Forums » Suggestions
PaKettle: You are correct and this may not be the right thread for my personal mis-adventures. I have not run into any pirates yet, both of the attacks I mentioned were from non-pirate players. I guess it would actually be considered griefing not piracy.
A lot of griefing is done under the guise of piracy...And yes your experiance is helpfull to the Devs so they know what is going on and hopefully they will decide the best way to deal with it. If Vo is to grow then the noob experiance needs to be a great one.
I just hope some of the pirates will pipe in and help by telling thier side of the situation.
I just hope some of the pirates will pipe in and help by telling thier side of the situation.
What pirates?
According to you, they're all griefers and none of what they say applies in the least to this thread.
According to you, they're all griefers and none of what they say applies in the least to this thread.
Incarnate is working on a special newb area, right?
The question is then to what degree do we need to protect newbs from their newbish follies. Currently we have capitol stations and capitol systems to offer greater safety to those in need. Obviously safety is not absolute but I am doubtful that those who wish to learn the basics of the game can't already do so with minimal harassment. The problem is when people go out into the big bad world prematurely.
If capitol system security needs a buff then it needs a buff. But I fail to see the point of helping those who will not help themselves.
The question is then to what degree do we need to protect newbs from their newbish follies. Currently we have capitol stations and capitol systems to offer greater safety to those in need. Obviously safety is not absolute but I am doubtful that those who wish to learn the basics of the game can't already do so with minimal harassment. The problem is when people go out into the big bad world prematurely.
If capitol system security needs a buff then it needs a buff. But I fail to see the point of helping those who will not help themselves.
wanna repair paracy? Give the corvus maud infiniboost, make it a worthy chaser.
The speed issue is a problem. I believe Incarnate limited the speed to about 220m/s because of server issues. I did suggest somewhere to adjust top speed based on the mass of the ship. This would make fully loaded moths very easy targets. Empty ships would be able to get away easier but do pirates really want to bother with an empty?
I dont see that noobs need to be protected from all dangers. If they wander into grey then all bets should be off. Getting killed by being in the wrong place is certainly one way to school them. They should be protected from excessive harm tho.... making the capitols and maybe the adjacent systems fairly secure is likely the best way to go in this regard. Trade, weapons and missions should be tailored towards noobs in theses areas as well to help push the senior players into less secure and more profitable areas....
Genka perhaps if you gave us your version of piracy we might be able to understand it better. Do you really consider destroying ships without contacting the pilot first piracy? Is destroying those who are unable to defend themselves a worthwhile task for a skilled pirate? At what point does piracy become grief? This thread is a discussion of these questions. I have no real problem with pirates and even those who kos in grey sector. Pirates who are discreet can and should work in all areas of the Universe. Indescrimant killers (in my opinion) need to be shoved into grey where they belong.
I dont see that noobs need to be protected from all dangers. If they wander into grey then all bets should be off. Getting killed by being in the wrong place is certainly one way to school them. They should be protected from excessive harm tho.... making the capitols and maybe the adjacent systems fairly secure is likely the best way to go in this regard. Trade, weapons and missions should be tailored towards noobs in theses areas as well to help push the senior players into less secure and more profitable areas....
Genka perhaps if you gave us your version of piracy we might be able to understand it better. Do you really consider destroying ships without contacting the pilot first piracy? Is destroying those who are unable to defend themselves a worthwhile task for a skilled pirate? At what point does piracy become grief? This thread is a discussion of these questions. I have no real problem with pirates and even those who kos in grey sector. Pirates who are discreet can and should work in all areas of the Universe. Indescrimant killers (in my opinion) need to be shoved into grey where they belong.
If you destroy a ship it will drop its cargo, right? So where is your problem to call it piracy? A pirate do not have to contact the ship first. It is up to him. Some of them like to talk first, some of them tend to kill then talk. Learn how to live with it since it is pretty real scenario.
we did pipe in PaKettle. And we do all the time.
An empty moth is worth chasing too, it costs you 150k to replace and then you have to fly it from wherever you were based at. Basically, everything is worth pirating. And if you as a pirate fancy scooping cargo instead of extorting money, feel free to kill the traders on sight.
But in the end that does not sound like your complaint. Your main issue is the killing of newbs in nation space. Most pirates do not do this, the hassle of getting your faction up again kinda limits the fun. No sector anywhere should provide immunity to getting killed but it should be very difficult to get away with it in nation space and around the capitols. Hopefully the very borken faction system will help here
Oh, and the suggested tractor beam thingy? Nah, I don't think so. Easier just to kill the trader then...
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07
An empty moth is worth chasing too, it costs you 150k to replace and then you have to fly it from wherever you were based at. Basically, everything is worth pirating. And if you as a pirate fancy scooping cargo instead of extorting money, feel free to kill the traders on sight.
But in the end that does not sound like your complaint. Your main issue is the killing of newbs in nation space. Most pirates do not do this, the hassle of getting your faction up again kinda limits the fun. No sector anywhere should provide immunity to getting killed but it should be very difficult to get away with it in nation space and around the capitols. Hopefully the very borken faction system will help here
Oh, and the suggested tractor beam thingy? Nah, I don't think so. Easier just to kill the trader then...
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07
The pirates are typically the more experienced players, and so I feel that the burden of game mechanics should rest on the pirate. There is no need for tractor beams, dialog boxes, etc... if you give the pirate the right tools to do the job. In this case, the pirate just needs a means to detect when a player is attempting to log out or explode, so they may react accordingly. This should greatly reduce the paranoia of pirates that their prey will abuse game mechanics to avoid legitimate conflict.
Uncle agrees with what Azumi says. And not just because she told him to.
The only thing I'd like to see would be a weapon that disables an opponents engines for 60-180 seconds. And even I think that such a weapon would be bad for VO. Maybe when more experienced players have a reason to trade again, it would be worth seriously suggesting, but not now. Probably the most useful thing would be sector voice chat. Typing isn't flying and not flying is them escaping.
I know what your saying Roda. Though I can't recall a single one thats logged or /exploded on me that still plays.
The only thing I'd like to see would be a weapon that disables an opponents engines for 60-180 seconds. And even I think that such a weapon would be bad for VO. Maybe when more experienced players have a reason to trade again, it would be worth seriously suggesting, but not now. Probably the most useful thing would be sector voice chat. Typing isn't flying and not flying is them escaping.
I know what your saying Roda. Though I can't recall a single one thats logged or /exploded on me that still plays.
It isn't that traders abuse the game mechanics all the time, it is that some pirates are a tad trigger happy on the concern that they might.
A simple change like letting a pirate know when his selected target is attempting to log or explode, should fix this problem.
Newbs just need a little hand holding to type in the payment options, and this will give our friendly neighborhood pirates the opportunity to properly service our newer members.
A simple change like letting a pirate know when his selected target is attempting to log or explode, should fix this problem.
Newbs just need a little hand holding to type in the payment options, and this will give our friendly neighborhood pirates the opportunity to properly service our newer members.
the box is for the noobs benefit. it will speed things up a lot and prevent a lot of early mistakes. The pirate would never see the box....
I dont have a problem with the log-out warning for %target%. Is explode really a problem?...
Sounds like a great idea Roda.
BTW a way to turn the box on and off would be a good feature as well
And Azumi moths are only 70k ....The pirates really need to re-figure things to the new economy. Money is a bit harder to make and it is rather easy to simply avoid a pirate...
I dont have a problem with the log-out warning for %target%. Is explode really a problem?...
Sounds like a great idea Roda.
BTW a way to turn the box on and off would be a good feature as well
And Azumi moths are only 70k ....The pirates really need to re-figure things to the new economy. Money is a bit harder to make and it is rather easy to simply avoid a pirate...
sounds like PAMALOT got WORMED :)
JohnGoodman: I didn't want to put a name out there, but it was WORM that missled me.
PAMALOT, WORM is a twit to the rest of us as well.
70k is fine PaKettle, I am not much in the business of buying those hulks so thank you for the correction. I am assuming that it is empty here... As Scooby found out two days ago, even though you fly an inexpensive ship (in his case a cent worth 20k, his figure), when you have been boomed enough times the price tag WILL rise to the measly 200k that a friendly neighbourhood pirate asks politely for. If you want to trade that route for the day, it is probably easier to pay for that protection. Money is seriously not hard to make...
Uncle; noted. Can I ride on your knee now?
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07
70k is fine PaKettle, I am not much in the business of buying those hulks so thank you for the correction. I am assuming that it is empty here... As Scooby found out two days ago, even though you fly an inexpensive ship (in his case a cent worth 20k, his figure), when you have been boomed enough times the price tag WILL rise to the measly 200k that a friendly neighbourhood pirate asks politely for. If you want to trade that route for the day, it is probably easier to pay for that protection. Money is seriously not hard to make...
Uncle; noted. Can I ride on your knee now?
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07
To sum up:
Newbs need a little more support and information from the VO community as a whole. (granted they should 'ask' for it, instead of having to be told for pity's sake)
Tractor beams or any other method of stopping one or both players in a potential confrontation is out. This breaks the game mechanics and is easily subject to abuse by groups of pirates. (kinda reminds me of FF I)
PaKettle: Moths are already very easy for any pirate to catch.
There are two types of pirating: old-fashioned gentleman's pirating and ruthless pirating.
The classical pirate wants it to be a game where they 'convince' you to part with your cash or cargo (treasure); they are well-mannered, patient and given to teaching their targets something about the game when possible. (they are also in it for repeat business should the occasion arise)
The ruthless pirate is after your cargo and your fear. They want to be famous for their lack of compassion, fighting prowess and will not always ask for money/cargo. The best defense against them may be to make a bind that will hail them and tell them you will pay for your life. This will slow them from booming you on sight, and you may escape with your cargo. Just remember, money is not their biggest concern, so you will have to offer a lot.
If you are being pirated by someone with a guild tag, remember that their guild usually has guidelines that they are strongly encouraged to follow. If you know the guild to be reputable, and the player is not representing that, you can contact guild leaders and have them reprimanded, or at least get the guidelines cleared up for you. Guilds don't generally want to be marked as a bunch of ass clowns unless they are trying to be.
I think that covers it, sry for the long post.
-R IBA 3.14rat
PS- I will be back someday...
Newbs need a little more support and information from the VO community as a whole. (granted they should 'ask' for it, instead of having to be told for pity's sake)
Tractor beams or any other method of stopping one or both players in a potential confrontation is out. This breaks the game mechanics and is easily subject to abuse by groups of pirates. (kinda reminds me of FF I)
PaKettle: Moths are already very easy for any pirate to catch.
There are two types of pirating: old-fashioned gentleman's pirating and ruthless pirating.
The classical pirate wants it to be a game where they 'convince' you to part with your cash or cargo (treasure); they are well-mannered, patient and given to teaching their targets something about the game when possible. (they are also in it for repeat business should the occasion arise)
The ruthless pirate is after your cargo and your fear. They want to be famous for their lack of compassion, fighting prowess and will not always ask for money/cargo. The best defense against them may be to make a bind that will hail them and tell them you will pay for your life. This will slow them from booming you on sight, and you may escape with your cargo. Just remember, money is not their biggest concern, so you will have to offer a lot.
If you are being pirated by someone with a guild tag, remember that their guild usually has guidelines that they are strongly encouraged to follow. If you know the guild to be reputable, and the player is not representing that, you can contact guild leaders and have them reprimanded, or at least get the guidelines cleared up for you. Guilds don't generally want to be marked as a bunch of ass clowns unless they are trying to be.
I think that covers it, sry for the long post.
-R IBA 3.14rat
PS- I will be back someday...
Just for the record:
First off please dont assume my opinions here are the way I personally play VO. This forum is about what is best for VO and not what is in my personal best interest. If later on I decide to start a pirate then I will plunder my way to success. If I choose to be Itani then sercos better run like heck....
Here however, I concern myself with what is best for the overall game. It is in fact in my own best interest to do so. Eventually I will sample all that VO has to offer and I want the experiance to be a good one across the board. If any of my posts sound beligerant it is a lack of eloquence on my part.
Second The main point of this thread is the protection of noobs. I was once a new player and much of the experiance was rather painfull at times. VO has a large number of controls and options and it takes a while just to simply learn how to drive the ships. Any expectation that a noob can even msg you is a bad one. If Vo is to grow then senior players must step up and help the noobs along even while pirating them. Some have in fact tried and I deeply respect them for it. I am not a noob now and If I cant keep up then it is my problem.
Consider this. Right now VO has only about 1000 players or so with around 20 to 40 actively playing at a given time. Soon that number may grow 100 times larger. Imagine the game when you have 200 or more pirates running around constantly. Worse, imagine 100 WORM's running around in gray sectors...Not even the pirates will want to be in gray....
{8O
Azumi:
you wanted to know why I wont pay in-game. OK for the record and for real.
Pirates all over charge. as I said moths are maybe 70 k empty. I admit I am in no position to fight back when I am in a moth, BUT once you do pop me I will be returning in something else...and fully armed. You claim it is Cheaper to pay - not really, Inco is the only player to cost me over 200k in a single day.On average I lose only about 50k per day. As a trader it is cheaper to fight and go elsewhere. You also have to remember that some days I get pirated by several players. The demands literally add up to a few million credits which is a lot harder and slower to earn these days. Sorry but You are not getting all my profits. No matter how many times you kill me it is still cheaper overall to fight.
BUT more importantly Because nobody bothered to hail and wait while I was a noob I will never allow you to make a buck off of me now if I can help it. I do not need to pay anymore. Dont like it? TOO BAD - It is your own doing so live with it just as I have had too.
It is unfortunate that there are so many who choose to play with no sense of honor, decency or fair play. Many of them are in fact wearing [CLM] tags. If you really feel that CLM is being treated unfairly then first get your members under control and use some self restraint especially when dealing with noobs. I find it very disturbing when I hear CLM members openly discussing going noobing on the 10th. CLM's life blood is the presence of players in gray sector and without noobs gray will remain pretty much empty. So long as CLM allows itself to be associated with noob killers and such then expect everyone to make life harder. It is infact your own actions that created the turrents and strike forces in the first place.
YOUR CHOICE, YOUR MOVE.
Personally Azumi I like you, you have made a decent go of it. But I still have to KOS you per our "agreement". :}
First off please dont assume my opinions here are the way I personally play VO. This forum is about what is best for VO and not what is in my personal best interest. If later on I decide to start a pirate then I will plunder my way to success. If I choose to be Itani then sercos better run like heck....
Here however, I concern myself with what is best for the overall game. It is in fact in my own best interest to do so. Eventually I will sample all that VO has to offer and I want the experiance to be a good one across the board. If any of my posts sound beligerant it is a lack of eloquence on my part.
Second The main point of this thread is the protection of noobs. I was once a new player and much of the experiance was rather painfull at times. VO has a large number of controls and options and it takes a while just to simply learn how to drive the ships. Any expectation that a noob can even msg you is a bad one. If Vo is to grow then senior players must step up and help the noobs along even while pirating them. Some have in fact tried and I deeply respect them for it. I am not a noob now and If I cant keep up then it is my problem.
Consider this. Right now VO has only about 1000 players or so with around 20 to 40 actively playing at a given time. Soon that number may grow 100 times larger. Imagine the game when you have 200 or more pirates running around constantly. Worse, imagine 100 WORM's running around in gray sectors...Not even the pirates will want to be in gray....
{8O
Azumi:
you wanted to know why I wont pay in-game. OK for the record and for real.
Pirates all over charge. as I said moths are maybe 70 k empty. I admit I am in no position to fight back when I am in a moth, BUT once you do pop me I will be returning in something else...and fully armed. You claim it is Cheaper to pay - not really, Inco is the only player to cost me over 200k in a single day.On average I lose only about 50k per day. As a trader it is cheaper to fight and go elsewhere. You also have to remember that some days I get pirated by several players. The demands literally add up to a few million credits which is a lot harder and slower to earn these days. Sorry but You are not getting all my profits. No matter how many times you kill me it is still cheaper overall to fight.
BUT more importantly Because nobody bothered to hail and wait while I was a noob I will never allow you to make a buck off of me now if I can help it. I do not need to pay anymore. Dont like it? TOO BAD - It is your own doing so live with it just as I have had too.
It is unfortunate that there are so many who choose to play with no sense of honor, decency or fair play. Many of them are in fact wearing [CLM] tags. If you really feel that CLM is being treated unfairly then first get your members under control and use some self restraint especially when dealing with noobs. I find it very disturbing when I hear CLM members openly discussing going noobing on the 10th. CLM's life blood is the presence of players in gray sector and without noobs gray will remain pretty much empty. So long as CLM allows itself to be associated with noob killers and such then expect everyone to make life harder. It is infact your own actions that created the turrents and strike forces in the first place.
YOUR CHOICE, YOUR MOVE.
Personally Azumi I like you, you have made a decent go of it. But I still have to KOS you per our "agreement". :}
crap..... I actually agree with the trader. MUST GO WASH NOW;)
I don't mind ppl that don't pay, I just don't hail them then. Whether you pay or get boomed is all good to me. I'll just sell your cargoes. If you come back in a combat ship afterwards, sweet. Then you add to my kill list.
The "hardcore" grey traders make maybe 20-40 runs with a belly full of cargo, each worth a lot of moneys. Granted, if you only do one or two runs it is cheaper to try and run, but otherwise it is clever to pay. But..... It is your choice and not one that I or anyone else blaims you for.
If anyone has any issues with CLM (apart from us pirating you..) please air them on our webby (http://clm-vo.com/) and we will look into it.
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07, PaKettle KOS and proud of it
Darn, PS: If you want to be Itani, it is not the Serco that will have to run. It is you that will have to run, it kinda goes with the tag...;)
I don't mind ppl that don't pay, I just don't hail them then. Whether you pay or get boomed is all good to me. I'll just sell your cargoes. If you come back in a combat ship afterwards, sweet. Then you add to my kill list.
The "hardcore" grey traders make maybe 20-40 runs with a belly full of cargo, each worth a lot of moneys. Granted, if you only do one or two runs it is cheaper to try and run, but otherwise it is clever to pay. But..... It is your choice and not one that I or anyone else blaims you for.
If anyone has any issues with CLM (apart from us pirating you..) please air them on our webby (http://clm-vo.com/) and we will look into it.
Azumi, Pirating for CLM in Hello Kitty style since '07, PaKettle KOS and proud of it
Darn, PS: If you want to be Itani, it is not the Serco that will have to run. It is you that will have to run, it kinda goes with the tag...;)
About /explode... that it's purely game mechanics is bogus. I'm sure in "real life" really crazy traders might have self-destruct mechanisms on their ships. They'd also have escape pods, and flee while their ship asplodes, but the idea that it's abusing game mechanics is odd. Logging off is ridiculous though.
I dont have any problems with a logoff notice on targetted player... it seems a reasonable feature.
A different solution would be to not count player kills if the player is say 20 levels or more lower and prevent drops. ie 4/4/4/4/4 differance.
I would simply prevent the noobs from drops untill combat 3 is obtained in all situations... it would save a fair bit of programming...
A different solution would be to not count player kills if the player is say 20 levels or more lower and prevent drops. ie 4/4/4/4/4 differance.
I would simply prevent the noobs from drops untill combat 3 is obtained in all situations... it would save a fair bit of programming...