quote by maq: and what does being in europe have to do with preferred method of payment anyway?

I have no idea.

@toshiro:
maybe it's only subjective, but i feel, europeans does not like the way, privacy goes in the USA. (ok, in UK there's the same on the way: cams on every edge, every phone call gets spied, fingerprints in schools, biometric identification running everywhere and at least we should implant a chip (just, because it's "save" and is "proof of our trust in Governments")). but probalby everywhere on earth exists peoples more or less critical to what governments obstruct them.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say Bulgarian for taz.

Bulgary was in interrogations into EU last year (if i'm right)^^ yes, and it will be an EU-member next year. There are not many non-EU countries anymore:

Iceland, Norway, Monaco, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Vatican and most of the baltic nations BiH, Albania, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo and some little Iles of mostly financial strong city-states.

But there is a word of truth:

Not 1 (ONE) of the actual EU member countries 'citicens' were asked to chose by them self, if they want to be an EU member or not!! (think about that and keep it in mind for the next part) Their governments decided over their heads, they had to become EU-Members.

EU-law breaks national law/codes. (So, in between, 80% of all new laws in EU's Countries comes from the buerocrats out of Bruxelles (EU-HQ))

Before the EU, a lot of coutries citicens usually were able to choose and elect by them self (not only to elect trough Representatives as in USA), what to chose. But in this case, they were 'instructed' to be a member of the EU (Propaganda machineries were installed).

For the release of the EU-code only 2 (TWO) countries citizens were able to elect, and both did say: NO. (Netherland and France), so, this year, the code comes as simply as a 'Reform' and netherlands and french men will not be able to choose by themselve anymore.

So, do you wonder, why i told, in Europe people maybe think a litte bit else about 'Centralism'? (maybe too because of the two world wars in Europe) So, what happend with the good old Democracy?

Democracy's meaning is 'NOT' to become a real big super-state! but to involve as much as possible citicens choices. It's not anymore that, what happens right now! The EU is raised by Buerocrats!

And thats the reason why we fight for our rights and privacy back!

(Americans maybe can't understand that, because they ever lived in a representative 'Democracy' (sorry: pseudo-democracy)).

Hey, what's that leaking out my ear?

Ah. It's my brain. Taz broke it.

Damn.

hope you've got a first aid set in your living room Lecter^

I'll just call service and have them send a worker with a mop up to my office.

Wow. This is.. long.

I have no problem with accepting more forms of payment. The only real problem is the implementation time and overhead. Any surcharges will be passed along, like we do with PayByCash.

However, our main guy who works on the billing system (Andy) does not have a lot of free time right now, and I don't have a lot of extra development resources to spread around. So, in other words, it's fine by me, but it's not a priority, and probably won't appear in the immediate future. I know it could add more users, but I think making the game more fun is an even safer bet, as far as that goes.

We have had some talks with a couple of other payment-method providers, to augment our current setup, but haven't gotten to an implementation phase with any of them.

For the moment, we have Credit Cards (fast, convenient) and PayByCash (slow, will take everything short of livestock, not always convenient). Our credit card security is pretty good, I try to describe the reality of it, here:

http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/faq.billing.html#secure

Add onto that the fact that most major credit card companies offer some sort of feature allowing you to spawn "virtual" credit card numbers that are only useful for short periods of time. American Express made a splash with this a number of years ago, with their whole Smartcard thing. But even Citibank has a web applet thing that will spawn short-term numbers. If one is paranoid, one can do a one-shot charge on a "virtual" number that expires 24 hours later. The real-world security of that is probably about the same as this proposed phonecall thing.

If one is extra special paranoid, then only some sort of third-party direct payment will do, like a cashiers check or a money order. The least convenient, but certain to only be payable for a fixed amount.

quote tazman:
Not 1 (ONE) of the actual EU member countries 'citicens' were asked to chose by them self, if they want to be an EU member or no

I should prolly leave it but, taz, you do know that in all countries joining EU there was this small thing called a referendum in which everyone could choose if he wants his coutry to join or not, or has this somehow escaped you?

If one is extra special paranoid

Inc, I think--looking at the above--that it's safe to say taz is "extra special paranoid."

@incarnate:

You're admin? fine :-) Sorry for the long thread. Thanks a lot for your explanation. I personally would embrace such a payment, i would use it all the time (as i do now in other games)!

* The most pro argument is: "its very simple, quick and you have to give nothing than your phonenumber"

(so a super-paranoid still can use a not-listet phone#^^ if for some reason he bought one)

* While the second thing - the security - is less important, as long, as we would not have to give more personal info as really needed (look, its only a game, so why give adress?) to the vendor, and especially to third parties. And that would be the case with the call2pay. It's more something like a trustworthy assurance, that there is no way, to find our privacy-infos some days 'sold' to spamers, than that the possibility of hacking. There is no other game i play, where i have to give out my 'adress', don't understand, why you need it.

So, everything is told. I think this thread can be closed :-)

@Lector: hmpf. Let me guess, you would 'elect' George W. Bush again for the next 40 years and install Paul Wolfowitz again? Then do so, no one should threatening you for your own personal meaning.^^ so help looking, that this also stays this way for our next generation!

@maq: forget your 'referendum' if you don't understand, how 'slowly' it works. And guess how much time critics have became to initiate referendes: 2 Weeks? 3 Weeks? (some of them had to get 1.200.000 to 2.000.000 signs in time. impossible, while governments bureaucrats friends starts a giantic propaganda-machinery, that talks about everything that sound promisingly, but not about what the EU is really going like. -> a very big, useless and expensive BUREAUCRACY that tell you lies and lies again and so far...) And don't forget, how quick 'representatives' turn 180° after they are 'elected'. At first always towards bureaucracy. When that is installed save, they all got into dangerous, democracy-foe thoughts. In a Democracy where the citicens have the last word, you can look at how such 'representatives' fail.
If you prefere a 'democracy' where folks have the last word; then you're wrong with your 'representative'-Democracy. Go read about, what 'democracy' really means. Go read George Orwells 1984 as europeans do, and you would be surprised, how much of it already has gone reality. It does not necessarly have to become fulfilled!. So, no matter what you think, there are people, that has another idea of how the world is and how it should be^^

Wake up Americans, you probably just lost one of your last changes by missing to elect Ron Paul!

Tazzy, you worry about the fact the EU is about to fuck your sad little excuse for a country to the wall with a long totalitarian dong. We Americans will worry about both the ever increasing security culture in the Right wing of our government and the continually growing tax the productive and entitle the lazy culture in the Left.

Of the two of us, however, Americans have the easier problems. Have a nice life.

Lecter, what taz does not get is that the EU is pretty much the only way to go, for European countries (unless he wants to reinstate Soviet Russia). Non-acceptance of that fact only delays the inevitable and reduces the weight your country might pull in the EU parliament, as exemplarized by Switzerland.

What, there was some sort of problem with nations (i.e., UK, France, Italy, Spain, etc.)?

http://europa.eu/abc/maps/index_en.htm

Unless he is from Switzerland, Iceland, or Norway, he's pretty much the Russian sock puppet anyway.

taz i was talking specifically about joining, and the referendum was for everyone, it had nothing to do with signs or anything. More like usual election. Everyone could go and vote.

Plus, if a country already is as nondemocratic as you say before joining, then what the hell are you blaming eu for?

btw i am European, and in EU. And i don't feel democracy is any worse then before. (not that everything is perfect but that's different and unrelated topic)

Anyway, enough with this conversation (at least here)

Maq, some countries feel they are being invaded by the EU. Cos yeah, Well Europe is a big continent an no, news does not go everywhere.

To the OP: Incarnate is not Admin, he is Lead Developer. Vendetta has more pressing issue than *payment method* right now.

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