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Why does ship slow down when I let off the Boost?
Hi, just joined today. I love the game, but I find it annoying, especially with flight assistance turned off, that when I let off of or run out of energy for the boost, my ship slows down.
That doesn't make sense.
Seems like it'd be a simple fix too, since I imagine that slowing the ship back down was something that was purposely programmed into the engine. But why?
It's really takes away from the immersion for me. Reminds me that I'm in a GAME, and not out in space. :(
That doesn't make sense.
Seems like it'd be a simple fix too, since I imagine that slowing the ship back down was something that was purposely programmed into the engine. But why?
It's really takes away from the immersion for me. Reminds me that I'm in a GAME, and not out in space. :(
It's how the game works. There are multiple technobabble explanations for it, but that one is the simplest and most true.
The reasons, as I perceive them, are that if you have unlimited turbo for every ship, some become plain impossible to catch, which in turn can lead to a lot of frustration and exploitation.
Also, a 'realistic' starship simulator would be pretty boring to fly and fight in, as well as very difficult, because you would not only have to add inertial motion (which we do not have, basically), but also gravitational pull, and multi-body mechanics are not fun to calculate.
The reasons, as I perceive them, are that if you have unlimited turbo for every ship, some become plain impossible to catch, which in turn can lead to a lot of frustration and exploitation.
Also, a 'realistic' starship simulator would be pretty boring to fly and fight in, as well as very difficult, because you would not only have to add inertial motion (which we do not have, basically), but also gravitational pull, and multi-body mechanics are not fun to calculate.
This gets discussed every so often. The basic reason is that space combat with realistic physics is no fun. We're all used to seeing those cool space battles where the ships swoop and turn like jet fighters in atmospheric flight. Star Wars gave us that - and those battles were lifted directly from dogfights from WWII movies.
Yes it COULD be done quite easily, but battles would be horribly long and tedious. I've played VO with super-fast engines, and I've tried a game that featured totally-realist space combat. It was like strapping yourself into cheap office chair, in an ice rink, while throwing wadded up tissues at your opponents in a stiff breeze. In the real world we would compensate with all sorts of fancy aiming computers and fire-and-forget weapons. Victory would go to the pilot with the best gear. VO's twitch-based combat allows a pilot to devlop actual skills. A good pilot in a bad ship can mop the floor with a bad pilot in a better ship.
Yes it COULD be done quite easily, but battles would be horribly long and tedious. I've played VO with super-fast engines, and I've tried a game that featured totally-realist space combat. It was like strapping yourself into cheap office chair, in an ice rink, while throwing wadded up tissues at your opponents in a stiff breeze. In the real world we would compensate with all sorts of fancy aiming computers and fire-and-forget weapons. Victory would go to the pilot with the best gear. VO's twitch-based combat allows a pilot to devlop actual skills. A good pilot in a bad ship can mop the floor with a bad pilot in a better ship.
Forget combat, Whistler, think about slingshots and gravitational flight path deviation. People would go crashing into the suns with every other ship because the engines are too weak to get to escape velocity (if not done correctly). I remember a game that was 2D-only, where the only thing you could do was change orbits and such, and that was already so difficult to get right that it took up lots of time, even with unlimited fuel.
VO would become another job, which at the moment it is not, for me, instead it is a game, as it should be.
VO would become another job, which at the moment it is not, for me, instead it is a game, as it should be.
I agree, in part. I still think we could use a speed boost past 500mph. Keep in mind, that's boosted speed, actual combat speed is rather slower.
Compare that to a WW2 air combat sim, where the average combat speed is 400-500 in a chase, or 200-350 in a furball, coupled with a much more restrictive flight envelope, and you're seeing a WW2 sim feel faster paced than a space combat game.
Slowing things down is all fine and good for playability, but when I turn to Race Driver: GRiD for some fast-paced action, something is amiss.
Compare that to a WW2 air combat sim, where the average combat speed is 400-500 in a chase, or 200-350 in a furball, coupled with a much more restrictive flight envelope, and you're seeing a WW2 sim feel faster paced than a space combat game.
Slowing things down is all fine and good for playability, but when I turn to Race Driver: GRiD for some fast-paced action, something is amiss.
I think the unit for velocity in VO is m/s. 500 mph nicely coincide with 225 m/s, approximately. Was that intention?
That said, the question is, which ships get a speed boost, and to what extent. And what that means for other ships, when the gaps get wider.
That said, the question is, which ships get a speed boost, and to what extent. And what that means for other ships, when the gaps get wider.
They should just decrease the rate of deceleration when you release the boost. It would help to diminish that rubber band feeling. I'd say try cutting it in half and see how that feels. You can tweak it from there.
"I think the unit for velocity in VO is m/s. 500 mph nicely coincide with 225 m/s, approximately. Was that intention?"
Yep.
"That said, the question is, which ships get a speed boost, and to what extent. And what that means for other ships, when the gaps get wider."
The simple answer to deciding which ships get speed buffed is to answer yes. Increase top speed and acceleration across the board, therefore balancing shouldn't be an issue. Right now, non-boosted combat occurs at or around 50m/s, which happens at about the same speed as a Prius with a methed-out Britney behind the wheel. Balance-wise, this isn't much of an issue, since everyone is in essence a methed-out Britney with an efficient hybrid and a 1.5L engine to thrash about. Now, if everyone was a methed-out britney behind the wheel of something a bit racier, say, a C5R, then we'd see that increase in tempo and things would remain, in theory, equal.
But would that increase the blood-pumping factor of the game? I certainly think it would, but how much? I eluded to this in my previous post - VO has a very open flight envelope, which partially makes sense. We're in space and all. However, I think(and please correct me if I am wrong) that our craft are able to reach full thrust potential along any of the major axes, be that forward or back, port or starboard, or up and down. There is a well-documented loss of potential thrust in any off-axis(to prevent exploitation of diagonal thrust increase, we don't need space sailboats tacking under their own thrust), but what if we took that one step further? For example, make rear thrust 100%, port/starboard and up/down thrust 50%, and front-sector thrust 25%.
It's just an idea, but that might lead to a more restrictive flight envelope that would make sense in the setting. Perhaps it would put more importance on the merge? Or create a "circle of death", or helicopter maneuvers. Who knows? All I know is that in my experience, more restrictive flight envelopes make for faster-paced games, and that's saying nothing about top speed.
Yep.
"That said, the question is, which ships get a speed boost, and to what extent. And what that means for other ships, when the gaps get wider."
The simple answer to deciding which ships get speed buffed is to answer yes. Increase top speed and acceleration across the board, therefore balancing shouldn't be an issue. Right now, non-boosted combat occurs at or around 50m/s, which happens at about the same speed as a Prius with a methed-out Britney behind the wheel. Balance-wise, this isn't much of an issue, since everyone is in essence a methed-out Britney with an efficient hybrid and a 1.5L engine to thrash about. Now, if everyone was a methed-out britney behind the wheel of something a bit racier, say, a C5R, then we'd see that increase in tempo and things would remain, in theory, equal.
But would that increase the blood-pumping factor of the game? I certainly think it would, but how much? I eluded to this in my previous post - VO has a very open flight envelope, which partially makes sense. We're in space and all. However, I think(and please correct me if I am wrong) that our craft are able to reach full thrust potential along any of the major axes, be that forward or back, port or starboard, or up and down. There is a well-documented loss of potential thrust in any off-axis(to prevent exploitation of diagonal thrust increase, we don't need space sailboats tacking under their own thrust), but what if we took that one step further? For example, make rear thrust 100%, port/starboard and up/down thrust 50%, and front-sector thrust 25%.
It's just an idea, but that might lead to a more restrictive flight envelope that would make sense in the setting. Perhaps it would put more importance on the merge? Or create a "circle of death", or helicopter maneuvers. Who knows? All I know is that in my experience, more restrictive flight envelopes make for faster-paced games, and that's saying nothing about top speed.
I have actually played this game with both ships able to hit 500. Combat suffers greatly. Yes, WWII fighter battles occur at high speeds, but there are only a finite number of maneuvers that can (or should) be made during atmospheric flight battles. Space, even VO space, does not limit maneuvers in this way. As a result, combat would be made much more complex at high speeds because one would have to try to react to an infinite number of variables. At lower speeds we have a chance of reacting.
That sucks. Well, thanks for the insight, Whistler. I was just remembering the flight model from that B5 fan-made game, I've Found Her. That was some seriously high-octane fast moving combat, with relatively unbound flight envelope. It certainly wasn't for everyone, now that I think about it.
I still found it a helluva lotta fun.
I still found it a helluva lotta fun.
Even disregarding the pilot-ability issue, higher speeds would remove all of our non-US/non-broadband players, which would be lame.
Atmogon asked, "I imagine that slowing the ship back down was something that was purposely programmed into the engine. But why?"
roguelazer answered, "Even disregarding the pilot-ability issue, higher speeds would remove all of our non-US/non-broadband players, which would be lame."
Swing and a miss!
roguelazer answered, "Even disregarding the pilot-ability issue, higher speeds would remove all of our non-US/non-broadband players, which would be lame."
Swing and a miss!