Smitty et al,

Don't get me wrong... I've spent plenty of time chasing runners, spammers who run, d!c%heads who fire off a couple tubes of seekers then run away...

and you're right: In even the fastest ship ingame, it's difficult to catch them if they run.

Now, I've spent hours with others, coordinating the utter destruction of a 'runner', chasing them through multiple sectors, finding where they were hiding, cutting off their escape routes....

But then again, I've taken an Atlas X loaded with CtC ore and ran from Edras to Pyronis with the entire ITAN guild chasing me. Sometimes I made it.

In both cases, I personally had a blast.

What I'm trying to say is, the balance of the 'chasing' vs 'catching' isn't always going to be in your favor, but don't screw up the game just because someone pissed you off once or twice.

Like Aramarth said, please don't let the continued discussion stop you from implementing the variable max turbo speed. That would add such an awesome layer of emersion because traders might actually drop their cargo!

It would be nifty if coupled with warp-canceling was ships needing to stop fully before initiating the jump.

*sigh*

Therre is NOT a very big profit in trading. Honestly, in most cases traders are getting, maybe, 5%

If you prevent running (which can often be edgey)that will destroy even the small profit margin traders get.

This game NEEDS traders, as much as it needs pirates... If you are going to make running hard enough to make trading through grey completely unattractive, you should seriously consider increasing the payoff for tradeable items in those grey sectors BIG time... enough that one successful trip can pay for getting pirated 2-3 times before it is successful. Return trips as well.

Applause The Shedu, perfectly said.

Please, do not cripple the ship's ability to fly. Tapping turbo will be pain destroying the pleasure from flying and maneuvering. Also think of botters.

I have spent last few days chasing players. Yes, it is hard. It is hard as it has to be.

It's not about the % profit.. it's about the profit/cu. There are 3000c/cu profit in-system traderoutes. That's a LOT of money.

perhaps we should clarify exactly what issue we are discussing here. Although the title say "runners", i somehow was under the impression that it was about driveby shooters, not traders. All of my suggestions where to limit those who flee from a battle that they fist choose to engage in, with minimal impact on those who try to avoid combat in the first place. two very different issues in my own mind. to the point that i feel that they should be covered in separate threads. if this thread is about limiting traders, then i have been forwarding the wrong set of suggestions.

Preventing "interceptor" ships from catching traders is unrealistic (cargo vessels on the planet I live on tend to be rather awkward beasts), discourages player cooperation (escorting), and leaves untapped a potential source of renewable excitement (meeting threats/opportunities).

Nation space defenses have been ramped up. As I understand it they will continue to be made stronger. And, eventually, unlawful places will yield richer profits. Accordingly, all measures of players will have a borough to be cozy in; you will be able to take on what challenges you like and be rewarded for tackling the harder ones.

Vendetta Online can be pretty fun to play as is so we can expect some vocal conservatism. I don't think that anyone can casually discount the dissatisfaction many many of us have on this issue.

Running military ships is another discussion.

EZR has done a bit of it all.. My 2cu worth..

Quite honestly. I think it's far too easy for the traders to get away. It shouldn't be impossible to get away, eiher tho..

Moth? dead meat to a determined pirate.
Maud? 50/50 chance of getaway.
'Taur? same as the maud.

You wanna trade in grey? Either use a maud/taur, or hire a couple (or three) escorts.

From what I understand, soon(tm) trade routes in grey will be profitable enough to make hiring said escorts a viable option to someone hauling a mothload of goods, while still being able to make decent money to the more daring, using the maud or centaurs

EZR

Bump... there is an alarming number of players taking advantage of the TPG Atlas for impossible-to-stop hit and run attacks. Please can we get some fix, any fix, now?!

Um, why the uptick in "alarming" numbers? Atlases don't cost that much, and have had no stat changes.

when it comes to "impossible-to-stop hit and run attacks", more than zero can be an alarming number. i am being serious, and sarcastic, at the same time.

there are many ships that are good at hit and run. the atlas x just exemplifies the problem, with a disconcerting combination of acceleration, top speed, infiniboost, large port, and cargo space.

at least it is expensive.

I hear alot of peope complaining about runners, and trying to find that one "Win" button.

How many people here are taking into account the fact that any of the good trading vessels fly like a brick? A good example is the moth; If you knock it out of a jump, or cancel its turbo, its toast. As-is, running in a moth is a pain, since the top speed is just barely higher than that of the basic bus.

Hiring escorts is a nice idea, but honestly how many times do you think a newbie will have the money to do that, or someone making a long run will be able to find someone to do the amazingly boring job of baby-sitting a massive ship while it crawls its way to another system? If we had a larger playerbase it would make more sense, but unless trading ships have something to defend themselves with, this would throw things out of balance as far as the pirate-trader relationship is concerned.

Honestly my problem is so much less with runners from a fight right now than hit-and-run people that do nothing but take down your health and force expensive repairs. The rise in "alarming" numbers is from...I don't know. All I know is that I can name a number of people that have been related to this issue RECENTLY that I have not seen before, so maybe it's just an issue related to a surge of a new players. Whatever, I don't know if it really matters WHY an exploit is happening? It's just because there are jerks in this world who will take advantage of an opportunity to ruin other peoples' fun. This is not an Arolite situation where someone is using a well functioned feature of VO to annoy other people, this is people taking advantage of the easy-running loophole to piss off other players.

The problem is exactly that Atlases have had no stat changes. They are, in their current state, just like they used to be, perfect for this annoying bitchy tactic. The "increase" must just be blind luck of getting new people who have less respect for other players as a whole.

[edit]
There doesn't need to be a "win" button, I've accepted that light ships will be able to run and in the future there will be things like contested sectors ETC that don't make a PK the ultimate goal of the fight. My problem is just with people who can use unbalanced ships COMBINED WITH this unbalanced ease of running to be annoying. So let's please implement the mass-slows-you-down-a-shitload thing, as well as changing ship stats to get rid of a perfect hit and run ship, and then everything will work perfectly! Please, I beg you, having been here five years at $10 a month when I thought that was what you wanted and then subscribing in year bursts when I found out the money up front is what you need! Please just fix this as soon as you can there have been so many good suggestions here, just ticket that shit!

The entire issue revolves around the use of ammo weapons. In one of these running threads, someone suggested making mass-beyond-empty affect acceleration in a scaled fashion. That would solve the problem- because hit-and-run tactics revolve around ammo weapons. Three sun racks or a swarm rack cost a lot in mass, and would clearly be the hardest gear to try and run with as a result.

that would stop Most hit and runners, but the one yesterday that prompted my post was using an atlas with energy. He wasn't getting many kills, but he was succeeding in his goal of being incredibly annoying.

The problem is with these new ideas, is that it just adds to the devs HUGE list of things to consider...

We need the devs to make clones of themselves.. :P

That would be nice. Although I'd probably get into arguments with all of my clones.

Of course it's all more work. But that's not a reason to not implement a fix.

Aramarth: "someone suggested making mass-beyond-empty affect acceleration in a scaled fashion"

I believe that was inc, or one of the devs. and i do agree that high mass ammo based weapons should receive more penalty to acceleration than low mass energy weapons.