Forums » Suggestions
User Large-scale ship ideas
I have a few ideas i have thought out thoroughly for the user cap ship when we get it that i think would help.
Manuvuering and Controlling - Large-scale ships have many turrets that are set to fire in about 170° of where they are facing. So this means you can fires from side to side to any other side while moving in one direction, yet how can you make use of those turrets on your back end if your ship is turning everytime you try to move your camera? Well this is my first idea and it is to change how you manuvuer a large ship compared to a small ship. A ship that is 50x bigger then a fighter has almost no need for strafing, since that is a combat manuvuer for dodging shots of all kinds. So i think it would be a good idea to change the strafing keys into turning keys, so that r turns the ship upwards, f turns it downwards, a to the left and d to the right,(w and s are still the same) while making the camera completely independent. The reason to do this would to allow you to fly your ship in one direction while firing your turrets in the other.
Combat and Crews - Since large scale ships can fire in all directions, the independent mouse control would really help in combat. Every turret that 'you' control follows your mouse as you move it, so if you are pointing your mouse to the right of your ship, every turret on the right side of your ship will follow it, and stop following it when it is out of its field of vision/rotation. If you click the right mouse button, all the turrets that are follow your mouse fire, this will give the illusion that the ship isn't being manned by 1 person, so it is more realistic, the turrets wont be a 100% accurate nor simentanious fire for even more realism.
This works fantastically if your target is at least 500 meters wide, but what about those pesky little fighters that come in and try to pick off single turrets and cripple you when your shield is down? Thats when *Joey Vondalle on the right wing turret gets off his arse and opens fire on that fighter, along with every other npc crewmember on that side of your ship that you hired back at that one station for a few dozen thousand credits daily as a whole. That's right, npc crews that you hire to man turrets to take down any fighter that gets too close to you/opens fire on you. This allows you to fire at large ships (you get to keep some turrets for yourself you know) without worrying about fighters cumulating on starboard or any other side of your ship. However, you CAN take out little fighters by yourself so crews is a luxury that you have to pay for. It would make the game even more realistic if crews had a real-time paying schedule, such as every real time 24 hours you pay them so and so, you can also fire crews if you dont need them anymore so if you are going on a vacation you dont have to worry about going bankrupt.
Half-cooked idea for more some other time - Fighter Bays, hiring npc fighters that at the press of a key scramble and atk anything that appears red to them..... for a much greater price then npc turret crews.
I believe i explained these ideas thoroughly enough, perhaps a tutorial on cap ship controlling would be a good idea when they come out..... because what i said above about turning with strafe keys and only controlling turrets with the mouse is probably alot more confusing to use then said.... it would make alot of vets rooks again.... but the whole thing brings a new vision to combat, strategy....
Manuvuering and Controlling - Large-scale ships have many turrets that are set to fire in about 170° of where they are facing. So this means you can fires from side to side to any other side while moving in one direction, yet how can you make use of those turrets on your back end if your ship is turning everytime you try to move your camera? Well this is my first idea and it is to change how you manuvuer a large ship compared to a small ship. A ship that is 50x bigger then a fighter has almost no need for strafing, since that is a combat manuvuer for dodging shots of all kinds. So i think it would be a good idea to change the strafing keys into turning keys, so that r turns the ship upwards, f turns it downwards, a to the left and d to the right,(w and s are still the same) while making the camera completely independent. The reason to do this would to allow you to fly your ship in one direction while firing your turrets in the other.
Combat and Crews - Since large scale ships can fire in all directions, the independent mouse control would really help in combat. Every turret that 'you' control follows your mouse as you move it, so if you are pointing your mouse to the right of your ship, every turret on the right side of your ship will follow it, and stop following it when it is out of its field of vision/rotation. If you click the right mouse button, all the turrets that are follow your mouse fire, this will give the illusion that the ship isn't being manned by 1 person, so it is more realistic, the turrets wont be a 100% accurate nor simentanious fire for even more realism.
This works fantastically if your target is at least 500 meters wide, but what about those pesky little fighters that come in and try to pick off single turrets and cripple you when your shield is down? Thats when *Joey Vondalle on the right wing turret gets off his arse and opens fire on that fighter, along with every other npc crewmember on that side of your ship that you hired back at that one station for a few dozen thousand credits daily as a whole. That's right, npc crews that you hire to man turrets to take down any fighter that gets too close to you/opens fire on you. This allows you to fire at large ships (you get to keep some turrets for yourself you know) without worrying about fighters cumulating on starboard or any other side of your ship. However, you CAN take out little fighters by yourself so crews is a luxury that you have to pay for. It would make the game even more realistic if crews had a real-time paying schedule, such as every real time 24 hours you pay them so and so, you can also fire crews if you dont need them anymore so if you are going on a vacation you dont have to worry about going bankrupt.
Half-cooked idea for more some other time - Fighter Bays, hiring npc fighters that at the press of a key scramble and atk anything that appears red to them..... for a much greater price then npc turret crews.
I believe i explained these ideas thoroughly enough, perhaps a tutorial on cap ship controlling would be a good idea when they come out..... because what i said above about turning with strafe keys and only controlling turrets with the mouse is probably alot more confusing to use then said.... it would make alot of vets rooks again.... but the whole thing brings a new vision to combat, strategy....
I think the idea is to *not* have the ship manned by one person, so creating such an illusion wouldn't be necessary. You'd need a full crew to utilize all of the turrets manually, and the AI would have to take over when you don't have one.
Maneuvering would be a test of tactical skill rather than tactile, and while the ship's main engines would provide only forward thrust, it would still be important to have some minimal lateral thrust control for maneuverability in combat. You would want to be able to control distance and trajectory while exposing your weapons for a full broadside, and be able to roll and strafe defensively to prevent concentrated damage from another capital vessel. i.e., the objective isn't to dodge, but to expose undamaged areas of the shields and hull to prevent heavy fire from weakening one area and punching through.
EDIT: Link to an older thread where I outlined one potential ship configuration including defensive fighters:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11466?page=3#173103 - diagram
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11466#142459 - descriptions
Maneuvering would be a test of tactical skill rather than tactile, and while the ship's main engines would provide only forward thrust, it would still be important to have some minimal lateral thrust control for maneuverability in combat. You would want to be able to control distance and trajectory while exposing your weapons for a full broadside, and be able to roll and strafe defensively to prevent concentrated damage from another capital vessel. i.e., the objective isn't to dodge, but to expose undamaged areas of the shields and hull to prevent heavy fire from weakening one area and punching through.
EDIT: Link to an older thread where I outlined one potential ship configuration including defensive fighters:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11466?page=3#173103 - diagram
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11466#142459 - descriptions
K.... first of all... "That's right, npc crews that you hire to man turrets to take down any fighter that gets too close to you/opens fire on you. This allows you to fire at large ships (you get to keep some turrets for yourself you know) without worrying about fighters cumulating on starboard or any other side of your ship.". Would you want to be able to fire only one turret at a time where you intend to do the most damage, no, the independent mouse control acts as turret main control, all turrets you dont have a npc manning follow it and fire where you aim (if it is in their field of rotation). This is alot simpler and less npc dependent then only controlling 1 turret out of a dozen or two that have to hit what you want to hit.
Second, if you attended a cap ship war recently, you'll notice they dont strafe, they dont NEED to strafe to avoid being hit in vital areas, they can just turn perpendicular to the shot and thrust to off put its intended point of contact. I also never said q and r would be changed, even these ships need to roll for a basic range of movement to better avoid roids. Strafing is unnecessary for a ship of this size, because it starts to work like the ships of the Caribbean times, rather then trying to keep facing the ship towards them, they try to keep the sides with the most firepower faced towards their target, eliminating the need for strafing. It feels kind of like you didnt really read the whole thing before deciding to criticize it :(, that hurts man.
However defensive fighters would work well indeed, and the idea of *letting* other players dock your ship to man turrets/just chill is a good idea, except that there ship would have to take up cargo space, im sure that was mentioned in your links though.
Second, if you attended a cap ship war recently, you'll notice they dont strafe, they dont NEED to strafe to avoid being hit in vital areas, they can just turn perpendicular to the shot and thrust to off put its intended point of contact. I also never said q and r would be changed, even these ships need to roll for a basic range of movement to better avoid roids. Strafing is unnecessary for a ship of this size, because it starts to work like the ships of the Caribbean times, rather then trying to keep facing the ship towards them, they try to keep the sides with the most firepower faced towards their target, eliminating the need for strafing. It feels kind of like you didnt really read the whole thing before deciding to criticize it :(, that hurts man.
However defensive fighters would work well indeed, and the idea of *letting* other players dock your ship to man turrets/just chill is a good idea, except that there ship would have to take up cargo space, im sure that was mentioned in your links though.
imho, guild / user -owned cappies should *not* have npc turrets.
if you're big enough to buy a cappy, it's because you have friends or (better yet) a guild capable of manning it.
as for the rest, this is so far off that i wont waste your time with my comments on cappy navigation. i think it's been covered enough.
if you're big enough to buy a cappy, it's because you have friends or (better yet) a guild capable of manning it.
as for the rest, this is so far off that i wont waste your time with my comments on cappy navigation. i think it's been covered enough.
Actually, hiring NPC's is planned UC, and the rest of the idea sounds very plausible. SO if we are going to be able to hire NPC's, why wouldn't we want them to be able to man a capship?
Don't get me wrong, every idea needs work, but this is one of the better cap ship control ideas that I have seen.
Don't get me wrong, every idea needs work, but this is one of the better cap ship control ideas that I have seen.
I think it would be a mistake to force PC-controlled turrets. I see what you mean (I think), upper case, but in my opinion, in the days of gravitic engines, not having AI-controlled turrets sounds pretty... unbelievable. Somewhere, the suspended disbelief kicks back in.
Well one last thing before i just let this one go and hope for the best of all of VO. Think about this long and hard, do you want to rely on a dozen people all of whom have very different schedules, showing up on time to man your cap, putting the ship in there hands every time it is attacked? Or would you prefer a crew of *'s that never leave you for anything all the way to the end?
I mean it is a good idea to have a couple sentient beings on the ship to coordinate attacks and inform the captain of things, but they have lives outside of VO (i think), so it is a good idea to also have a full time crew that live in VO, npcs.
Since i said this is the last thing, ill just edit it to respond to zamzx zik, that would be the idea, but the problem is that there needs to be parameters the captain can set, such as which turrets are off-limits from players, which ones npcs are assigned to, and what people can even board the cap ship
I mean it is a good idea to have a couple sentient beings on the ship to coordinate attacks and inform the captain of things, but they have lives outside of VO (i think), so it is a good idea to also have a full time crew that live in VO, npcs.
Since i said this is the last thing, ill just edit it to respond to zamzx zik, that would be the idea, but the problem is that there needs to be parameters the captain can set, such as which turrets are off-limits from players, which ones npcs are assigned to, and what people can even board the cap ship
it should be how it is now; capships use the auto-aim and junk until a player gets into a turret
yoda, i believe hire-a-npc concept is to have npc ships as escorts and what-not. i suppose it could be expanded to manning turrets but i would envision a cost to that. not a freebie.
tosh, in the days of gravitic engines, not having guild banks sounds pretty... unbelievable. har har ;-) but my point was about the freenessitivity of the concept of ai-driven turrets. not the plausibility of it.
the problem arrise from rich players (and there are plenty) who would buy gigantic turret-forteresses-of-death and roam sectors to piss people off.
imagine genka characters with 23 turrets.
tosh, in the days of gravitic engines, not having guild banks sounds pretty... unbelievable. har har ;-) but my point was about the freenessitivity of the concept of ai-driven turrets. not the plausibility of it.
the problem arrise from rich players (and there are plenty) who would buy gigantic turret-forteresses-of-death and roam sectors to piss people off.
imagine genka characters with 23 turrets.
couldnt that happen anyways if they got some buddies and a bunch of hire-a-npc escorts? At least the npc turrets would be bound to the ship....
I'm srry but i just have to point out flaws in your response, anything in this game can be abused with enough effort.....
I'm srry but i just have to point out flaws in your response, anything in this game can be abused with enough effort.....
the whole point of this game is to play. if you want big ships and have plenty friends to man the turrets, by all means, do.
if there are enough people to man them it's the best thing to do. if you have to man them with npcs, then there ought to be a cost. and an objective.
say, "hire an npc to take down a trident" or "hire an npc to hunt down [faction]" but not "hire an npc to hunt [player]" or "hire an npc to randomly shoot crap".
if there are enough people to man them it's the best thing to do. if you have to man them with npcs, then there ought to be a cost. and an objective.
say, "hire an npc to take down a trident" or "hire an npc to hunt down [faction]" but not "hire an npc to hunt [player]" or "hire an npc to randomly shoot crap".
If you hire a npc, then you have to pay it, just like a normal person. I think npcs to man turrets would work like onboard escorts, they simply take care of some of the fighting. Just because you want a very restrictive and exclusive setup where only you and a dozen of your friends roam in a fully functional cap doesn't mean you need to give people who want it to be fun this kind of crap. My idea would be that npc crews would only atk HOSTILES, if they are red, it is for a reason!
My point wasn't about what the caps *DO*, it was about what they *SHOULD* do.
No, the VO caps as they currently are have no need for tactical maneuvering, but realistically, they would, and if we're going to make them a key point of player combat, they should. Localized damage should be an important aspect of capship fights, and so maneuvering to prevent and deliver it is necessary.
No, the VO caps as they currently are have no need for tactical maneuvering, but realistically, they would, and if we're going to make them a key point of player combat, they should. Localized damage should be an important aspect of capship fights, and so maneuvering to prevent and deliver it is necessary.
Perhaps.... strafing would probably be easier then turning up or down from the shot and putting the pedal to the medal... we would still need a way to give the user as much control as possible over the turrets that are not being auto-manned, or else guaranteed caps will not be nearly as fun...
As long as the user has as much control over the cap ships turrets AND manuvuering without it being really confusing, it should be fun. What i dont want is to HAVE to rely on other people as a whole to make sure MY multi-million credit vessel isn't destroyed. Call me paranoid if you want but i trust a very small fraction of VO to care that much...
Hmmm if we just found a way to make it so you had the mouse seperately to control the turrets then i would be fine.
As long as the user has as much control over the cap ships turrets AND manuvuering without it being really confusing, it should be fun. What i dont want is to HAVE to rely on other people as a whole to make sure MY multi-million credit vessel isn't destroyed. Call me paranoid if you want but i trust a very small fraction of VO to care that much...
Hmmm if we just found a way to make it so you had the mouse seperately to control the turrets then i would be fine.