and yet you didnt address a single point Bojey. well allow me to simplify it even further for your apparently peurile little pseudo mind...

the examples were of military/militaristic strategies in place in many developed nations. no we are not in real life when we enter VO. we are in a science fiction based game where there happens to be a war in that all parties have a stake in. the Itani/Serco war touches all corners of the universe and any player who takes on missions.

why is it that when ever some one suggests a legitimate tactic or strategy...people start whining

person A=hey heres a strategy from life that would work here.
whiner=VO isnt real life and realistic strategy has no place here...sob...moan...sob
person A=ok well then how about we use magical unicorn guns that shoot flaming balls of glitter...sarcasam
whiner=well since thats not real it should be ok
person A=i swear im hunting this whiny *&!&^@ down in game!

as for the game play value of realistic tactics and stratagems in game...imersion, fun and challenge. I play VO because as MMOs go I prefer the scifi. as scifi is fiction based on science..ergo, some of the aspects of the game are realistic. I dont know if you have engaged in any type combat in VO, but if you have you have used strategies. as the combat takes place in flight capable craft shances are you have used real life tactics.

if people wanted completely unrealistic games with no ties what so ever to tactics or stratagies found in real life...they would wait for...SMURFS THE ONLINE GAME OF SMURFING...which just so there is no confussion, I made up.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand back on track.

I maintain that a few turrets subtracted from the nation side and added to the Grey side would be a good/fun/challenging/immersive idea.

it would only really work for UIT right now though as they are flanked by Grey space. and just to appease...UIT has stations in Grey space. UIT has colonized Grey space and has a right to defend its interests. this would also give UIT traders/traders who dealt with UIT some much needed defense on cargo runs as the turrets are as much there to protect nation space as they are there to protect nation citizens.

long live UIT imperialism!

I think the current system of monitoring most useful sectors in these systems is fine. The idea that every vacant sector in there is blanketed with sensors is just silly.

Considering the nature of the mining bots, I think it is both realistic and consistent with the VO lore to have some systems completely blanketed with sensors. We already have self-replicating machines established as viable for mining activity, even if they're not quite completely reliable. Given that the nation home systems have been occupied for thousands of years, there's really no reason that they couldn't have completely saturated the local space with unmanned automatic sensor drones. When you've got centuries to work on something, you tend to be able to make significant progress, especially when dealing with machines that increase in number akin to microbial population curves.

To me, it thus makes perfect sense for systems that have been occupied for centuries to have extensive monitoring networks. It also makes sense for said systems to be fairly resource-poor as a consequence, as nearly all useful materials have already been acquired and put to use. Combined, these two consequences of long-term habitation should make the core systems of the nations very safe, yet unrewarding to stay in.

Sure, you can idle safely in any part of the system more or less indefinitely, but the return on your investment of time will be meager. All possible demands for goods that are produced in-system will be quickly and easily met, so there's hardly enough profit from in-system trade to cover a scratch on your paint. The useful minerals have long since been depleted, leaving only slag and the commonest of the common. It's a nice, safe haven to learn the basics, but if you want to ever get anything worthwhile, you'll have to leave the cocoon. Bring in those rare ores from the fringes of explored space, and take those manufactured goods to the stations being built on the frontier- just hope that nobody of low moral fiber notices you along the way.

I think Dr.Lector and IRS both have good points. seeding enpty sectors with sensors would be a bit odd but they could if they really wanted to.

what about if WH and station sectors as well as any sector directly "touching" the WH/station sector were "completely blanketed with sensors" where as the empty sectors were simply patrolled by a detachment of strike force?
think like a convoy but strictly military shipsflying around, jumping to random sectors unless of course they are in pursuit.

which would actually be a pretty cool and challenging bit of skill for the pilot pursued...being chased by say five or so strike force and to finally get to saftey,they mustget past the turrets...and if theres station in the WH sector, another strike force.

it would be difficult and challenging...but it would be doable.

and maybe lead to a new badge? Spy, Saboteur, or Blockade Runner?
plus pretty decent "bragging rights"

I'm thinking that the turret models need to be made... larger. The current models are the same size if not SMALLER than the gauss bolts they fire. Doesn't seem right that capital class weapons are mounted on a hull smaller than an EC yet still have the armor to hold off several power cells of neutron fire.

I agree on turrets on the other side of a border in the WH sector and the idea of a smaller WH area/volume. I also like a patrolling strike force in unmonitored sectors of capitol, or otherwise important systems. And a real, more complex faction system is badly needed.

edit: with border defenses on faction/gray borders, maybe return AI pirates that would occasionally try to get past?

Er, if the capital systems have sensors and turrets everywhere, why would there ever be any hive in a capital sector since they are "enemies" as well?

As for the missiles being capital class weapons, the missiles on cap ships are in now way as uber as the missiles on the turrets. If they were BS would be a fight between bots only as no real player would survive.

I'm not so hung up on where and how many they are, but *please* be technologically consistent.

For example : Making uber missiles to fill a void that have capabilities far exceeding any other missile/rocket in game is not consistent. Putting a ton of launchers that use the current cap ship missile technology is.

BTW, I agree with however said the gauss was ok as is.

as far as I understand it the turrets are only at worm holes and capitol stations. the sensors being talked about im in favor but only at strategic points, everything else could just be randomly player/NPC patrolled...lol, gives it a bit of "government realism" like that border between Maine and Canada thats patrolled by 1 state trooper..."when he has the time."

Somehow this feedback got completely off track.

Bear in mind that, as Incarnate said, border defenses are a prerequisite to FACTION SYSTEM changes.

1. So, Is border defense installed in Verasi 0-7 effective?
In my opinion, given the current state VO is in, its effective.

2. Should there be defense turrets on the grey space side of WH leading to border stations?
I can think of a few reasons why not:
I. gray space is not nation territory so placing lone automatic defense turrets there would look silly. Argument that exiting nation space would be easier for KOS pilot also doesn't hold water because those turrets in gray would instakill him upon exiting wh.
II. If you place a military outpost there to provide a SF backup to turrets we are going back in time. We had that before and that grey sector de facto becomes nation space once again.

3. Should new defense system be implemented at all nation borders and around capitol sectors?
Yes.

4. Why?
Because it is a prerequisite for a new FACTION SYSTEM implementation and
we have been waiting for this to happen (soon) for 4 (four) long years now.

5. Why is NEW FACTION SYSTEM important?
Because it will turn VO into a real RP game and allow much needed addition of new game content.

P.S.
@Ryan Reign
I will not dignify your childish outburst with an answer. This thread is too important to be hijacked.

We aren't talking about monitoring every sector in every border system or something else that ridiculous. I'm simply stating that newb zones should be nigh impossible to mess around in, which is a gameplay dynamic that any game needs in order to ease the learning curve.

I don't care what the pirates want to do in Verasi, Nyrius, or Azek. But they shouldn't be able to touch Dau and Arta without losing a ship for every kill.
Same goes for the other capital systems. It was sinfully easy for me to kill Itani newbs in Eo and Divinia.

Leave the home system and it is game on like VO today. Newb zones, however, have got to be 'unrealistically' hard to score a kill in.

I'd say O-7 is still a tad too easy to penetrate. Just a little. A good test would be to try to have a trident run through the border. If it can make it, the defenses aren't good enough.

On a more storyline point, Serco space defense lines ought to be much more powerful, right? Proportional to the military advantage they have, maybe even double in size. That said, Deneb Itani defenses need to be impenetrable to any Serco player-owned capship. Period.

We aren't talking about monitoring every sector in every border system or something else that ridiculous. I'm simply stating that newb zones should be nigh impossible to mess around in, which is a gameplay dynamic that any game needs in order to ease the learning curve.

That's not the ideal that VO has striven for in the past--relatively more protected, yes. "Neigh impossible," no, as that gets too close to the "safe zone" concept that has been deliberately avoided.

That said, I don't see how leaving sectors without any rocks or bots in them as unmonitored, even in capitol systems, really hurts the n00bs. They're already protected in any part of that system they wish to go for missions, exploring, etc. They can and should be warned that venturing into the Void isn't the safest idea.

Serco defense lines will need to be a little more powerful--let's face it, the Valk >>>> the Prom for gate crashing.

I Have only one thing to add, Arta Caelestis has the UIT capital Stations.

Responding to Lecter: The capitol systems should have full monitoring because new players do go to all sectors in those systems. They're deliberately routed to empty sectors in the tutorial missions, and I expect a sane government to conduct said training operations with some form of supervision in all areas they ask you to go. However, I do agree that full protection is simply ridiculous, and that a sufficiently determined and skilled player should be able to raise hell for a while.

And finally, to refine my earlier concept- I don't see the sensors as being anything as complex as the turrets, and I don't think randomly dispersing stationary weapon platforms over a system is a practical method of providing protection. What I envision is a "Holy big numbers Batman!" quantity of incredibly dumb and mostly inert sensor bricks. All they do is sit there with a little solar cell, an ID number, a transmitter, and a motion detector/radar unit, waiting for something to move quickly enough/close by enough to trigger them. When such activity takes place, the brick starts screaming its number and a direction, alerting a somewhat less dumb and more developed regional sensor satellite, which would swing around and take a closer look at whatever was making the brick cry. IFF systems kick in and the object is categorized as friend/foe/other, and it passes the information on if needed. Simple, effective with the right density, and infinitely scalable- everything needed to cover a whole system if you're willing to wait a few generations for enough sensors to be made and distributed by your mining bots (which hopefully are making sensors, and not plans for universal domination).

I'd even go so far as to say that this sensor webwork would be one of the main factors in determining exactly who "owns" a system. Until a certain percentage of the system is monitored in such a fashion, it's still "up for grabs". If you build the bastions of civilization, you get the territory.

just to clear up any confusion...(I thought it was obvious but it seems its not obvious to every one)...when I proposed 4 turrets flanking worm holes leading from Grey to UIT, it is NOT to prevent pirates/hostiles from leaving, as that would be ridiculous, like trying to trap a murderer in your home. most people, new players especially would agree that pirates/hostiles should be removed from nation space as effiently and quickly as can be done.
the four turrets proposed on the Grey sides of WHs, is a first line of defense to KEEP them OUT, thus providing a multi layerd security system to protect the border. or at the least...(worst case, soften up any hostile groupings trying to get through. in military terms sort of a "forward observer" that would attempt to stop enemies and failing that, alert the other side of the worm hole.

I hope that clears up any missinterpretations of the idea.

wuestion for IRS...would the sensors be destroyable? just curious because that could also lead to new typs of missions, either at stations or for groups/guilds

I want to be able to blow up IRS's sensor bricks.

Actually, thats not such a bad idea.

Yes, they would be destroyable, and quite easily so- they'd be like Observer bots except less advanced. They work through sheer numbers, which is a big part of what makes the idea viable- you can have considerable random failures and not lose much overall effectiveness. However, if the failures are not random (i.e. somebody's out blowing up the bricks) then certain regions could indeed drop off the charts and become unmonitored until a new set could be put in place.

This is actually getting somewhere interesting, and sadly off topic. I'll have to make a new thread, or see if there's an old one I can do some necromancy on. However, my bed beckons, and work looms.

I'm just thinking sector defenses should stop firing at people who are leaving via wormhole, here.