In creating military-based missions to enhance the serco-itani conflict, I could really use a system of military ranking that works similarly to the faction point system we have now.

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I'm with the UIT.

I don't like the idea of having the Serco know my Itani standing, and vice versa. I don't think building one should negatively impact the other, except for one situation: if I were in the Itani military, the Serco would easily notice this, and my Serco faction would tank.

Perhaps by creating a military faction, we can make the regular faction system in development more plausable. After all, each side keeps its own secrets; why can't a player's alignment be secret?

I suggest that only players of a given nation may rise to leadership positions within that nation's military. The rankings would be based upon continuing plot lines and Tour of Duty missions developed by the PCC.

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We could display the ranking as a thin, colorized extra bar at the bottom of the faction bar, like some games show shield strength over a health bar. The longer the bar, the higher your rank.

I suggest giving players military badges. All I've been able to do so far in my missions is to make little text badges like these:

(+)
-†-
*-*

But here is a good post for creating ideas for medals.

This sounds interesting. Like you said, a military faction system could add lots of depth to the game.

Nice idea silent and welcome back I must say.

I thought this was suggested sometime before?

But regardless, I whole-heartedly agree. Both on the count of separating military standing with a government from civilian standing, as well as the 'masking' military standing from those not of similar standing. It would, however, be prudent that a KOS military standing should always be visible, regardless of the viewing player's faction.

in general, i like the idea of more military-related rewards, rankings, and badges...

Yeesssh. I would like to see more military in Vendetta. Right now we're all civilians...I'd like to be able to join the military, and have regular dutys that you need to do...it'd be cool. Like, you have to do XXXX amount of BP in a week or something. And medals. Lot's of medals.

I like the idea of establishing more of a ranking system as well for the Military.
I know that many Sci-Fi games base their ranks off Naval ranks, so here's an idea from my time in service to the US Navy:

Admiral (ADM)
Vice Admiral (VADM)
Rear Admiral (RADM)
Captain (CPT)
Commander (CMDR)
Lieutenant/Leftenant (LT)
Lieutenant Junior Grade (LTjg)
Ensign (ENS)

Perhaps these ranks could be given similar to licenses, with a certain amount of combat experience specifically against the opposing enemy nation, and would reflect the capabilities of the pilot.

I agree that the ability to create "Medals" for the game would be great as well. Something like:
Serco Distinguished Flying Cross (2000 Enemy NPC Kills)
Serco Legion of Merit (Enemy HAC Kill)
Serco Silver Star (1000+ Enemy Casualties in Single BS/BB)
Serco Medal of Valor (X Number of BP Missions Successfully Completed)

With similar medals reflected for the Itani.

In the case of a UIT player that wanted to join one of the warring militaries, they could earn the medals their adopted military offers.
I agree though that there should be a lot of medals up for grabs. I know that I kind of unofficially created one for the SDF/Serco, but I'd love to see some in game. I also would love to see Guilds able to create one medal apiece to put in game that only they could award (similar to the Serco Defensive Cross listed in the original post).

Trouble with awarding ranks based on achieving a constant number of whatever, is that sooner or later just about everybody is Grande Admiral of the Supreme Allied Commanding... Advising Officers to the Holy Serco Dominion, or whatever.

I say that military faction points be used like currency, to buy N3's, and when we get there, Cappies. Thus, if you can kill enough dudes each time you take your TPG Frigate out, you never need fly fighters again. And if you suck, then you'll be back to Vultures, until you can perform enough duties to make your superiors think you're worthy again.

I don't know if I'd drop the Faction Standing for failure to be efficient in combat, as there will always be someone bigger, stronger, faster than you who can kill you.

What if there was a whole new faction set for that?
"Military Proficiency" rating or something similar that shows your overall combat capabilities and that could be used for access to certain upper-end combat equipment.
I'd say that there should always be the ability (when we get there) for personnel to command say, a TPG Trident Frigate, but a certain Faction Standing and Military Proficiency rating to get the Teradon, Constellation, or Heavy Assault Cruiser (along with any others).

On the other-hand, you could still use the ranking system, even though there'd eventually be a crapload of Admirals or whatever. This would be alright because the higher the person's rank, the better access to heavier and heavier ships, and the NPC's will still allow for a non-ranked, or low-ranked line force.
You could even establish ranks for NPC fighters, similar to how Starcraft ranked it's units:

Vulture: Ensign
Warthog: Ensign
Serco Prom: Lieutenant
Itani Valk: Lieutenant

Etc or even use more junior of ranks, say Warrant Officers (we'd have no enlisted personnel in flight roles, similar to a real military, so no Privates, Sergeants, etc.).

I don't know if I'd drop the Faction Standing for failure to be efficient in combat, as there will always be someone bigger, stronger, faster than you who can kill you.

That's precisely why you should only be rewarded for being better than average. Am I wrong in assuming that the "end-game" goal for PvP is to be the biggest fish?

Looks like we've got 100% agreement on this one! That happens rarely enough that it's worth mentioning.

I propose the following scenario:

Say, for example, you are an Itani with +900 standing and a combat level of 15. This means you can participate in top-secret military missions. (UIT or defecting Serco can only participate in standard military missions, but gain similar ranks with these missions.) As you complete each Tour of Duty (a complete set of missions), your military faction/rank improves. Medals are awarded for outstanding feats and a ribbon is awarded for each completed TOD. (One PCC member would create an entire TOD and be able to design the ribbon and maybe also some associated medals. We would just need a template provided by the devs.)

Each TOD contains missions for players of different ranks. This means that after completing TOD 1: "Silent Fire" as an ensign, the TOD 2: "Affirmation" will be available to you as an ensign. But if you are ever promoted to lieutenant, you can continue TOD 1 as a lieutenant. So, for instance, as an ensign, you would have TODs 1-10. After completing TOD 10 as ensign, you would be promoted to lieutenant. Then, you would continue any one of those TODs as a lieutenant. This allows for incremental and indefinite expansion of each TOD, hinting that even though you might pwn the enemy, the game continues.

At first glance, this doesn't seem infinite in scope. After how many TODs would you be promoted? That all depends upon how well you do. If you fail a mission 5 times (and you might only be given one chance, especially for top secret missions), don't expect to be promoted quickly; you might even get demoted for failing critical or sensitive missions. (Like if you are killed in a prototype vessel...) In this way, SuperMegaMynt, the highest rankings will really only go to those with spotless records. Considering how difficult this could be with the complexities of a 15th TOD mission, one would certainly be proud of an earned rank.

What would be really cool is if you could choose a military route, like specializing in cap ship war tactics or in small arms (light weapons) combat, and then be able to use advanced military technology based upon your specialty (and maybe an associated level, in the case of light weaponry). Furthermore, military guilds could have access to group specialties like formation tactics (ie. swarming the enemy) and be able to use military technology associated with that specialty (ie. Xtreme Chaingun Cannon). Perhaps they could eventually be able to design a weapon within the restraints of certain characteristics for their guildmates, those restraints based upon the specialization. For example, you get +5 speed modification points to use to upgrade a weapon (a lousy example, i know, but you get the idea). If it's a guild weapon and another mate gets +5 damage points, he can use it to further enhance that weapon. (Tada! Uber-weapons put into production by guilds, at the expense of mulah and resources.)

Some examples (where I mention modifiers, dev-made weapons is an alternative):

Ensign/Lieutenant/Officer

-Soldier
--Sniper
---access to range/speed modifiers on a new weapon
--Close combat
---access to damage/rate-of-fire modifiers on a new weapon
--Team tactics
---access to improved cap ship weapons

-Student
--Enemy Technology
---access to stolen enemy technology (ships and weapons) (this is where the prototype vessel comes in that I mentioned above)
--War History
---access to "primitive" or banned weaponry (similar to what we have IRL, including our currently very-powerful weapons)
--Leadership
---access to small military craft (that typically needs more than one person)

-Worker
--Biochemical Engineer
---specific biochemical weaponry / resources
--R&D Materials Specialist
---access to mining equipment prototypes
--Spy
---access to equipment that scrambles your ID / masks faction standing (useful only against the AI, because you can't hide your medals from other players :P)

Captain
(better versions of the above options, and the ability to fly military cap ships)

Your specialization would determine which TODs are available to you. You could also achieve medals for outstanding feats in your specialization... or not.

There's got to be more than nominal achievments. I suggested ships, Wave suggests missions, and those are both obvious.

I'd like to be able to join the military, and have regular dutys that you need to do...it'd be cool.

And this is something unique to the gaming world, insofar as I've been exposed to. Perhaps someone else has felt my sentiments that it killed a portion of Escape Velocity when you could never truly join a government's military. Why sure, you could become a mercenary for them, but it just wasn't the same. Nothing to keep you from one day hopping off to far corners of the galaxy, to demand tribute on God know's who's backwater moon, and several years later returning to Sol to pick up your work as you left it, as though you'd just gone to outfit your ship. "The next day you went to check out the Spaceport Bar, where Douglas promptly briefs you on your next mission." I can't quite place my finger on it, but something's slightly fakey about that whole scenario.

Off topic @ Mynt

Heh. It's a simple RPG. What you want is a full blown developed RPG, where things have consequences. What you want, is to have it so you have to disable long-range communications on the station first, so they can't call for help. Or to find some way of blackmailing them so command doesn't find out about it. You want a complex RPG, that is dynamic...

Yeah. Well, Vendetta won't have it unless someone buys them out. So until then, I'm settling for military faction :D

On topic; This is something I approve of highly. It makes sense and truly would add a load to this game. This game really works well for squad fighting, and at least one or two missions that group you up with a couple of dudes to go fight something, would be amazing. Please.

Military mission chain is a must in vendetta, at least for the serco.

I agree , a more structured military side to VO would add to the game . The Starting point is already there , the "join the military" mission which gives access to BS .

I think the stats that appear in the table at the end of BS are recorded ( or can be recorded ) so things are moving in that direction.

Ecka

RPG stands for Roleplaying game. Anything that counts in that favor, I consider a plus.

As an alternative to officially joining a nation's military, one could sign an oath of secrecy and become a spy or mercenary. This is similar to the bounty hunter status that one of my characters has. (This affects your regular faction, not your military faction.)

As a spy, you would remain in favor with both opposing nations or corporations, but if you fail a dangerous mission, you could end up in "jail" (you'd lose a hefty chunk of money for bail, and both factions would disown you).

This would be a nice route for UIT traders who want to get into the combat scene. Pirates could sign up as mercenaries rather than spies, providing these players with more role-playing choices than just looting ships around gray space. For instance, if someone has a tanked Itani standing and a high combat rating (like pirates often do), they can sign up for mercenary work to rebuild their Itani faction points faster than just botting would do.

Of course, spy missions would prevent the enemy from knowing you, so your standing with them wouldn't tank. Mercenary missions (similar to BS and BP), on the other hand, would pit you in combat with the enemy, so your faction with the enemy would tank.

There are two options with the Spy missions: if a player's Serco standing is tanked, they either can or cannot become Serco spies. For example, if Itani players are allowed to become spies for the Serco, they can betray their own nation without their nation being any the wiser. However, if having a tanked faction only allows you to accept mercenary missions from those enemy systems, then your betrayal would be known by all of your current allies, because you would be openly fighting your friends.

Why sure, you could become a mercenary for them, but it just wasn't the same.

Bingo. A lot of these things suggested are just mercs. And the two types of faction? Well, here's my two cents.

Join the military. This does nothing to your standing, because as we know, they don't just say who's in their military. Military standing only tanks if you attack opposing forces and a) let them escape, b) take too long so they can send a message back to their base. Until that happens, standing is normal.

The higher rank you get, the more ships available to you. However only ships up to a certain range are buy-able. In other words, the ships are military property, not yours. How many captains of capital ships own them? None. They simply use them. Plus, I dunno about the factions, but I'd be scared by the idea of someone buying a capital ship. A lose cannon.

As for a Military Faction, I think that's not nessecarily a good thing. If you shoot a Serco down they're gonna hate you just as much when you're neutral as when you're Itani. But, something like a fake ID might do a similar thing. Just an idea.

We're talking about military ranking, but to avoid the limitations created by simple badges and medals, we should use a point system. You can earn and lose points, but once you get a medal, you're not going to lose it, even after being thrown into jail.

Succeeding in missions not only provides the potential for outstanding achievement medals, but it also raises your military ranking, little by little. We should just award/revoke points. For example, if you got 100/100 points as ensign, you would be promoted. At your next level, you would need 80/80 points, because the missions would get harder. As you are promoted, each mission lasts longer and is more demanding of your skills in your specialized field. Thus, there are fewer and fewer missions as you progress, especially when you're doing top-secret missions of extreme impact on the enemy. Each TOD would have a 'final' mission.

I'll explain this with an example. TOD "Hidden Dragon" has 10 missions. You start as an Ensign, and you need 100 points for a promotion to Lieutenant. After winning each mission, you are promoted 5 military faction points. (Since this is not a top secret TOD, you can indefinitely retake missions after losing them, but once you win them, you can't do them again as the same alt.) Let's say you now have 50 points after completing "Hidden Dragon". Notice that you're still an ensign. You continue onward to TOD "Repercussions" and complete another 8 missions, for a total of 90 points. You're still an ensign. Now you finish 2 of 10 missions of TOD "black hole", which promotes you to Lieutenant. You can now go back to any previous TOD and play as a lieutenant, according to your specialization. (You'll have to finish "black hole" as ensign before you can play as lieutenant, but you can choose your role when starting new TODs.)

Also, once you join the military, you are no longer a civilian. Thus, your civilian status would not change as you complete missions. I understand where you're coming from with this point, Phish:

"If you shoot a Serco down they're gonna hate you just as much when you're neutral as when you're Itani. But, something like a fake ID might do a similar thing. Just an idea."

This is a great solution, except when it comes to the idea of promotion via a new point system. As you know, the top secret missions would obscure your identity, unless you fail one where your identity is at risk of exposure. That's similar to a fake ID in that your faction appears normal to the enemy transponders. But you should realize that you need a neutral faction standing with the enemy already; fake IDs don't work in this age of advanced technology, and it would prove too risky for the military to depend upon. (Don't underestimate the enemy.) You need to appear neutral to the enemy in order to spy on them (and higher ranks are preferred over simply neutral status). Also, top secret missions (ie. spy missions) are subversive and do not adversely affect your enemy faction under normal situations. So, for instance, you can shoot a targeted Serco ship without your Serco standing going down; the blame would go to the Itani at large or some mercenary espionage, but not to you. If you did the same thing without the undercover status provided by the military, your Serco faction would be ruined. I think the easiest way to implement this is to create a top-level faction that is activated with the military mission tags. This seems the easiest way to avoid accidentally adversely affecting your normal faction. (haha, 4 a-words in a row!)

Just a quick post to say.. sounds cool, keep the ideas coming. I actually have a significant amount of design notes on military rankings (actually on the Trac!) and how it could play out in large-scale strategic combat gameplay. Very interested in how you guys approach it.

I'll get back to exposing all the stuff I have (on the Trac wiki), once I wrap up these various server upgrades.

Incarnate, where is the Trac? The link to the dev wiki is dead.