From the update news post Incarnate said

"My impression is that for most newbies, the Oruns are ok, the Denteks get a little hard, and then everything else wipes the floor with them, unless a vet helps them with specific tactics."

Perhaps the faster road to getting Newbs up to speed, rather than totally re-working Bot AI, which can and will be very tricky, (larger development shops have entire teams devoted to AI), is some small changes to help mentors and students find each other and a larger scale change to the way mentoring is handled so as to make the system more dynamic, allowing new players to engage some of the harder bots sooner.

Suggestion one: Mentor Chat.
Designate a channel that automatically posts newbie reports for new players below level 2, perhaps the help channel (1). When they login, finish the training mission, get killed etc. Make the setting of this to on/off one of the first things new players get to decide. This way people seeking to mentor can notice when a new player is in trouble, and offer to help.

Suggestion two: PDA tab.
Add a PDA tab for available mentors. Allow players looking to mentor to post their availability, nation, levels, etc, and show this page to newbies in the opening instructions. This would enable those online looking to mentor a way of letting new players know they were available.

Suggestion three: Fix/change the mentor points system.
As it is now, it is trivial for a single person to self mentor with trial accounts, and in an afternoon game the system into giving them the points needed for a UC battery. Most do not do this, as the advantage of having access to the UC is lower than the time commitment. They are purchasable from other players, some even through automated systems, SCAR Bank for example. Not needing more than 5 points is even explained on the Wiki. I think it important to note, that if it is not worth the time to cheat the system, given how easy it is, that it certainly not worth it to do it legitimately.

I suggest that a new system be designed, that tracks not by good/bad mentor ratings, but against each level a player earns regardless, but for a limited duration. Let me explain.

After requesting a player be your mentor, and them accepting, all further levels earned automatically accrue mentor points for the mentor. This continues until the student either drops or switches to a different mentor. Mentors can maintain an unlimited number of students.

Once a point has been accrued for a player it is forever attached to the student and mentors account. Students can change mentors, and the new mentor gains points for the additional levels of the student, without changing the previously awarded levels.

Mentor points change however, in that they only apply to active students. What this means is that when each student signs in with a player, they update any applicable mentor accounts and extend the appropriate points for a duration of 30 days. When a mentor logs in, their account is checked, and any points belonging to players who have not logged in for 30 days are dropped.

This becomes self balancing, in that players that help new players through the first easy levels will be rewarded more than those who do later training. That said, teachers that abandon their students, or frustrate them into dropping, loose any benefit they achieved very quickly. This would motivate players to not only teach, but also to maintain relationships with students, with further training and community involvement to build staying power. Access to the higher mentor items would change from a "well I did this once, so now I have it" to "I better make sure those students/friends are happy or help new ones."

Obviously the value of mentor points would have to change and item requirements reviewed. Under this system helping one student to 5/5/5/5/5 would earn 25 mentor points. It currently takes at least two students to earn the first reward at 5 mentor points, so a factor of 10X may need to be applied to items across the board.

I know the devs are interested in improving mentorship and the overall experience for new players. I like the idea of these suggestions.

1) I like the general idea of Mentor Chat, but I would want to be sure that the new player's location was omitted. I'm afraid that somebody might decide to go and kill some newbs.

2) I like it.

3) An elegant solution.

honestly explaining a newbie how to give you a mentor point is just a pain in the arse i helped alot i don't have evven one point. why? because some start asking at lvl 4, there is loads of stuff to be learned then, grey space hive good bad configs... they were not able to mentor me. now i fucking give a shit on that crappy mentor system and so i also care less about newbs untill a better ystem shows up making it worth the time.
i myself still have all my mentor pooint regarding my levels i am unable to spend them anymore... what a pity for all the great people explaining stuff to me.

Yes, very good suggestions!

-- Schelling

Yes Shaded, I have found the same problem, that Newbs tend to start asking for help after they have gotten too far to give points.

The only way I have been able to get points, was to ask the previously leveled newb to make a new account, and level them, lather rinse, repeat, for a couple of alts, until the account was past its mentor point limit.

That is an awful lot to ask of and explain to a new player (about 1-1 1/2 hours). Because of this, I only did it twice, and now just buy my batteries and help people for free/fun.

I think at this point I should mention that the suggested system should only award points for the highest level alt on any one account. Otherwise alts could be used to progress "mentors" when in fact they are not mentoring anyone.

1) Good idea, with Whistler's stipulation that the pilot's location be omitted. There are assholes in this community that would take advantage of this just for the fun of getting a few free PKs.

2) Again, good idea.

3) For those (relatively few) of us who worked our asses off to get the third mentor badge in a legit fashion, this is a rather large slap in the face. It took me a year and a half to mentor enough people to get the badge. Your suggested system penalizes the mentor for any sort of absence on the part of the student, even ones that have nothing to do with the game. As it is written, if any player that was mentored by a given person (let's call them 'X') doesn't log in for 30 days for any reason, then X loses any mentor points that were given from helping that student. That's hardly reasonable--what happens if you mentor someone in the spring that goes away for the summer, but intends to come back afterwards? You lose the mentor points. What if you mentor someone, but they have to take a few month or two away from the game while they deal with more pressing financial issues? Again, you lose the mentor points, even if the player was going to come back. Completely unreasonable, especially in an environment where players come and go. If I mentor someone, anything gained from that should be permanently on my record, and not some transient thing that hinges on the student being permanently hooked and addicted to playing VO.

A better implementation would be to remove the rewards from the mentoring system entirely and make them separately obtainable items through mission trees. That way the people who are being mentors will be doing it because they want to, and not because there are ingame rewards associated with the deed.

Ahh, the old balancing act of "I should always have what I have earned, regardless of future events", vs "keep working, earn, and then spend."

It is one of the big questions for games of this nature. It basically comes down to the question of what do you always keep, (Levels, Badges, etc), and what do you have to keep earning (Credits, Drop Items, etc). Is mentoring something that once a certain level is reached, earns you un-removable rewards, as it does now, or is the act of mentoring to be rewarded as long as you continue to teach?

I guess that question will have to be answered ultimately by the developers, but I stand by my ascertation that mentoring should only be rewarded for those who continue to teach or maintain old students. Having it as a once off reward system allows for people to find "other" ways to get the reward, and makes those ways simpler and more profitable than going legit.

Perhaps a possible solution that could satisfy both needs, would be to institute that once a certain level is reached, it can not be taken away, provided that the teacher continues to earn mentor points, in the same 30 day period. The actual point counts would drop as students left, but the rewards associated with the players highest level attained would only be taken away if they stopped acting as a mentor.

This would satisfy your concerns about loosing something for situations "out of your control", while still making ongoing new player development something that "real" mentors pursue both for personal pleasure, and in game rewards.

It would be prudent to grandfather all those who already have the badge for current items, create new missions for access to those items, and then open up new items/badges to those who make a profession of training new players.

[EDIT: How cool would it be for professional mentors to have access to training weapons, like rails, flares, etc, that worked exactly like the standard, had unlimited ammo, but only did 1 point like the Orun training guns? ]

I do not agree that training should only be done without reward. Teaching new players is time consuming, and in many cases, not a lot of fun for the teacher. That sort of effort should be rewarded and recognized by the entire community.

All in all, I'd love for these ideas to be implemented. With number 3, that should be equitted to a the mentor being in a group with the other player, or what?

Personally, I thought of it as an always on feature, not related to grouping. A mentor takes on a student, and until the student either drops the mentor, or changes to a new mentor, all activities go towards that mentors credit.

There are times when training may require not being in the same group, basic combat training for example, as well as times when the training is not one on one, but rather funding the new player to go experiment against harder opponents alone, etc, etc. Some lessons can be practiced while the mentor is not around, and even off line.

A mentor should not always have to be around during the practice of the lessons taught.

mentor badge 3 = not worth it unless you cheat and i dont feel like it