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Burning oil wells is a military tactic for the most part, and hardly a good analogy.
Um, no, it's a perfect analogy. The burning wells, while eventually returnable to their functional state, serve to deny the holder of the territory in which the wells reside their economic value. And in VO, the military and the economy are two sides of the same coin. Obviously, hot rocks don't give off smoke or toxic fumes--but again, that's not the primary reason to pop a well-head and start it burning.
If you want to proposes a military tactic for reducing the opponents means of crafting (or whatever), I think it would be better to suggest a weapon that uses some sort of pulse energy to push your chosen roids out of their orbit, or simply to get them moving relatively quickly in one direction or another. All would lead to the same end result: No roid when the prospector returns to mine it.
Why not stick with something that already exists (heat) and not bother with something we know will never be implemented (moving roids), hmm?
You fail to address the fact that, often, one can destroy the enemy's resources but cannot capture and carry off those same resources. But, as you said, you're not really sure what you're talking about or why you're saying it.
Um, no, it's a perfect analogy. The burning wells, while eventually returnable to their functional state, serve to deny the holder of the territory in which the wells reside their economic value. And in VO, the military and the economy are two sides of the same coin. Obviously, hot rocks don't give off smoke or toxic fumes--but again, that's not the primary reason to pop a well-head and start it burning.
If you want to proposes a military tactic for reducing the opponents means of crafting (or whatever), I think it would be better to suggest a weapon that uses some sort of pulse energy to push your chosen roids out of their orbit, or simply to get them moving relatively quickly in one direction or another. All would lead to the same end result: No roid when the prospector returns to mine it.
Why not stick with something that already exists (heat) and not bother with something we know will never be implemented (moving roids), hmm?
You fail to address the fact that, often, one can destroy the enemy's resources but cannot capture and carry off those same resources. But, as you said, you're not really sure what you're talking about or why you're saying it.
Um, no, it's a perfect analogy. The burning wells, while eventually returnable to their functional state, serve to deny the holder of the territory in which the wells reside their economic value. And in VO, the military and the economy are two sides of the same coin. Obviously, hot rocks don't give off smoke or toxic fumes--but again, that's not the primary reason to pop a well-head and start it burning.
It's a perfect analogy for someone who is advocating the status quo, that is, afk scorching. Not a good analogy for someone trying to make an argument why people should have to sit in front of that oil well for hours and stoke the fire with a 10-25 metre stick.
It's a perfect analogy for someone who is advocating the status quo, that is, afk scorching. Not a good analogy for someone trying to make an argument why people should have to sit in front of that oil well for hours and stoke the fire with a 10-25 metre stick.
Lecter, we haven't agreed much, if at all, in the past, but this is brilliant. Ways to hurt the enemy economically is absolutely needed withing the universe as it stands. Right now, if you lose fifty ships to a large furball, you just go trade or mine for an hour. Thing is, what if while you were distracted, your enemy had his allies ruin your favorite roid? Now those fifty ships actually hurt. Very good one
Of course, this will only work once borders actually mean something, don't you agree, Lecter?
This will make borders mean something.
The time it takes for a roid to cool from high temperatures should also be considered before people start thinking that this is a good idea.
Dr Lecter, the rotating 93 % helio roid that you cooked to 35 000 k has now cooled to about 15 000 k . I estimate that your actions will have rendered that roid unminable for over a year by the time it gets down to 10 k . I suppose the idea of resource denial as part of overall terratorial action has some merit , but limits and countermeasures would need to be introduced first to ensure the game remains playable.
Dr Lecter, the rotating 93 % helio roid that you cooked to 35 000 k has now cooled to about 15 000 k . I estimate that your actions will have rendered that roid unminable for over a year by the time it gets down to 10 k . I suppose the idea of resource denial as part of overall terratorial action has some merit , but limits and countermeasures would need to be introduced first to ensure the game remains playable.
Everyone might not care enough about the economy of opposing nations, but for the few that do, I think this would at least force people to try and explore new sources of certain metals if most in their nation are depleted, or are far too inefficient to harvest for the short term.
Gangs of people with these "quick heater" beams could change the balance of power by forcing only certain areas minable. This would bottle-neck certain miners in need of certain ores to select places. This making mining more interesting due to competition, or even pie-rats staking out these holes in the desert.
See the problem addressed before about the too much money, time, is very true. It's also true that there are just a ridiculous amount of asteroids in this current universe to give two craps about. There are too many. Hopefully when the new economy is up and running, the worthwhile roids will not be absolutely abundant and will be valuable enough to guard and prevent little heater guys coming and killing the roid. Anyway, the point is, it adds depth to the game, no matter what anyone says, it's an idea easy as pie to implement, and could be very interesting to see how the balance of power changes by altering a nations supply of raw materials. For instance, certain ships are made of certain materials. What if say Behemoths required 20 Heliocene to create its engine, but the Centaur only needs 18 Xithricite for it's engine. A group of UIT scumbags come into serco space and heat up all the Helio roids. Obviously the Centaur will take on the primary role in transporting cargo, and will be less efficient. The balance of power will continue to fluctuate as time goes on. Minor changes by the devs may have to come into play before the universe can really get going to the point where no intervention is necessary, and the economy will figure itself out no matter what. Isn't that what we all want to see? A real economy changed by our actions.
For the economy to function as if it were a massive economy, there would need to be bots mining as well as players to add to the working population. Each bot would be treated exactly like a player in regards to ore collection, unless of course, their whole entire nation's sources of ore are depleted, or very very scarce, in which case, the bots should adapt and move to grey space followed by escorts most likely. Or even launch an attack on another nation and take the ore from the sector contested. Even stealing from the hive is an option. Hive ships stealing nation's ore may become a real problem as well, and hence the reason for pushing back the hive...
And it all started from an idea for a new add-on to make roids heat up quicker... funny huh?
Gangs of people with these "quick heater" beams could change the balance of power by forcing only certain areas minable. This would bottle-neck certain miners in need of certain ores to select places. This making mining more interesting due to competition, or even pie-rats staking out these holes in the desert.
See the problem addressed before about the too much money, time, is very true. It's also true that there are just a ridiculous amount of asteroids in this current universe to give two craps about. There are too many. Hopefully when the new economy is up and running, the worthwhile roids will not be absolutely abundant and will be valuable enough to guard and prevent little heater guys coming and killing the roid. Anyway, the point is, it adds depth to the game, no matter what anyone says, it's an idea easy as pie to implement, and could be very interesting to see how the balance of power changes by altering a nations supply of raw materials. For instance, certain ships are made of certain materials. What if say Behemoths required 20 Heliocene to create its engine, but the Centaur only needs 18 Xithricite for it's engine. A group of UIT scumbags come into serco space and heat up all the Helio roids. Obviously the Centaur will take on the primary role in transporting cargo, and will be less efficient. The balance of power will continue to fluctuate as time goes on. Minor changes by the devs may have to come into play before the universe can really get going to the point where no intervention is necessary, and the economy will figure itself out no matter what. Isn't that what we all want to see? A real economy changed by our actions.
For the economy to function as if it were a massive economy, there would need to be bots mining as well as players to add to the working population. Each bot would be treated exactly like a player in regards to ore collection, unless of course, their whole entire nation's sources of ore are depleted, or very very scarce, in which case, the bots should adapt and move to grey space followed by escorts most likely. Or even launch an attack on another nation and take the ore from the sector contested. Even stealing from the hive is an option. Hive ships stealing nation's ore may become a real problem as well, and hence the reason for pushing back the hive...
And it all started from an idea for a new add-on to make roids heat up quicker... funny huh?
Yeah and all that can happen without this 'add-on'.
That roid was heated to North of 110,000K, Ecka, not just to 35,000K. Try not to lie about your facts.
Besides, does the phrase "Wyatt's Torch" mean anything to you?
Besides, does the phrase "Wyatt's Torch" mean anything to you?
I like this resource denial idea. I agree with Ecka that roids should cool to a mineable temperature in a reasonable period of time. How long would be reasonable? A few days?
'Roids already cool to mineable temps in a few days, depending on their size--unless someone has spent days cooking them to insanely high temps, in which case they can be rendered worthless for months or years . . . or until the next sector reset.
I envision this as more of an efficient way to turn many 10K rocks into 400K rocks, rather than a way to get one rock to 100,000K faster. But hey, maybe [TGFT] should be telling us how to run the economy--after all, they're the ones who have to most to gain from keeping things as protected as possible.
It's a perfect analogy for someone who is advocating the status quo, that is, afk scorching. Not a good analogy for someone trying to make an argument why people should have to sit in front of that oil well for hours and stoke the fire with a 10-25 metre stick.
Don't know how I missed this piece of brilliance. Gav, 'roids are inert rocks--not highly pressurized wells of flammable liquid. To heat the 'roids up requires a process, exactly like "stoking the fire"--setting oil wells on fire obviously requires a very different (and much simpler) approach.
The fact that they are destroyed/rendered useless by wildly different means, because of their wildly different nature, has zero bearing on the effect of/reason to render them useless (which is the same for both). I'm not sure how you thought the distinction you were pointing out here was relevant. Maybe you were drunk or something.
The only question is whether it is better to have that process be passive (current AFK system) or active (what I propose).
I envision this as more of an efficient way to turn many 10K rocks into 400K rocks, rather than a way to get one rock to 100,000K faster. But hey, maybe [TGFT] should be telling us how to run the economy--after all, they're the ones who have to most to gain from keeping things as protected as possible.
It's a perfect analogy for someone who is advocating the status quo, that is, afk scorching. Not a good analogy for someone trying to make an argument why people should have to sit in front of that oil well for hours and stoke the fire with a 10-25 metre stick.
Don't know how I missed this piece of brilliance. Gav, 'roids are inert rocks--not highly pressurized wells of flammable liquid. To heat the 'roids up requires a process, exactly like "stoking the fire"--setting oil wells on fire obviously requires a very different (and much simpler) approach.
The fact that they are destroyed/rendered useless by wildly different means, because of their wildly different nature, has zero bearing on the effect of/reason to render them useless (which is the same for both). I'm not sure how you thought the distinction you were pointing out here was relevant. Maybe you were drunk or something.
The only question is whether it is better to have that process be passive (current AFK system) or active (what I propose).
Lecter is eloquent as always. I must agree with him; if nothing else, you'll have plenty more rocks to mine when we get more systems in the near, not so distant future.
Mynt, that is not true. Only if borders mean something does this idea have merit. Right now, it is laughably easy as an Itani to get one's standing with Serco up (or vice versa), cook roids in Sol II (or w/e) and cackle crazily. Happy, happy, fun, fun.
Another thing: If this were introduced, it would have to be short-lived for when the economy does change, since it would reduce the possible amount of resources available from mining.
And zamzx, mere eloquence is not enought to vote for an idea. It's like saying Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within is a good movie because its CGI rocks (rocked...).
And I agree with Ecka: Countermeasures should be introduced. A heat sink ship perhaps?
Another thing: If this were introduced, it would have to be short-lived for when the economy does change, since it would reduce the possible amount of resources available from mining.
And zamzx, mere eloquence is not enought to vote for an idea. It's like saying Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within is a good movie because its CGI rocks (rocked...).
And I agree with Ecka: Countermeasures should be introduced. A heat sink ship perhaps?
Well, It was as 35 k when I started my observations , I accept it may have been hotter before then . The concept of my post still stands .
As regards TGFT , we tend to be positive in our contributions to VO as a game , and will put aside personal advantage in favour of gameplay whenever possible .
As regards TGFT , we tend to be positive in our contributions to VO as a game , and will put aside personal advantage in favour of gameplay whenever possible .
Lecter you are clearly illustrating how come Lawyers make successful politicians. Your love of purposely misconstruing an point, then arguing up the wrong side of the tree, is pure magic, worthy of at least a low level cabinet position.
Your idea still isn't going to happen until the universe is expandable (not necessarily infinately, but we need a lot more space). It would simply provide the tools for certain people to wipe out the very limited supply of resources that are available, even quicker than they could before. And considering these certain people tend to have an amazing amount of time on their hands, it would quickly make mining a mute point.
And then of course, you would make Yoda, very, very upset.
Your idea still isn't going to happen until the universe is expandable (not necessarily infinately, but we need a lot more space). It would simply provide the tools for certain people to wipe out the very limited supply of resources that are available, even quicker than they could before. And considering these certain people tend to have an amazing amount of time on their hands, it would quickly make mining a mute point.
And then of course, you would make Yoda, very, very upset.
Right now, it is laughably easy as an Itani to get one's standing with Serco up (or vice versa), cook roids in Sol II (or w/e) and cackle crazily. Happy, happy, fun, fun.
It's just as easy for a Serco, or UIT to cook 'roids in Serco territory. We're talking about borders, and space, and positions, not national loyalty. If the position of certain things becomes unique, it will become important, and therefor the location of that thing will become important, because if it's unique, it will be important to those who desire it. This is by the substitution property of equality; the only way you can argue against this is by being dubious with your English. The only way you can argue that resource denial isn't the single cause of borders and security in the first place is if you've never had something valuable stolen.
It's just as easy for a Serco, or UIT to cook 'roids in Serco territory. We're talking about borders, and space, and positions, not national loyalty. If the position of certain things becomes unique, it will become important, and therefor the location of that thing will become important, because if it's unique, it will be important to those who desire it. This is by the substitution property of equality; the only way you can argue against this is by being dubious with your English. The only way you can argue that resource denial isn't the single cause of borders and security in the first place is if you've never had something valuable stolen.
There are plenty of countermeasures to 'roids getting cooked by people you don't like. The neutron blaster is a personal favorite of mine. What sucks is the current friendly fire mechanics, and other rules/laws/anti-'griefing' mechanics in VO, and I think the devs are hard at work improving those already.
Yes they are.
In response to you Mynt, but obviously for everyone to consider, what if a player can commit various criminal acts? And then be labeled a criminal for a short period of time, being able to be killed by anyone without loss of level? Wouldn't that make it possible to kill roid cookers?
In response to you Mynt, but obviously for everyone to consider, what if a player can commit various criminal acts? And then be labeled a criminal for a short period of time, being able to be killed by anyone without loss of level? Wouldn't that make it possible to kill roid cookers?
I think this thread is slightly related: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15706?page=1