Forums » Suggestions
Official Plugin Repository
With plugins being used more and more widely, it's rather a nuisance to have to handle version control for each individual plugin. Also, many newbies have a hard time find/downloading/installing plugins. If it wouldn't take the devs too long, it would be REALLY nice to have a very simple plugin repository that simply managed version control. Nothing complicated, no changelogs, partial updates, etc., because the files are so small we don't have to worry about any of that. Just automatically download and install the new version of a plugin when it's posted.
-Calder
P.S. If the devs don't want to do this, I'll consider doing it myself, but it will be much less official and running on the 10kb/s server behind my kitchen chair. ;-)
-Calder
P.S. If the devs don't want to do this, I'll consider doing it myself, but it will be much less official and running on the 10kb/s server behind my kitchen chair. ;-)
Gimme a sec it should be up, soon, come on...
No, Slime, I think you misunderstood. It would AUTOMATICALLY update to new versions when they came out, AS WELL AS allowing plugin makers a good place to post stuff, and players an easy way to find stuff. There are already kinda good ways for the second and third, but the version control would be the main function.
-Calder
-Calder
Well right now it's impossible for us to write to files other than a few specific ones meant for notes, so it'd have to be implemented by the developers.
It is, however, possible to make plugins notify you when they need to be updated.
It is, however, possible to make plugins notify you when they need to be updated.
It wouldn't be impossible if you created it as a stand-alone program or script, not a plugin itself. In fact, it would be quite easy, but it wouldn't carry the official weight or polish if I did that. That said, I probably WILL do it anyway if the devs don't. THAT said, I seriously think they should, as it shouldn't be more than an hour of time, (maybe 2-3 with a web interface). But what do I know. Anyway, I'd love hear some feedback from a dev on this...
You could write one and submit it to them for inclusion. That way (if it gets accepted) it has the official weight with none of the work for them. Which is always a bonus.
I don't really mind the idea of a really basic revision-control system that we host (like a public cvs server or git hub). Beyond that, however..
Basically, we get a lot of complaints about plugin-related problems already, where the players think the actual game is responsible (and it isn't). We do not want *any* confusion between where our responsibility stops and your own begins.. we work very hard to keep the game as bug-free as we can, and the idea of people blaming us or expecting a level of "support" on 3243299 random plugins made by god-knows-who is rather scary to us. I am concerned that the line of where our responsibility stops will become that much more blurred if we start providing automatic-update and official-easy-install features. Plus, automatic-update has all sort of other security ramifications for people using the plugins. Even if we did allow it, I would not want it to be enabled by default; it could be used to compromise people's accounts, or worse.
If someone wants to go through the trouble (and risk!) of installing a not-officially-approved and possibly-unstable plugin into their client, they need to be aware enough to take the related responsibility of learning how to install and maintain it. I don't think that excludes, say, going to a website or board and downloading something to upgrade.
I do welcome further feedback on the topic.
Basically, we get a lot of complaints about plugin-related problems already, where the players think the actual game is responsible (and it isn't). We do not want *any* confusion between where our responsibility stops and your own begins.. we work very hard to keep the game as bug-free as we can, and the idea of people blaming us or expecting a level of "support" on 3243299 random plugins made by god-knows-who is rather scary to us. I am concerned that the line of where our responsibility stops will become that much more blurred if we start providing automatic-update and official-easy-install features. Plus, automatic-update has all sort of other security ramifications for people using the plugins. Even if we did allow it, I would not want it to be enabled by default; it could be used to compromise people's accounts, or worse.
If someone wants to go through the trouble (and risk!) of installing a not-officially-approved and possibly-unstable plugin into their client, they need to be aware enough to take the related responsibility of learning how to install and maintain it. I don't think that excludes, say, going to a website or board and downloading something to upgrade.
I do welcome further feedback on the topic.
Well, you could make an official place where people can post plugins to be tested, and if approved they appear in the official plug in page. That page would say if they are out of date, and if they are, make it so they cannot be downloaded further (to prevent problems). Plus, you could also state that you do not have support for plugins.
If you decide to go ahead with it I am willing to put up the server space, sufficient bandwidth and make any customization needed on the server side to make something like this work.
It's a production server with little downtime running on Linux.
You can email me at radu a@t zona d.o.t ro
It's a production server with little downtime running on Linux.
You can email me at radu a@t zona d.o.t ro
An official disclaimer from the devs should be added. This would protect them and also warn users they are using third party software. Linux has much the same problems and their distribution model should be looked at as a way to handle things.
As much of a pain as it may seem the devs do need to be protected in this case.
As much of a pain as it may seem the devs do need to be protected in this case.
PaKettle: Actually, most linux distros, as well as FreeBSD, have people who specifically maintain their packages and ports. We don't have that, and I don't want to get into the whole "testing" thing either.. as that really depends on the extent of the testing done, and it starts to imply that stuff should work.
Basically, any time we do changes to UI-based gameplay, we risk breaking all the plugins out there. And we currently do that blithely and without regard for the plugins at all. And that should continue, otherwise plugin development ends up hamstringing game development.
We currently offer a sticky thread with a bunch of links, and we could expand that to some sort of hosting site or cvs repository or whatever.. but I still want the end-user to have to go click on something and download it, and mess around with installing it. I feel if we remove too much of that experience, we're just asking for trouble.
Isn't it already possible for plugins to do update notifications on their own, using the socket or HTTP code or whatever it is that's in there? Not auto-downloads and upgrades, but just a notification that the version is old?
Basically, any time we do changes to UI-based gameplay, we risk breaking all the plugins out there. And we currently do that blithely and without regard for the plugins at all. And that should continue, otherwise plugin development ends up hamstringing game development.
We currently offer a sticky thread with a bunch of links, and we could expand that to some sort of hosting site or cvs repository or whatever.. but I still want the end-user to have to go click on something and download it, and mess around with installing it. I feel if we remove too much of that experience, we're just asking for trouble.
Isn't it already possible for plugins to do update notifications on their own, using the socket or HTTP code or whatever it is that's in there? Not auto-downloads and upgrades, but just a notification that the version is old?
Actually ..with some abuse of the system notes a plugin could probably be updated over the net.
A master plugin could load scripts from the notes with one of the load functions. To update it'd just download new versions and write them to notes files.
A master plugin could load scripts from the notes with one of the load functions. To update it'd just download new versions and write them to notes files.
The user would still have to copy the notes file into the proper location though, wouldn't they?
nah, they just install the master plugin.
that say displays them a list of plugins to download (ingame), and does that, potentially saving it in notes but it's not really required.
ie. go right past updating and into distributing this way in the first place.
One issue is, by this point you can run any code without the user ever seeing it or knowing about it.
that say displays them a list of plugins to download (ingame), and does that, potentially saving it in notes but it's not really required.
ie. go right past updating and into distributing this way in the first place.
One issue is, by this point you can run any code without the user ever seeing it or knowing about it.
here's an example:
http://home.arcor.de/famscheffler/ven/selfupdate.zip
The selfupdate_update command causes the script to download a couple of scripts and save them in the system notes. After that every time the script is loaded it will load the rest from the notes. It doesn't do a lot of error checking and crap. I just wanted to illustrate what I meant.
The whole thing is a pretty bad idea anyway.
http://home.arcor.de/famscheffler/ven/selfupdate.zip
The selfupdate_update command causes the script to download a couple of scripts and save them in the system notes. After that every time the script is loaded it will load the rest from the notes. It doesn't do a lot of error checking and crap. I just wanted to illustrate what I meant.
The whole thing is a pretty bad idea anyway.