Forums » Suggestions
Mines
Mines are currently under-used. One reason (I think) is because griefers use them to mine stations which is giving them a bad name. But once station defense is beefed up a bit, this won't really be a problem any more...
I think mines are potentially very cool. I also think that we need more types of mines and different ways to use them.
For example, does anyone besides me wish they had a small mine? I've been playing a centurion a lot lately (as an exploration vessel) and wish I had some sort of deterrent for pirates/griefers/chasers.
The whole thing got me to thinking about other mines. I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to throw out the following ideas for a more specific discussion. I'm thinking:
Small EMP mine
Payload: 20
Damage: 0
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...a small prox. mine that absorbs 100 energy and causes the turbo to shut off (as if you picked up the tab key). It's easy enough to re-turbo, but basically forces you to boost-tap when you don't want to. Several of these laid down in a row can slow an attacker enough that they will not be able to catch you again.
Small prox. mine
Payload: 12
Damage: 1000
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...a small prox. mine.
Large EMP mine
Payload: 12
Damage: 1000
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...same as the small EMP but bigger, and also causes some damage.
Small Scatter mine:
Payload: 60
Damage: 750 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. But they are contact-detonation only (not prox) and the area of effect isn't enough to trigger other mines in the group. In other words, a skilled pilot
can dodge his/her way through the mine field but it will slow them down.. and won't do too much damage if they hit a single mine. Effective against groups of pursuers.
Large Scatter mine:
Payload: 60
Damage: 1250 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. But they are contact-detonation only (not prox) and the area of effect isn't enough to trigger other mines in the group. Does more damage, but takes a large weapon slot.
Small "FireStorm" mine:
Payload: 40
Damage: 750 each
Proximity: 10
Blast Radius: 30m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. They are proximity triggered and will detonate neighboring mines in a circular "wall of fire" that will force an attacker to fly around the whole cluster of mines. If you hit a mine at the edge, you'll take one mine's worth of damage but if you're foolish enough to burst through the exact center you would take peripheral damage from ALL mines, potentially causing lots of damage. (remember periphery damage is less, so you would not take the full 750 from all mines)
Large "FireStorm" mine:
Payload: 20
Damage: 2000 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...as the small firestorm but does more damage, takes a large slot, and has a smaller payload (only two shots). I can see this as the "back off!" mine for large clumsy bomberrs like the ragnorak... to deter fighters while on a bombing run.
I think mines are potentially very cool. I also think that we need more types of mines and different ways to use them.
For example, does anyone besides me wish they had a small mine? I've been playing a centurion a lot lately (as an exploration vessel) and wish I had some sort of deterrent for pirates/griefers/chasers.
The whole thing got me to thinking about other mines. I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to throw out the following ideas for a more specific discussion. I'm thinking:
Small EMP mine
Payload: 20
Damage: 0
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...a small prox. mine that absorbs 100 energy and causes the turbo to shut off (as if you picked up the tab key). It's easy enough to re-turbo, but basically forces you to boost-tap when you don't want to. Several of these laid down in a row can slow an attacker enough that they will not be able to catch you again.
Small prox. mine
Payload: 12
Damage: 1000
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...a small prox. mine.
Large EMP mine
Payload: 12
Damage: 1000
Proximity Detonation: 30m
...same as the small EMP but bigger, and also causes some damage.
Small Scatter mine:
Payload: 60
Damage: 750 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. But they are contact-detonation only (not prox) and the area of effect isn't enough to trigger other mines in the group. In other words, a skilled pilot
can dodge his/her way through the mine field but it will slow them down.. and won't do too much damage if they hit a single mine. Effective against groups of pursuers.
Large Scatter mine:
Payload: 60
Damage: 1250 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. But they are contact-detonation only (not prox) and the area of effect isn't enough to trigger other mines in the group. Does more damage, but takes a large weapon slot.
Small "FireStorm" mine:
Payload: 40
Damage: 750 each
Proximity: 10
Blast Radius: 30m
...10 mines are scattered with each shot, with about 25m between each mine. They are proximity triggered and will detonate neighboring mines in a circular "wall of fire" that will force an attacker to fly around the whole cluster of mines. If you hit a mine at the edge, you'll take one mine's worth of damage but if you're foolish enough to burst through the exact center you would take peripheral damage from ALL mines, potentially causing lots of damage. (remember periphery damage is less, so you would not take the full 750 from all mines)
Large "FireStorm" mine:
Payload: 20
Damage: 2000 each
Proximity: none
Blast Radius: 15m
...as the small firestorm but does more damage, takes a large slot, and has a smaller payload (only two shots). I can see this as the "back off!" mine for large clumsy bomberrs like the ragnorak... to deter fighters while on a bombing run.
mines should have a small version too!
/me rubs his head after running into a couple prox mines while trying to pirate a prommie...
owie...
/me rubs his head after running into a couple prox mines while trying to pirate a prommie...
owie...
The only thing I have against a 'disrupts controls' mine (like your version of the EMP mine) is that it might _from the perspective of the server_ shut your controls off for alot longer than you think depending on the latency of the line.
I still want my avalon mines back...
Oooo a emp mine that doesn't help pirates more than traders.
Celebrim - good point. Maybe a dev could comment on how/if this could work?
Then again, maybe the devs are keeping silent and trying not to encourage me :-)
Then again, maybe the devs are keeping silent and trying not to encourage me :-)
plz put this on devs .....plz
I predict that the role of mines will change now that boost-tapping is gone.
Until now, they were the only way to get chasers off of your tail. In other words, they were "oil slicks" to prevent people from following you.
The real reason mines are developed, though, is to deny ground to the enemy during a battle. When you think about, in real wars you lay a mine field; you don't drive around in jeeps chucking them out of the back at people.
So, now maybe mines will be used more as area-denial weapons in the game. This could mean station mining is going to become popular again, or they may just become a rarely used item. How can we update/alter mines to fit the game better...? I'll be thinking about it as I play-test 3.2.7... no reports yet though.
Until now, they were the only way to get chasers off of your tail. In other words, they were "oil slicks" to prevent people from following you.
The real reason mines are developed, though, is to deny ground to the enemy during a battle. When you think about, in real wars you lay a mine field; you don't drive around in jeeps chucking them out of the back at people.
So, now maybe mines will be used more as area-denial weapons in the game. This could mean station mining is going to become popular again, or they may just become a rarely used item. How can we update/alter mines to fit the game better...? I'll be thinking about it as I play-test 3.2.7... no reports yet though.
"you don't drive around in jeeps chucking them out of the back at people."
Correct. You take out your uzi and fire out the back. When we get multi-player ships with rear-facing turrets... You can see where I'm going... However, you might also throw down spikes to pop the other vehicle's tires, like the EMP mines you suggested.
Correct. You take out your uzi and fire out the back. When we get multi-player ships with rear-facing turrets... You can see where I'm going... However, you might also throw down spikes to pop the other vehicle's tires, like the EMP mines you suggested.
Mine laying right now is too tedious, you can do at most 20 mines per run, i want to see a ship that can only hold mines and a lot of them but is expensive and fragile.
Yeah, a dedicated minelayer ship would be really cool... Hmmm... What if we actually did something with the rear ports, and made it so that those could be used for mines and rear-firing guns? The minelayer would just be a ship with a ton of rear ports...
Or we could just have a mine lay then have a few more move away.
(anyone thinking of DS9 right now? They had the coolest mine feild)
(anyone thinking of DS9 right now? They had the coolest mine feild)
OK... I had a chance to play last night. From what I saw, the mines still have a place as a "chase deterrent". In fact very much so.
See the "Turbo forever" thread for more on why.
I did think of a new mine, though:
A persistent mine that doesn't explode but causes collision damage and bounce (like when you hit an asteroid). Basically, you jettison this dense metal ball, and hope the guy behind you runs into it. They do not disappear when hit, and they do damage based on speed (like current collision damage), so they would only be deadly to those who turbo foolishly. They would stick around for about 10 seconds and then disappear.
"Persistent Mine"
Damage: collision damage*
Payload: small version= 12 mines/large version = 28 mins
Cost: 5000 (small) / 10000 (large)
Rate of fire: 1/second with a slight spread
Persistent for 10 seconds (maybe 20 seconds for the "L" version)
* is current collision damage based on mass? If so, give these lots of mass - they are small but very dense.
See the "Turbo forever" thread for more on why.
I did think of a new mine, though:
A persistent mine that doesn't explode but causes collision damage and bounce (like when you hit an asteroid). Basically, you jettison this dense metal ball, and hope the guy behind you runs into it. They do not disappear when hit, and they do damage based on speed (like current collision damage), so they would only be deadly to those who turbo foolishly. They would stick around for about 10 seconds and then disappear.
"Persistent Mine"
Damage: collision damage*
Payload: small version= 12 mines/large version = 28 mins
Cost: 5000 (small) / 10000 (large)
Rate of fire: 1/second with a slight spread
Persistent for 10 seconds (maybe 20 seconds for the "L" version)
* is current collision damage based on mass? If so, give these lots of mass - they are small but very dense.
Small mines? YES YES YES!!!!
If anyone here played "Infantry" (was an awesome game till they started charging for it :( ) they should know how valuable are the small mines ("bullet mines") there. They do minor damage, but they are small, and you can carry alot of them (max 15 if I remember correctly, or was it 25?). They do damage as a standard rifle there (so it's something like 750 here?) and can be thrown while moving. They are great for slowing persuers.
I would like to see something like this here aswell.
I also like the idea of a "shockwave mine" that throws the enemy far off course and might be able to slow down energy regeneration.
If anyone here played "Infantry" (was an awesome game till they started charging for it :( ) they should know how valuable are the small mines ("bullet mines") there. They do minor damage, but they are small, and you can carry alot of them (max 15 if I remember correctly, or was it 25?). They do damage as a standard rifle there (so it's something like 750 here?) and can be thrown while moving. They are great for slowing persuers.
I would like to see something like this here aswell.
I also like the idea of a "shockwave mine" that throws the enemy far off course and might be able to slow down energy regeneration.
Mmm... Self-replicating mines... *drools*
Another mine idea (if the engine can handle gravity) is the gravity mine.
You launch the mine and then three seconds later it emanates a gravity well that pulls everything into it at an exponential rate: only 20m/s at the edges but with 200m/s force at the center. So it's possible to turbo out of it (although slowly because you'd be "swimming upstream") if you catch on soon enough, but if not, you're stuck in the middle until the mine dissipates. Optionally, maybe you could shoot the mine, trading splash damage from the explosion for a quicker escape.
Gravity Mine
Proximity: 100m
Damage: 0
Effect: pulls objects towards the center of the well at a rate of from 20m/s to 200m/s.
Duration: 1 minute
[edit: on reflection, this mine might be triggered on proximity rather than a timer. That is, if anyone flies within 150m, it activates, and then if they get within the 100m, they start to get pulled in. This would make it useful as a defensive tool around flags (or whatever) instead of just being another chase-deterrent. ]
You launch the mine and then three seconds later it emanates a gravity well that pulls everything into it at an exponential rate: only 20m/s at the edges but with 200m/s force at the center. So it's possible to turbo out of it (although slowly because you'd be "swimming upstream") if you catch on soon enough, but if not, you're stuck in the middle until the mine dissipates. Optionally, maybe you could shoot the mine, trading splash damage from the explosion for a quicker escape.
Gravity Mine
Proximity: 100m
Damage: 0
Effect: pulls objects towards the center of the well at a rate of from 20m/s to 200m/s.
Duration: 1 minute
[edit: on reflection, this mine might be triggered on proximity rather than a timer. That is, if anyone flies within 150m, it activates, and then if they get within the 100m, they start to get pulled in. This would make it useful as a defensive tool around flags (or whatever) instead of just being another chase-deterrent. ]
*bump*
I love the "EMP Mines" and "Gravity Mines"
A mine that saps a target's energy rather than armor... brilliant! Also with gravity mines, perhaps they would exert a certain force rather than a certain acceleration so that the more massive ships with greater momentum would be less susceptible. (Although gravity technically pulls with unequal forces accelerating all masses equally....)
Do the ships take collision damage when they reach the center of the gravity well?
I love the "EMP Mines" and "Gravity Mines"
A mine that saps a target's energy rather than armor... brilliant! Also with gravity mines, perhaps they would exert a certain force rather than a certain acceleration so that the more massive ships with greater momentum would be less susceptible. (Although gravity technically pulls with unequal forces accelerating all masses equally....)
Do the ships take collision damage when they reach the center of the gravity well?
The "gravity mine" could consist of an extremely dense material that would cause collision damage (like an asteroid). So those with the energy to resist the pull would hit the center slowly and take very little damage. Those who didn't (or who foolishly speed into the thing) would take much more damage.
PS - I could see the potential for using these tactically for "gravity slings"... if the math would actually work out. Well... I mean, it did in Farscape. TV is real, right? ;-)
PS - I could see the potential for using these tactically for "gravity slings"... if the math would actually work out. Well... I mean, it did in Farscape. TV is real, right? ;-)
"Magnetic Mines"
When you get within 100m they're attracted to you, and when they get within 10m, they go off. Fly near someone else to shake them loose, or maybe sling-shot them away.
When you get within 100m they're attracted to you, and when they get within 10m, they go off. Fly near someone else to shake them loose, or maybe sling-shot them away.
How about Flash mines? They don't do damage, they just make a very bright light that lasts for 20 seconds or something like that. ...like the sun in the skybox, it would allow you to hide. It would require some lighting effects that I'm pretty sure don't exist yet, though.