Forums » Suggestions
I always use a Vult with dual gravs, F/C Batt and a heavy engine. It rules! but i do agree that the gravs need some upping. sunflares arnt that hard to dodge if u know there comming so i also agree that its not a problem with them.
Gravs are nice and should be nicer. Rails need to have their damage improved, but not so much as to allow CERTAIN PEOPLE to get a quad-rail hornet and get insta-kills.
Gauss = 180m/s
Tachyon = 200 m/s
Graviton = 220 m/s
Since tachyons are hypothetical subatomic particles that travel faster than the speed of light, I think that whatever the final stats are for energy weapons the one with the fastest m/s should get the tachyon name.
How fast did blue ions go in 3.1? 190m/s? Before going nuts, any speed changes on the energy weapons should be subtle.
At some point It would be interesting to test a weapon with very high speed and very rapid fire but very small damage so we could needle people to death. :)
Asp
Tachyon = 200 m/s
Graviton = 220 m/s
Since tachyons are hypothetical subatomic particles that travel faster than the speed of light, I think that whatever the final stats are for energy weapons the one with the fastest m/s should get the tachyon name.
How fast did blue ions go in 3.1? 190m/s? Before going nuts, any speed changes on the energy weapons should be subtle.
At some point It would be interesting to test a weapon with very high speed and very rapid fire but very small damage so we could needle people to death. :)
Asp
I think 20m/s is too big a gap between gravs and tachs.... what about
Gauss 180
Tach 200
Grav 210 or 205
Gauss 180
Tach 200
Grav 210 or 205
Gauss: 160m/s
Graviton: 180m/s, 100hp damage boost
Tachyon: 220m/s, 20% refire rate boost, 100hp damage REDUCTION
Graviton: 180m/s, 100hp damage boost
Tachyon: 220m/s, 20% refire rate boost, 100hp damage REDUCTION
Am I correct that bellow is how it used to be?
OLD:
Tach: dmg 600, .18 firing rate, speed 190
Grav: dmg 600, .9 firing rate, speed 170
or something like that. Tachs were better than gravs. Given that I think a 40m/s difference in speed will be more significant than double damage, but I could be wrong.
With that in mind Roguelazer what about:
Gauss 160
Grav 180, 100hp boost
Tach 200, 100hp reduction (and either a small energy reduction or fire rate boost)
OLD:
Tach: dmg 600, .18 firing rate, speed 190
Grav: dmg 600, .9 firing rate, speed 170
or something like that. Tachs were better than gravs. Given that I think a 40m/s difference in speed will be more significant than double damage, but I could be wrong.
With that in mind Roguelazer what about:
Gauss 160
Grav 180, 100hp boost
Tach 200, 100hp reduction (and either a small energy reduction or fire rate boost)
And in this case the grav gets a damage of 900 and the tachy a damage of 500. The tachy gets its speed very much increased and the fire-rate is increased, and the grav gets its speed the same.
rails, speed: same, damage: 1450 (no insta kill on busses), energy: 100 or so, autoaim: same.
Speed should be upped. Range is currently at 600m. This isn't very good, and I'd like to see range at 1km. However, range appears to be based on speed. so we'd need range to go up to ~165%.
roguelazer if they simply upped the range without changing the speed do you feel that you'd ever hit a target at that range? If they accelerate at all (speed up, slow down, or turn) you'll miss. If you want to hit a target at a longer range move towards the target as you fire. The game works with newtonian physics except with homers, so your shot will go farther.
Isn't that why I said that speed should be increased?
It's basically unrealistic to hit a target if your shot takes more than ~1.5 seconds to get there (for most energy weapons this is about 250m). Nonetheless I agree it would be nice to up the range of the rail gun to at least 1 km, more like 1.5 km, and give it a velocity of 600-700 m/s so you actually had a chance of hitting targets that far away. Make it a real sniper weapon worthy of the "I" key!
I hope that this discussion is just about how to balance weapons in the current test.
Weapons in an RPG need not necessarily be all that fair. They need to be somewhat reasonable as to damage and capability to keep the game fun, but most inequities between weapons can just be hammered out by making better ones rarer or more costly. I think the end goal should be to have lots of weapons (hundreds of different weapons and items would certainly be very very nice, if a lot of work) with large differences in quality and capability.
Weapon balance in, say a deathmatch, or CTF game is crucial, since the top weapons are relatively easy to obtain and there aren't that many weapons to choose from. The test is a CTF for now, but balancing the weapons is a lot of effort with not that much reward in the end.
So long as things stay somewhat reasonable, and access to the top weapons and items is eventually limited as we progress to the final game, things should be fine. I'd be asking for more varied weapons and ships, if I cared to pressure much in that area. (Why do all the ships have to look like airplanes? This is space! I want some more bizarre, cool designs! :-)
Anyway, the main point I have to make, is that it costs a lot of time and testing to perfectly balance even a limited set of weapons, and if this is to become an RPG, it's probably a good idea to not worry so much about it and get on to making *more* weapons. That is if that area is to be worked on at all at this point in time. Most of the balance will come from availability / non-availability, which simply can't be developed until the game is closer to being finished and the world is more developed.
More important at this point to getting a good RPG going I think would be the things which the developers actually are working on - the AI, event and scripting systems.
- Mesostel Ze
Weapons in an RPG need not necessarily be all that fair. They need to be somewhat reasonable as to damage and capability to keep the game fun, but most inequities between weapons can just be hammered out by making better ones rarer or more costly. I think the end goal should be to have lots of weapons (hundreds of different weapons and items would certainly be very very nice, if a lot of work) with large differences in quality and capability.
Weapon balance in, say a deathmatch, or CTF game is crucial, since the top weapons are relatively easy to obtain and there aren't that many weapons to choose from. The test is a CTF for now, but balancing the weapons is a lot of effort with not that much reward in the end.
So long as things stay somewhat reasonable, and access to the top weapons and items is eventually limited as we progress to the final game, things should be fine. I'd be asking for more varied weapons and ships, if I cared to pressure much in that area. (Why do all the ships have to look like airplanes? This is space! I want some more bizarre, cool designs! :-)
Anyway, the main point I have to make, is that it costs a lot of time and testing to perfectly balance even a limited set of weapons, and if this is to become an RPG, it's probably a good idea to not worry so much about it and get on to making *more* weapons. That is if that area is to be worked on at all at this point in time. Most of the balance will come from availability / non-availability, which simply can't be developed until the game is closer to being finished and the world is more developed.
More important at this point to getting a good RPG going I think would be the things which the developers actually are working on - the AI, event and scripting systems.
- Mesostel Ze
hmmmmmm /me really disagrees with you vx... I don't think that they should make overly powerful weapons for the players who play more. Yes it'll be an RPG and they've talked about extensive skills etc, but I don't think a laser of noob killing ease is a good idea... just my thought.
Vendetta is not a pure RPG. It's a space combat sim with RPG elements mixed into it. It will be more of a hybrid than a pure deathmatch or pure MMORPG game. We can't assume that the gameplay designs of previous MMORPGs or space combat sims will automatically be included in Vendetta, in other words. Some things will be different, while other things may be almost identical.
However, the devs have already stated that the combat portion will always remain in the game and will be directly controlled by the player. While there may or may not be rare items of great strength, they'll need to keep a lot of things balanced for the most part. At least if they have any intention of keeping the combat portion fun. All "common" weapons MUST be kept balanced, in other words.
If they do in fact have plans for hidden or hard-to-obtain super weapons, then I'd like to request that only one (or a VERY limited number) can be carried at any given moment. In other words an entire squadron can't just go into a hidden sector and arm their entire fleet up with this super weapon. Only the first person who docks into the station can get it, and they will lose it as cargo when they die (or it will be returned to the original station if it times out), allowing the person who killed him to be rewarded with the newly obtained power. I mean it should be that sort of thing, you know.
However, the devs have already stated that the combat portion will always remain in the game and will be directly controlled by the player. While there may or may not be rare items of great strength, they'll need to keep a lot of things balanced for the most part. At least if they have any intention of keeping the combat portion fun. All "common" weapons MUST be kept balanced, in other words.
If they do in fact have plans for hidden or hard-to-obtain super weapons, then I'd like to request that only one (or a VERY limited number) can be carried at any given moment. In other words an entire squadron can't just go into a hidden sector and arm their entire fleet up with this super weapon. Only the first person who docks into the station can get it, and they will lose it as cargo when they die (or it will be returned to the original station if it times out), allowing the person who killed him to be rewarded with the newly obtained power. I mean it should be that sort of thing, you know.
Well, once the game's population grows to the point where there will be scores of vets (sometime in the distant distant future) it will be important to have certain ships and weapons that we get through facing a great deal of trials. But not now.
I think the Rail should act like a bolt-action rifle... slow refire rate, high accurace, very high velocity, high range and a low damage to offset all that. Look at how the gauss/rail cannons in other games (like Mechwarrior 4) work, they seem to be balanced well. Never be shamed of being influenced by another product. Plus, if it comes to it, weapons can be trashed.
I was fighting with dual-rails yesterday... It took about twice as long to use as a tachyon blaster with not much more range... Not to mention that with the long refire/recharge delay, you are a sitting duck for rocket-rammers and non-moving-object-nukers.
The rails sound really crap and weak too :(