Forums » Suggestions

Please up the station storage limit

Nov 12, 2008 blacknet link
50k is way to restrictive for station storage limits and I am asking please up the limit to 100k cu's.
Nov 12, 2008 incarnate link
Why?
Nov 12, 2008 Aramarth link
Because he is too lazy to spread out his vast holdings, being a TGFT member.
Nov 12, 2008 blacknet link
ONE person can mine 1,000 cu's from 1 roid in about 20 minutes. If you are mining ores for missions like superlights, widowmakers, bots etc.. you need to mine, stockpile then distribute to the stations where needed. If you are mining in a group that time period is dropped to a small fraction of the time.

50k CU is WAY to restrictive.

1 superlight needs something like 500 cu's of goods to make. If you are hauling goods for superlights, widow, bots, etc.. you have to allow room for other things as well as ore stock.

In a nutshell the 50k limit has terminated the mining and trade convoy's that TGFT has been working on. Add all that together and you may have a small section left over at a decent station to do something with but no room for events at all.
Nov 12, 2008 incarnate link
Er, so, you want to be able to get 200 superlights at a time, instead of 100? Or what?

If you're doing anything group based, your capacity is actually the number of members * 50k each, if you spread stuff around the group.. I would think that'd be plenty.

I'm right in the middle of changing economics numbers, I dropped the capacity specifically because I didn't want people stockpiling or speculating excessively (in anything, ships, addons, trade goods, whatever). We have enough inflation issues as it is, without a bug mispricing a ship for a few days and everyone making a hojillion credits speculating that I'll increase the price. Now they can only make 1/4 of a hojillion, heh.

Can you make a case for exactly how this negates your Events?

Would any other TGFT members like to comment on this?
Nov 12, 2008 vardonx link
The hoarders need to clean out their storage or move stuff around. 50k per station means that on average a player has 150k of storage in a single system.

Since bulk trading isn't an issue any more, I don't see what the issue is really is with the 50k limit?
Nov 12, 2008 diqrtvpe link
Well, as a non-TGFT member who is interested in the subject, I would make a couple points. It's true that your group capacity is number of members*50k, but if you all get there, drop off your stuff, and then the next day Real Life calls one of those members away unexpectedly and for a good deal of time you've effectively just lost all that work. That effects things like guilds stockpiling for selling superlights so that individuals don't have to, and also the more general issue of guild stockpiles. If you were able to designate a certain amount of cargo to be shared among a person or persons, that would greatly take the heat off, and it would make sense in an RP perspective as well, people banding together to buy larger storage areas than just one could access. Obviously that would probably take awhile to implement, but it would address multiple facets of the issue.

To more directly answer how it would negate an Event, there's only so much space. Granted, this was true before, but with the unrealistic astronomical limits it didn't really matter. Now it's quite easy to fill up a station in a short time if you're really trying. This brings up some opposing forces: first of all you have players and guilds providing Content for each other in the form of Events, which helps generate more interest and activity in the game. Secondly you have said players and guilds building up stockpiles of items required to make other items, both in place now and projected for the future. For the ones in place now, a good case could be made for this realistically capping supply to match demand (not many people are buying SL kits, so the stockpiles mostly just grow, which this is now stopping). However, they are also looking to the future with stations and capships and who knows what all that is going to require for purchase/manufacture and upkeep. I'm not sure how you want to strike that balance, but it is certainly one that is relevant.
Nov 12, 2008 incarnate link
I'm not terribly concerned about helping people stockpile goods for future items that haven't been invented yet, although I appreciate the appeal.

However, the point about having guild-related storage is reasonable. We could add larger guild storage, with the caveat that it will be substantially more expensive per cu than per-user storage rent.

As of my analysis a few months ago, only a small percentage of our active subscriber base was impacted even by the reduction in limits (less than 10%). So I don't think this complaint has universal applicability. This sounds mostly like a "TGFT thing". I'm not against doing stuff to help our guilds and expand their ability to hold interesting Events and the like; I just wanted to make this point.. most of my other scheduled work is towards doing changes that have as broad an impact as possible on the entire playerbase.

So anyway, returning to the point, I could add really-expensive large-scale guild-specific storage. It would function as a way to keep Events moving, while also providing a money sink. I am not terribly attracted to expanding per-user limits at this time, unless someone can marshal a better argument for it.

Further thoughts on this topic?
Nov 12, 2008 blacknet link
Well mining ore is free. Buying trade goods is not. If the limit is to stop a bajillion credits from future price increases then mined ore would be exempt from that no? Possible to exclude mined ore from the limit or give them unique limits? Say X limit on trade goods and Y limit on ore. Could also do mining stations can hold more ore than non-mining stations if you wanted.
Nov 12, 2008 incarnate link
Mined ore has the some potential for problems as everything else. As I change sell prices, something may happen causing valuation to be artificially high.. or whatever else. I'm having enough trouble doing batch-changes to the economy as it is.

Additionally, I just don't think it's that critical for people to have 23984932894328932cu of ores in a single station. The guild Event case is reasonable, and has other benefits in the sense of a money sink, etc. Personal per-user storage space? No, that's going to be the point of player stations, and there's no real need for it at present, unless someone can make a new argument that hasn't been presented yet.

Generally speaking, while I'm in the middle of fiddling with the valuation and purpose of all goods, ores and minerals in the entire game, I do not want people stockpiling. I respect that some people still want this, so I dropped it to what I thought was a reasonable limit, per person, per station (50k). I considered far smaller limits than that.
Nov 12, 2008 diqrtvpe link
Heh, yeah, the point about stockpiling for future developments was sort of off-hand, I included it in there out of a sense of fairness, and my main point was the juxtaposition of fun events and over-storage overwhelming demand. From where I'm standing, large-scale guild-specific storage would be fantastic (assuming it would work basically the same way as the current rental system works, in terms of what happens if you stop paying/run out of money, etc), and it would also give larger organizations something to do with their money that's useful. Maybe set it up like the guild banks where the CO gets to set the various permission levels (who can rent space, who can drop stuff off there, who can pick stuff up) with a log to help keep track. Maybe cu withdrawal limits, like the bank withdrawal limits.

Anyway, I'm sure you already have ideas about how you'd implement it, just ruminating on it a bit. I am greatly looking forward to the changes you're going to introduce, Inc, and personally I'm also a big fan of the recent stuff that's come out as well.
Nov 12, 2008 blacknet link
Will the limit go back up after the changes are out?

Also with the change to the trade stuff what's the point of mining now?
Nov 12, 2008 incarnate link
diqr: cool.

blacknet: More expansion options may appear once the economy is stabilized, which I think is what your first question is asking. That may be some months. I'm mostly looking at player stations for major space usage.

As for your second question.. the point of mining is the same as it was before. If you have some criticism of mining with the new trade changes, post it in another thread. But please actually explain what it is you're talking about, and cite real-world examples in depth.
Nov 13, 2008 Walhalla link
Possibly a dumb question,

but would it be possible to set as a guild a certain percentage of personal storage as overall GUILD storage. Simply meaning that everyone within the guild could access it and thus could withdraw from it. Or that the person from whom the guild space is could assign access to certain members (a drop down menu that you can tag) It would stop the case where someone has to log out and thus can't withdraw the items to give to the guild anymore.

The balancing factor in this is that doing this you would lose (part of) your own personal storage space. So people wouldn't do this if they didn't trust each other or if it wasn't for a guild event. And there would be no need for a higher cu cost since in essence all your doing is lumping your own cargo space together and giving other people the access key (or bank account wise, you give person x, y and z authorisation to deposit and withdraw ) for it

Maybe one would need to set a certain number the first time they enter this station, ergo 20% (percent wise) or 20000cu (absolute number) or... (and can change it afterwards). And one can simply use a tab page to deposit the inventory in the guild stock or the personal stock.

Both sides are happy.