Forums » Suggestions
Discussion about 'New Content"
This is a discussion about content that everyone wants added, but won't say what they would like for fear of offending the developers. I, for one, hope the reputation of the devs as "friendly" follows this as trying to be constructive, not harsh. But my input is based on the simple premise of " keep it simple" and they will come and stay. And I want "Vendetta Online" to become extremely popular.
What we really need is more to do and different things that keep us occupied. And in doing this, we will stay happy. But some posts I've seen, they are interested more in things that go 'boom', than stuff to do. So let's look at some new things that don't require a 'poop load' of programming inside the server or client.
"Need to cover areas inside the sector quickly" - How about the nav map. It already works, people are used to it, and it needs only to be made large enough to show an accurate sector map. Then let the players figure out where to jump to. This is already available to go from sector to sector, why not use it to go in-sector too? And to make the pirates happy, a "follow" button that (adjusted by twitch or skill) lets them follow.
"Need more to do in sector" How about enormous gas clouds that can be mined at half speed and have no temp increase. Whether to add collision, to slow objects, is based on how much work the Devs want to do - but if collision is added, it would have to effect all objects, not just ships.
"Easier Jumps" Reduce the clear area requirement to 2000 meters. You are adding more clouds and stuff to do. Spread out the asteroids and ice crystals. No one should mind traveling around a bit.
"Faction Standing" You should not be able to just do some good and then walk away and keep your standing up. And only if I attack the UIT should they start hating me. - Keep the Faction Standing increasing like now, just add a bit of code that will reduce your standing 1 or so points for every four (4) hours of game play. This would happen to all of your standings because you should work to keep them up. And in 4 hours you could recover that decrease and then some.
And the Dreaded "Need more content" How about Research, Fabrication (which includes recycling). The devs would only need to add code to the server and some to the client, but the data base and pictures would be the brunt of the work.
"Increase the story line." Add spy missions on the Hive. Have events from the 'Hive' report in the "News". Change the hive collectors and guards to be more specific and capable. If "hive craft -x" is the weakest, make it a bit faster (top speed) and not as maneuverable, and then assign it to the most plentiful of resources in these systems. Change the next to mine the next most important and then the strongest go after the most rare. The drops become more in line with the type of craft and resource they harvest. And experience, based on the type of craft, goes directly to your stats without a limitations.
Make EVERYTHING destroy-able. Including Space stations. Why? Because if you have to defend your station, you are more apt to feel a part of this world. And in no way should 10-20 people in single person vessels, be able to destroy a station under any circumstances. True, some will not help defend a station, but the stations should have an AI that defends itself and its occupants.
And in keeping that philosophy, the max number of "Capital Ships" should not more than 5 per faction. A smaller ship called "Ship of the Line" should be introduced to fill the gap between the single man craft, and a required multi-manned craft. They can be run by a single player or by up to ??. But "Capital Ships" should always have a minimum manpower to operate.
How much you can store in-station needs to be a function of the station (and maybe your faction standing), not just an arbitrary amount. And we need to have the stations acknowledge our efforts in helping it, so Station Standing would be good. (-100 to 0 to +100).
Redefine a CU to be about the size of your fist. That fits with the "data-cube" being 1 CU. It would also give the players an idea of just how much they need to buy to afford that Guild Hall, Capital Ship, or what-ever. Then resize everything to match the new size. This would also increase your cargo holds on ships but you can limit the amounts of items they can load to a finer degree. This is primarily a data base change, not programming.
Add two (2) more Hive ships. Hunter and Seeker. They are activated when a player has a data-cube and gets scanned by a hive unit. The two Hunters and one Seeker would then be after that player. Have an event happen when the Hive reaches a certain number of these. Code, Pictures, and Database required.
A clear and conscience idea of where you want the game to progress. Program in safe guards and then have certain players act as 'emergency plans' to bail you out if the plans go awry. Reward your players for being here longer with extra in-station space, more ship storage, and etc.
More to do will get players. Well defined story (news display) will keep them.
These are just ideas to represent the intent of the conversation.
If you have better ideas for EASY content, lets hear them.
What we really need is more to do and different things that keep us occupied. And in doing this, we will stay happy. But some posts I've seen, they are interested more in things that go 'boom', than stuff to do. So let's look at some new things that don't require a 'poop load' of programming inside the server or client.
"Need to cover areas inside the sector quickly" - How about the nav map. It already works, people are used to it, and it needs only to be made large enough to show an accurate sector map. Then let the players figure out where to jump to. This is already available to go from sector to sector, why not use it to go in-sector too? And to make the pirates happy, a "follow" button that (adjusted by twitch or skill) lets them follow.
"Need more to do in sector" How about enormous gas clouds that can be mined at half speed and have no temp increase. Whether to add collision, to slow objects, is based on how much work the Devs want to do - but if collision is added, it would have to effect all objects, not just ships.
"Easier Jumps" Reduce the clear area requirement to 2000 meters. You are adding more clouds and stuff to do. Spread out the asteroids and ice crystals. No one should mind traveling around a bit.
"Faction Standing" You should not be able to just do some good and then walk away and keep your standing up. And only if I attack the UIT should they start hating me. - Keep the Faction Standing increasing like now, just add a bit of code that will reduce your standing 1 or so points for every four (4) hours of game play. This would happen to all of your standings because you should work to keep them up. And in 4 hours you could recover that decrease and then some.
And the Dreaded "Need more content" How about Research, Fabrication (which includes recycling). The devs would only need to add code to the server and some to the client, but the data base and pictures would be the brunt of the work.
"Increase the story line." Add spy missions on the Hive. Have events from the 'Hive' report in the "News". Change the hive collectors and guards to be more specific and capable. If "hive craft -x" is the weakest, make it a bit faster (top speed) and not as maneuverable, and then assign it to the most plentiful of resources in these systems. Change the next to mine the next most important and then the strongest go after the most rare. The drops become more in line with the type of craft and resource they harvest. And experience, based on the type of craft, goes directly to your stats without a limitations.
Make EVERYTHING destroy-able. Including Space stations. Why? Because if you have to defend your station, you are more apt to feel a part of this world. And in no way should 10-20 people in single person vessels, be able to destroy a station under any circumstances. True, some will not help defend a station, but the stations should have an AI that defends itself and its occupants.
And in keeping that philosophy, the max number of "Capital Ships" should not more than 5 per faction. A smaller ship called "Ship of the Line" should be introduced to fill the gap between the single man craft, and a required multi-manned craft. They can be run by a single player or by up to ??. But "Capital Ships" should always have a minimum manpower to operate.
How much you can store in-station needs to be a function of the station (and maybe your faction standing), not just an arbitrary amount. And we need to have the stations acknowledge our efforts in helping it, so Station Standing would be good. (-100 to 0 to +100).
Redefine a CU to be about the size of your fist. That fits with the "data-cube" being 1 CU. It would also give the players an idea of just how much they need to buy to afford that Guild Hall, Capital Ship, or what-ever. Then resize everything to match the new size. This would also increase your cargo holds on ships but you can limit the amounts of items they can load to a finer degree. This is primarily a data base change, not programming.
Add two (2) more Hive ships. Hunter and Seeker. They are activated when a player has a data-cube and gets scanned by a hive unit. The two Hunters and one Seeker would then be after that player. Have an event happen when the Hive reaches a certain number of these. Code, Pictures, and Database required.
A clear and conscience idea of where you want the game to progress. Program in safe guards and then have certain players act as 'emergency plans' to bail you out if the plans go awry. Reward your players for being here longer with extra in-station space, more ship storage, and etc.
More to do will get players. Well defined story (news display) will keep them.
These are just ideas to represent the intent of the conversation.
If you have better ideas for EASY content, lets hear them.
Wasn't there a thread about "quick fix" changes about 6 months back?
Yeah I read it. Way to much change of programming. And it was supposed to be implemented?
Ugh to shitty format.
Is this a joke?
Should I not be laughing?
Should I not be laughing?
Thanks for the constructive criticism, genka. It's nice to see you contributing civilly to a thread for once. *adjusts glasses* Oh... nvm.
There is good stuff in there, but the devs do have a lot of these kinds of things layed out for implement already. They just want to make sure they have all the core elements like the kourier right where they want them before they start adding mass content. But it's always nice to hear new input, at least in my opinion.
EDIT Another thing is that these kinds of changes require a larger player count to be utilized, and the devs, as I understand it, do not wish to drastically increase the number until they have finished coding and implementing all the ideas they originally imagined as part of the game.
There is good stuff in there, but the devs do have a lot of these kinds of things layed out for implement already. They just want to make sure they have all the core elements like the kourier right where they want them before they start adding mass content. But it's always nice to hear new input, at least in my opinion.
EDIT Another thing is that these kinds of changes require a larger player count to be utilized, and the devs, as I understand it, do not wish to drastically increase the number until they have finished coding and implementing all the ideas they originally imagined as part of the game.
"But some posts I've seen, they are interested more in things that go 'boom', than stuff to do."
I think perhaps you need to read more of their posts, since you have seriously mischaracterized what they are interested in and appear to be unaware that many of the things you mention are in the works already.
Start here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
I think perhaps you need to read more of their posts, since you have seriously mischaracterized what they are interested in and appear to be unaware that many of the things you mention are in the works already.
Start here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html
"Make EVERYTHING destroy-able. Including Space stations. Why? Because if you have to defend your station, you are more apt to feel a part of this world. And in no way should 10-20 people in single person vessels, be able to destroy a station under any circumstances. True, some will not help defend a station, but the stations should have an AI that defends itself and its occupants.
And in keeping that philosophy, the max number of "Capital Ships" should not more than 5 per faction. A smaller ship called "Ship of the Line" should be introduced to fill the gap between the single man craft, and a required multi-manned craft. They can be run by a single player or by up to ??. But "Capital Ships" should always have a minimum manpower to operate.
And all of this, in your view, follows the premise of "keep it simple" and doesn't require a 'poop load' of programming?
And in keeping that philosophy, the max number of "Capital Ships" should not more than 5 per faction. A smaller ship called "Ship of the Line" should be introduced to fill the gap between the single man craft, and a required multi-manned craft. They can be run by a single player or by up to ??. But "Capital Ships" should always have a minimum manpower to operate.
And all of this, in your view, follows the premise of "keep it simple" and doesn't require a 'poop load' of programming?
The whole.. problem, that we've been having with adding content, are the various "poop load" of bugs and issues that come up in the process. Things like, say, introducing more missions (but missions get started in storm sectors sometimes, or just don't work at all for other reasons) or making better use of capships (which may suddenly "get bored" and warp to nowhere, spontaneously explode because of bizarre collision issues, or just not have an effective means of telling them where to go). We've fixed a hell of a lot of this stuff over the past year, all with the purpose of using the content that we *already* have (like, say, capships) to more useful effect. We take a lot of guff over not using things more broadly already.. but only because people are unaware of existing bugs.. since we aren't exposing those flaws by using that stuff (or using it in that way, etc). Everything looks great and simple until you actually try doing it, and then you (eventually) find a vast chain of dependent fixes and code changes, some of which are updates to systems that are totally bad and should be rewritten anyway. Trying to intelligently make these judgments and figure out what will get us the most "new" for our development hour.. while still creating a codebase that doesn't become an unmaintainable mess.. this is what software development is all about.
Anyway, I'm all for hearing ideas about "quick fixes" and things, input is always good. Just don't necessarily assume that because it *seems* simple, that it must *be* simple. Hell, I'm a developer, I understand our stuff fairly well, and my few "simple missions" still required about 3 weeks of extra development to make things actually work properly. It was all good, globally worthwhile development that made the PCC a much more viable system, but the number of dependent bugs and problems was not anticipated until implementation was attempted.
One of my 700 @#$@ing projects is making the design wiki public, as well, which would answer a lot of these kinds of questions (which I say, every single time this comes up, but still haven't made available). Some "stuff" is going really well, like the Kourier system, so we're looking a more "big" gameplay in the near future (redux of Border Skirmish, possible replacement of CtC, stuff like that). Other things are waiting until Ray finishes his database migration. Etc, etc. Anyway, that's fairly well covered in the last few newsposts.
Anyway, I'm all for hearing ideas about "quick fixes" and things, input is always good. Just don't necessarily assume that because it *seems* simple, that it must *be* simple. Hell, I'm a developer, I understand our stuff fairly well, and my few "simple missions" still required about 3 weeks of extra development to make things actually work properly. It was all good, globally worthwhile development that made the PCC a much more viable system, but the number of dependent bugs and problems was not anticipated until implementation was attempted.
One of my 700 @#$@ing projects is making the design wiki public, as well, which would answer a lot of these kinds of questions (which I say, every single time this comes up, but still haven't made available). Some "stuff" is going really well, like the Kourier system, so we're looking a more "big" gameplay in the near future (redux of Border Skirmish, possible replacement of CtC, stuff like that). Other things are waiting until Ray finishes his database migration. Etc, etc. Anyway, that's fairly well covered in the last few newsposts.
if you make money actually worth something then i think it would help a lot with the game. In most games you have to work hard to earn the higher level stuff but in this game many things are attainable and have low prices. The missions on the other hand give out a lot of money so it makes it too easy to get things.
Make one thing that is somewhat expensive, useful, and that people want and will pay more for and it would make money worth something, make missions important, mining more important, and inturn cause a domino effect for pirating and player events and etc.
Make one thing that is somewhat expensive, useful, and that people want and will pay more for and it would make money worth something, make missions important, mining more important, and inturn cause a domino effect for pirating and player events and etc.
Yeah I agree with Yuutuu and say: roll on the New Economy / redux, with money that actually has value, with limited resources, with prices determined by supply and demand. As to the O.P. - whatevah.
There is a problem: Those who own a lot right now.
You would have to effectively rob them of their more or less hard-earned cash, and how this could be pulled off without a general cry for pitchforks, I do not know.
And if you do not equalize it at the beginning, all you do is put the new players at a disadvantage so disproportionate that I have no intention of calculating the factor.
You would have to effectively rob them of their more or less hard-earned cash, and how this could be pulled off without a general cry for pitchforks, I do not know.
And if you do not equalize it at the beginning, all you do is put the new players at a disadvantage so disproportionate that I have no intention of calculating the factor.
The economy redux requires that other, seemingly peripheral, things are working properly. The bot AI must work correctly, for instance.
About the money, there are fairly many ways of doing it.
First, make stuff expensive or money harder to come by, then make something awesomely expensive that everyone will want, for example The Capships.
You either BUY one, for billions and billions of credits, draining cash from the insanely wealthy players, or do a series of construction missions, so it's also available for new players, but way too tedious if you have the cash to just buy it.
There could even be a combination of the two?
The bought ones would be available pretty much right away as they're standing by in hyperspace, or whatever, but the constructed ones would take more time, since they're actually being built. The semi-constructed "combination of the two" would take somewhere in between in time?
They'd need to have the same stats, but maybe the built ones could be a little more customized, like the inability to select the color for the bought ones, or whatever.
All this has the rather nasty prerequisite of the capships being useful, but that IS coming. This is just a money sink example :)
First, make stuff expensive or money harder to come by, then make something awesomely expensive that everyone will want, for example The Capships.
You either BUY one, for billions and billions of credits, draining cash from the insanely wealthy players, or do a series of construction missions, so it's also available for new players, but way too tedious if you have the cash to just buy it.
There could even be a combination of the two?
The bought ones would be available pretty much right away as they're standing by in hyperspace, or whatever, but the constructed ones would take more time, since they're actually being built. The semi-constructed "combination of the two" would take somewhere in between in time?
They'd need to have the same stats, but maybe the built ones could be a little more customized, like the inability to select the color for the bought ones, or whatever.
All this has the rather nasty prerequisite of the capships being useful, but that IS coming. This is just a money sink example :)
Making drop rates higher aren't always that great of a system because what we had before with Law Guns was a competing market.
Before the drop rate was lowered substantially people were trading Law Guns like mad. They were somewhat expensive compared to other weaponry but it created a job and inturn content for players. There was an option to be an arms dealer and people were making decent profits.
Then of course the drop rate was lowered which has killed off most of the market for it. If the drop rate was doubled for laws or at least increased 1.5 then this market and job might become viable again.
Stuff like that is what this game needs.
Before the drop rate was lowered substantially people were trading Law Guns like mad. They were somewhat expensive compared to other weaponry but it created a job and inturn content for players. There was an option to be an arms dealer and people were making decent profits.
Then of course the drop rate was lowered which has killed off most of the market for it. If the drop rate was doubled for laws or at least increased 1.5 then this market and job might become viable again.
Stuff like that is what this game needs.
I honestly don't understand the obsession with making money "worth more." Anyone care to explain, or should I just go back to assuming that this is one of those things all the newbs like because it's "OMG JUST LEIK REEL LEIF"?
Cap ships aren't content. Missions are only the shell of content. What needs to be established in Vendetta is a way for one side or the other to achieve a sense of victory. CtC is the most basic form of that. The goal of conquerable territory is something that would fit that role in the long term.
Missions operate independently of each other. Both Serco and Itani can complete BP missions at the same time. Because of the nature of the quick kill and return fighting in this game, a way to temporarily "win" needs to be installed. Shaded touches on this in an alternate post. IMHO, this should be priority one. It can also be accomplished abstractly through economy. But whatever hole the devs are trying to fix, this needs to be the goal they have in mind. It is the most painfully lacking part of Vendetta and it always has been. Nobody ever really feels like they've won a battle with the exception of CtC.
Missions operate independently of each other. Both Serco and Itani can complete BP missions at the same time. Because of the nature of the quick kill and return fighting in this game, a way to temporarily "win" needs to be installed. Shaded touches on this in an alternate post. IMHO, this should be priority one. It can also be accomplished abstractly through economy. But whatever hole the devs are trying to fix, this needs to be the goal they have in mind. It is the most painfully lacking part of Vendetta and it always has been. Nobody ever really feels like they've won a battle with the exception of CtC.
Ghost: yes. Capships without a point are mostly window dressing, which I try to point out every so often. We've been working on the.. making-bigger-gameplay-possible thing for this entire year, and yes, it's a short term goal. Border Skirmish was a first generation test that showed us a *lot* of problems, most of which have been ironed out. The second generation test should be a lot more.. interesting. Eventually we hope to have such things just be an inline aspect of gameplay that's just taken as a part of the whole.
i love the atmosphere about handling gear. it does not matter if you die so eveyone loves to battle eachother because gear is cheap.
this by any means has to stay like it is.
so if a new economy should not affect that behaviour we kinda need two currencies one for gear and one for other stuff to have something of value... no sense it that i guess.
also it would look strange if ships would be for free like the ec...
on the other hand a cent sl is a loaaaad of time and effort...
the materials kinda not worth anything but the time it needs is enourmous. such effort would fit for a capship but not small fighter imho.
in the game context.
say we have a real economy and our traders clever as they are make good money, so we can afford npc convoy to buy the stuff needed for such capships and bring them to whereever we want... silly those not protecting their voys...
automatically generates a mission to be taken by newbies and everybody like any other convoy as well generates these...
this i think would be a somewhat well thought of solution...
combined with crafting to not being forced to buy "panels","whatever units" ... it would really start making fun i guess
rented convoys wear guild colors and pay the same (this should be a bit more calculateable... can't be a 2 wh voy gives me 1.5 million and a 12 wh voy 37k) as npc convoys which are triggered by tradennpcs/coorporations ...
the generation of capships should also take place in space docks which on the other hand hire craftsmen either npcs or players...
(this might be tricky to make imagineing some walking around and ataching stuff to a hull ... maybe later somewhen though)
a note on realism stations should be redesigned as well i mean where the hell does this tiny thing stock all these moth heavy which docked a few seconds ago? something most wired regarding the oter aspects of the game like mass influences movement...
but size does not influence storage or what?
and then, i see food in every station, where does it come from?
there does not seem to be light in statons to make thins grow they look more like business complexes... but no space farms...
same for water... our iceroids are magic heated up to 1000 kelvin it still stays ice...
what about mining is not the only source of resources? harvsters for farming (farms: giant indoor domes in sectors close to system suns... connected to a tradestation the ideal place for newbies to spawn to introduce them to trade also because food is needed everywhere...) same for other collecting activities like lly melting iceroids and get the water to where it is needed...
would include a spawning system which rate is related to the the universe amount of citizens npc's and players...
i don't know if our avatars should be forced to eat...
but loggin off (and you just can log off at a station) has a price for hospitality services... depending on the faction of course... which is as well a way to much up and down actually it is way to easy to get admired pos everywhere.well not bad for actuall gameplay bt a mmo i would say should have some more depth also why dos killing bots not always affect standing? why do not all factions have their own worries some have bots getting on their nerves and honor killing them others are just intreested in research and crafting... and the major factions send you wide out into space to claim new terretory and fight other nations...
every other game evolves some kind of story or journey...
out of the newbiezone into the the leveling areas higher level areas with first real conflict late endgame areas with a constant ongoing war effort... vo also lacks this a bit... and that is not only story this mans there should be a real evolving universe also adapting to amount of players.
a universe where a newsystem that just spawned hs some strange sectors so a mission is given out to build a researchstation to investigate a huge several sectos long wreckage field of unknown origin... ship dsigns of alien races... new borders with other races and factions turn up... well a bit wide away already from vo but this is where scifi gets intresting...
well i also think about a game with about a million subscribers...
i also kinda miss a 4th way of transportation... let our actuall known universe be one f a few human controlled - galaxies and then have stargates for inter galaxy transport... some a complete warzone... others areas for other races.... ah well just my imagination hopefully the stuff written a bit more up makes sense though.
this by any means has to stay like it is.
so if a new economy should not affect that behaviour we kinda need two currencies one for gear and one for other stuff to have something of value... no sense it that i guess.
also it would look strange if ships would be for free like the ec...
on the other hand a cent sl is a loaaaad of time and effort...
the materials kinda not worth anything but the time it needs is enourmous. such effort would fit for a capship but not small fighter imho.
in the game context.
say we have a real economy and our traders clever as they are make good money, so we can afford npc convoy to buy the stuff needed for such capships and bring them to whereever we want... silly those not protecting their voys...
automatically generates a mission to be taken by newbies and everybody like any other convoy as well generates these...
this i think would be a somewhat well thought of solution...
combined with crafting to not being forced to buy "panels","whatever units" ... it would really start making fun i guess
rented convoys wear guild colors and pay the same (this should be a bit more calculateable... can't be a 2 wh voy gives me 1.5 million and a 12 wh voy 37k) as npc convoys which are triggered by tradennpcs/coorporations ...
the generation of capships should also take place in space docks which on the other hand hire craftsmen either npcs or players...
(this might be tricky to make imagineing some walking around and ataching stuff to a hull ... maybe later somewhen though)
a note on realism stations should be redesigned as well i mean where the hell does this tiny thing stock all these moth heavy which docked a few seconds ago? something most wired regarding the oter aspects of the game like mass influences movement...
but size does not influence storage or what?
and then, i see food in every station, where does it come from?
there does not seem to be light in statons to make thins grow they look more like business complexes... but no space farms...
same for water... our iceroids are magic heated up to 1000 kelvin it still stays ice...
what about mining is not the only source of resources? harvsters for farming (farms: giant indoor domes in sectors close to system suns... connected to a tradestation the ideal place for newbies to spawn to introduce them to trade also because food is needed everywhere...) same for other collecting activities like lly melting iceroids and get the water to where it is needed...
would include a spawning system which rate is related to the the universe amount of citizens npc's and players...
i don't know if our avatars should be forced to eat...
but loggin off (and you just can log off at a station) has a price for hospitality services... depending on the faction of course... which is as well a way to much up and down actually it is way to easy to get admired pos everywhere.well not bad for actuall gameplay bt a mmo i would say should have some more depth also why dos killing bots not always affect standing? why do not all factions have their own worries some have bots getting on their nerves and honor killing them others are just intreested in research and crafting... and the major factions send you wide out into space to claim new terretory and fight other nations...
every other game evolves some kind of story or journey...
out of the newbiezone into the the leveling areas higher level areas with first real conflict late endgame areas with a constant ongoing war effort... vo also lacks this a bit... and that is not only story this mans there should be a real evolving universe also adapting to amount of players.
a universe where a newsystem that just spawned hs some strange sectors so a mission is given out to build a researchstation to investigate a huge several sectos long wreckage field of unknown origin... ship dsigns of alien races... new borders with other races and factions turn up... well a bit wide away already from vo but this is where scifi gets intresting...
well i also think about a game with about a million subscribers...
i also kinda miss a 4th way of transportation... let our actuall known universe be one f a few human controlled - galaxies and then have stargates for inter galaxy transport... some a complete warzone... others areas for other races.... ah well just my imagination hopefully the stuff written a bit more up makes sense though.