.
That said, I really believe your on the right track here. We need a reason (value) for people to trade in Grey space. HOWEVER, and I fully intend the caps, trading in Grey does NOT necessarily mean deliveries only. There should and hopefully will be return routes that are equally profitable and risky. Banned weapons, Corvus Holodisks, Sedina Chocolates come to mind. I've always found it absurd that you pay 10,000cr per cu of chocolates only to at best make 1-2k profit, while something like consumer electronics you could make 300% or better profit. As well as the normal 'pirate' risk for these items, there should be legal risks as well. Perhaps a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught at the station which would result in 1) loss of goods, 2) substantial fine, 3) significant faction loss. Of course, there should be the option to bribe worked into it as well, with a 1 in 100 chance of getting caught and even stiffer penalties.
So with this, you now have 2 reasons to trade in Grey. To deliver goods at a high profit as well as to bring goods back into nation space. A one way trade route is like having sex alone. Its ok, but could be much much better.
Agreed Fist.
Re your points: "First, what volume of goods are you talking about to make that 300-500k cr profit? An XC load? Taur? Cent?
Second, how are you going to account for the rapid profit decline? If your not first to market, your pretty much screwed. Otherwise, your going to be re-enabling stock piling which the dev's clearly don't want happening (one of my biggest disagreements with them)."
1) A taur that was really heavy, a light XC, or really heavy atlas would make the 500k cr range. A heavy XC would probably be closer to 800k cr or a mil.
2) These are delivery missions. Where the system is right now, do we need to take rapid profit decline into account?
and I completely agree with you that deliveries should not be the only option. But for right now, I think they could really provide a boost to grey space action with relatively little dev time to implement. As the system becomes more advanced, then better things will take its place. The first part of my suggestion is also worth noting :).
Re your points: "First, what volume of goods are you talking about to make that 300-500k cr profit? An XC load? Taur? Cent?
Second, how are you going to account for the rapid profit decline? If your not first to market, your pretty much screwed. Otherwise, your going to be re-enabling stock piling which the dev's clearly don't want happening (one of my biggest disagreements with them)."
1) A taur that was really heavy, a light XC, or really heavy atlas would make the 500k cr range. A heavy XC would probably be closer to 800k cr or a mil.
2) These are delivery missions. Where the system is right now, do we need to take rapid profit decline into account?
and I completely agree with you that deliveries should not be the only option. But for right now, I think they could really provide a boost to grey space action with relatively little dev time to implement. As the system becomes more advanced, then better things will take its place. The first part of my suggestion is also worth noting :).
I've been thinking about how to draw traders to grey too. My idea is similar to yours. This is from an earlier post in the General forum:
Regarding the new trading routes: The Devs are simulating some aspects of supply and demand - the "dynamic economy." I believe that the profit on these key grey space routes should not change much based on the arbitrary supply and demand parameters, but instead based on how effective they are in encouraging trader-pirate interaction. To this end - prices for a few very high end grey routes should be dynamically advertised in the comm news section. Profit per item should be increased until a critical mass of traders trade the item, and absolute price per item should be high enough to have several pirates who regularly damage or kill those traders. The server could track this interaction between pirates and traders to adjust the prices and profits.
Perhaps a new mission could help facilitate this tracking. A trader would take a mission from one grey space location to another to carry the valuable cargo. These high risk delivery missions would all use the same worm hole to increase pirate-trader interaction. The rewards would be normal profit credits, plus faction and combat XP if attacked and a successful delivery made. When the mission is completed with no opposition, the absolute value of the cargo would go up - with no profit increase - to attract more pirates. If the mission isn't being run much, say less than 10 times per hour, then the profit per item would increase - to attract more traders.
Regarding the new trading routes: The Devs are simulating some aspects of supply and demand - the "dynamic economy." I believe that the profit on these key grey space routes should not change much based on the arbitrary supply and demand parameters, but instead based on how effective they are in encouraging trader-pirate interaction. To this end - prices for a few very high end grey routes should be dynamically advertised in the comm news section. Profit per item should be increased until a critical mass of traders trade the item, and absolute price per item should be high enough to have several pirates who regularly damage or kill those traders. The server could track this interaction between pirates and traders to adjust the prices and profits.
Perhaps a new mission could help facilitate this tracking. A trader would take a mission from one grey space location to another to carry the valuable cargo. These high risk delivery missions would all use the same worm hole to increase pirate-trader interaction. The rewards would be normal profit credits, plus faction and combat XP if attacked and a successful delivery made. When the mission is completed with no opposition, the absolute value of the cargo would go up - with no profit increase - to attract more pirates. If the mission isn't being run much, say less than 10 times per hour, then the profit per item would increase - to attract more traders.
Hmmm. I'd tone down the delivery missions a bit- say 1/3 to 1/2, and would be perfectly happy to have the procurement missions at the reward levels your talking about, since it requires a round trip. Great idea.
Sorry, I misunderstood your concept originally.
Sorry, I misunderstood your concept originally.
I'm hesitant to make procurements so rewarding since you can pick up the cargo from anywhere... then again, no one (well, at least I NEVER have) ever does the takes the other requisition? (is that really what they are called?) missions.
And re your point about special deliveries: sometimes special deliveries can be weapon parts right? I figure a large load of that being delivered into grey (especially since you can't buy more if you get your cargo stolen) should be worth a lot of money.
And re your point about special deliveries: sometimes special deliveries can be weapon parts right? I figure a large load of that being delivered into grey (especially since you can't buy more if you get your cargo stolen) should be worth a lot of money.
What about a special demand for items in short supply?
Stations already post lists oh items which they are "low" on, stations could have a special demand for those items. Since these items would be in short supply the price which the station is willing to pay is noticeably higher than the normal max on the item. In addition to this extra high profit margin the "high" price will stick until the item is no longer in short supply for the station.
Ex.
Station A is running low on VanAzek Ore and posts accordingly on the Stations Welcome screen.
Normally VanAzek would max at around 800c per crate but due to the short supply Station A is willing to pay 1200 credits per crate for the first 1000 crates sold to it. Once the needed shipments are received VanAzek will be removed from the low supply list.
Stations already post lists oh items which they are "low" on, stations could have a special demand for those items. Since these items would be in short supply the price which the station is willing to pay is noticeably higher than the normal max on the item. In addition to this extra high profit margin the "high" price will stick until the item is no longer in short supply for the station.
Ex.
Station A is running low on VanAzek Ore and posts accordingly on the Stations Welcome screen.
Normally VanAzek would max at around 800c per crate but due to the short supply Station A is willing to pay 1200 credits per crate for the first 1000 crates sold to it. Once the needed shipments are received VanAzek will be removed from the low supply list.
I think certain weapons and goods should only be sold in national space. Those items will have a high demand in grey space, encouraging more rewarding (and more dangerous) trade in grey space.
Fair enough on the Special Deliveries, but the last time I was doing proc's, the source station they gave was the nearest station that carried that particular item.