I see that this game has 25 to 40 players at any one time that I'm logged onto this site. You guys are setting your sights too low! Sell adds to advertisers and change to a free to play method and you'll see your user-base go up every single day. I see big things happening for this game if the subscriber base could go a little bit higher. The only way your game can succeed is if you sell advertisements instead of pay to play. One good argument I have for you is this: the more users you get, the more money advertisers will pay for your ads, and these ads don't need to be invasive to game-play in any way to make money. If you truly want vendetta to be massive, then you would know that free to play is the only way you are going to woo first time customers. If some people don't like ads, keep the subscription option. People who already pay to play will likely continue to pay to play and those who don't play will be a lot more likely to pick up this wonderful game. So I urge the developers, whom I know want to see this game succeed, to start selling in-game ad space to advertisers in exchange for a free to play option, simply so your user basecan grow exponentially, creating more fun for subscribers and at the same time increasing revenue for the developers. Thanks for your time.

uhm..... no.

We can't experiment with the business model right now. But I would consider a "hybrid" option down the road (free to a certain level, with ads, but no ads or limits for subscribers).. I just can't really try it now.

mikejm12, or is turumbar?

The idea is sound, but I think the devs have a business model and plan for at least the next year or two, but if what they have planned doesn't work out, I think they would consider exactly what you are describing, mikejm12. However, I imagine they would use it as a "last resort" kind of option for when it comes down to either using ads or shutting down altogether.

I am not sure I want a pepsi cola sign in front of the stations or any other form of real world intrusion into my game play.....

Actually, I don't think this idea makes sense with VO in its current state. VO won't attract advertisers until it has a larger player base - no company is going to pay much for only 150 or so sets of eyeballs per day, especially when you can't easily click-thru in-game - so we're stuck in the same Catch 22. Also, I don't believe VO easily fits into the casual game category that free-to-play games mostly caters to; VO is a niche game with a fairly steep learning curve so you'll get lots of people trying the game and then moving on free or not.

I think the dev's current strategy of concentrating on improving the new player experience with the upcoming new tutorials and improving the end-game with the removal of Friendly Fire and the addition of a dynamic economy is time better spent. Add some tangible end-game goals like player-owned stations and some kind of manufacturing and VO will start attracting and holding a wider range or players.

Sorry, call me cynical but making something free doesn't guarantee success and most free-to-play games are clones of each other and use microtransactions to generate revenue which is fine but that makes them free-to-play-as-a-gimped-newbie games. While VO needs new players, just as any other MMO, the trick is not just to attract new players but to get those new players invested in the game so that they stick around and continue to play and contribute to VO. I think of VO as a kind of hobby and serious hobbyists don't mind paying for their obsession.

Advertisers runs advertisements to people that have money to buy what they are advertising. It is called targeted advertising, to make sure they are not wasting their advertising dollars on spamming people that will never buy their product. You can't afford $10/mo to play a game you obviously do want to play. Who would be willing to pay real money in order to advertise to you?

I would not object in the least if the dev's were to selectively supplement their game income with ads. Particularly on the VO web site. And perhaps in a limited sense in game. I certainly want to see the development team do well in all aspects of their lives and business.

However, despite my fundamental disagreements with the developers, I am still quite happy to pay for my 2 accounts every month.

Daare, I can understand what you mean when you say that no advertiser is going to pay to get ads up that only 150 people see, however, the free to play method would attract a much larger playerbase. In my eyes, I really can't see anyone who currently subscribes to VO canceling or downgrading their accounts if and ad-based free to play option was available. However, there is a large growth potential in offering a free to play option to people who are on the fence about VO. We all know that an 8 hour free trial probably is not nearly enough to get a casual gamer hooked. I believe that there IS a niche in this game for the casual gamer as well, especially when you consider the combat system being "skill based." I think that a free to play option would give VO a huge boost in subscribers, which would create a much larger revenue flow, especially when you start to attract a few more big time advertisers.

All online advertisers want click-thru.

That's not possible without a good amount of programming effort ingame.

And as for web ads, I use Firefox with NoScript, which blocks everything and IS AWESOME. The only time I see ads is either when I want to, or if the ad is served up by the same IP that served up the HTML.

This is the way things are going in the future, soon the "website supported solely by online ad revenue" business model will die once people realize they can easily block unwanted off-site "content." So I wholeheartedly support the use of ads on the VO website, just don't expect me to click on anything or contribute to those pageview stats.

Speaking of user-agent and pageview stats, just for fun I sometimes switch my user-agent to "SkyNet":

mikejm12:

I was going to make a post pointing out which of your points I disagree with, but that would be just about every point you attempt to make, and I didn't want to write a 3 page post.

It is very obvious that you are a minor that has no job and no access to $10, and that your ideas and arguments are completely self serving.

Roda, there's no reason to insult anyone here, it doesn't get anything done. The problem I see with this game is the very low player base, this fact alone is something that stops people from subscribing, free to play is a good way to increase player base, im not trying to serve myself. The free to play option would benefit everyone by increasing the amount of players to interact with.

It's true, there's not a lot of players here, and we do tend to get in an endless loop every time this topic rears its ugly head.

The real issue is that there's not a lot to keep the average MMORPG player coming back to VO month after month at ANY price. Yes, many of us have stayed on for many years, but we're an odd breed - like weird albino spiders living in a cave. Right now the work is in fixing the things that are fundamentally broken, adding the things that are sorely lacking, adding enough content to keep things hopping for a bit, and polishing up what's already here. Once those things are handled then VO will be able to retain players.

Some day, when there are greater resources and relatively lower expenses, free-to-play may make a lot of sense.

I am troll. I know how to insult. And the greatest insults are the facts, because they are the facts, and you are insulted by the facts.

You don't know anything about business.

You don't know anything about advertising.

You could not sign up an advertiser to save your life.

You want to change the business model of a successful company, potentially risking thousands of dollars of someone else payroll, because you don't want to pay ten bucks.

You are not worth advertising to, because you can't even afford ten bucks to play a game, much less anything worth paying advertising space for.

These are the facts, and denying these fact, will not change the fact, that you can not, of your own means, bring any money, material, or market, in any form, to the negotiating table.

P.S. you have now been insulted.

I will only support in-game advertising if all ads are written in Galactic Trade Speak.

I hate to feed the trolls, but Roda, at least I can sit here and be humane about things. I could care less about ten dollars, you're clearly too much into yourself to see my point at all.

Oh, and FYI: You have no clue what you're doing. It's people like you that end up being the bottom feeders of society. I'm sorry that you can't do anything with your life. I kind of feel bad for you. You think you're cool but you're not, you think you speak for everyone but you don't. You wish that you could spend your time away from message boards, but you know you are too much of a coward to actually say anything like that to anyone in real life. So you hide behind your digital persona and insult people from afar. Good for you, congratulations, you are scum. Go do something with your life instead of randomly posting things on a message board that have absolutely no content whatsoever.

mikejm12, as an occasional commenter on these boards who no longer plays much because I'm busy "doing something with my life," let me assure you that Roda is 100% correct w/r/t your earlier post. Also, your random personal attacks are non-responsive to the points he raised:

*As revealed by the holes in your suggestion, you know nothing of business, online advertising, or how GS would go about integrating such advertising.*

While I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that you're a middle school aged brat, or that your parents don't give you enough spending money to afford the game, those really aren't the relevant issues.

Either explain exactly why and how GS/VO would actually be able to get oodles of advertising revenue, or shut the fuck up already.

'kay. Before we diverge too far off into cursing at each other, there are substantial business cases to be made for the "hybrid" f2p/p2p and advertising-augmented model. I could write a long post about it, but instead I'll just link to other people who already have, and perhaps the best example of an advertising-supported game. Now, the first article cites many different models, which can be combined in various ways to provide enhanced income. The latter strictly covers a Shockwave-based game that was/is supported by Google ads. Clearly there are some technical challenges to advertising in a game like ours. I've actually been in touch with the head of Google's Game Advertising division about exactly these challenges and what options they might be considering. For instance, having click-through in a station would not be all that difficult. Just weird, and annoying, I'm not sure where we'd put the ads. But that's really another discussion..

Regardless, at the present time I cannot make this kind of business model change. The risk is way too great. At a later point, on a bit more solid financial footing, I'd certainly consider the possibility. But not yet.

So, the best I can say is "I am aware of the other models, and some of the really substantial benefits of them.. like greatly increased player density, but I cannot experiment at this time."

So mikejm's suggestion isn't really so bad, just not realistic as of yet.

Two interesting articles Inc, and a fair response.

Just as a side issue I observed that neither of those articles made mention of the fact that as an international product a downloadable game with advertising may be subject to regulation by the legal authorities in the country in which it is downloaded and played .

Using a third party , such as google ads , may protect the game developers directly but sooner or later I suspect that the ASA or similar bodies would become involved.

The following may be of interest

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/news/news/2009/Video+games+advertising+survey.htm