Inc, I think you should rethink having all nation space as an utter safe zone. There's an awful lot of it, and as past uses of Metana and Verasi have shown diversity in the game terrain within a nation makes for some interesting content. Basically, there's no need to protect it all, and not protecting it all--if properly implemented--makes good sense from both content and RP angles.

(1) Having a weak point deep in nation space shouldn't, if properly flagged/signed and located, cause new and young pilots any problems. This is because they're more than able to grow and develop within the absolutely protected space anyway. Venturing into space that is itself not protected but which lies deep within protected space makes a good stepping stone towards their eventual transition to hostile space.

First, the UIT unmonitored WHs should, perhaps, be moved to Nyrius. The problem with Verasi is that one doesn't have to fly through much heavily protected space first. Either way, there's no problem with Verasi or Nyrius, but for Metana, noobs should no longer start in Eo. Further, there should be a WH buoy that tells pilots attempting to enter the WH to such a system about the dangers and requiring an act on their part to continue. Older pilots of sufficient level would pass through normally.

Also, to follow up on something Miharu said earlier, I'm not adverse to a similar system being made part of Serco space. From an RP aspect, I think it is sillier: Serco are both compact (unlike Itani) and heavily militarized (unlike UIT). However, if it comes down to it, having such a system in Serco space will allow for the same sort of additional content and dangers that make unmonitored Metana and Nyrius/Verasi a good idea. I would suggest Rhamus, given its similar location to Metana; maybe only one WH should be unmonitored.

(2) The fact that no SF launches for kills made in unmonitored WH sectors isn't a problem; this is already the case for nonWH sectors that aren't monitored. But even with the faction redux and the demise of FF protections, I think that the non-loss of faction standing could be a problem. Basically, unmonitored WH systems deep in faction space are only "balanced" if a predator must first successfully evade a few systems of monitored space that are hostile AND cannot resupply at stations once there. If they're above -599 with the Nation at issue, they shouldn't be able to kill without consequence at an unmonitored WH and then fly out or repair at station of that nation.

I propose that while the Rhamus/Nyrius(Verasi)/Metana WHs remain unmonitored for the purposes of SF response, all kills in those sectors should have the normal faction standing consequences. That way, you have to work hard to get there; you're on your own behind enemy lines while you're there; and getting out is just as hard if not harder.

On a separate note, I agree with TBF about the creation of choke-points in Gray. Ideally, there should be no station/monitoring protrusion of the Nations into the Gray systems. In that case, convoys would be more easily vulnerable upon entry to Gray, and piracy easier because you can all lurk at a central choke point.

This would, however, require elimination of:

Serco station in Helios.

UIT stations in Ukari and Edras.

Itani station in Edras.

Assuming the sectors were flipped to "unmonitored", could these four stations be removed without FUBARing missions et. al? Or rendered defenseless (no SF, no station guards)?

Here's a thought. Move Edras I2 and B11 off of the wormholes to a different sector in Edras. Do the same for Helios B7 and Ukari L2 in their systems. That way, no stations are removed and the wormholes are still cleared.

-Nautargos

A couple of points about the method to my madness:

I intend to create a new system of newbie advancement, which will essentially force people through a few more steps before they can go out into the "real" world. They'll progressively gain access to flying in a Sector, System, then Nation, with decreasing levels of "safeness". Plus, I need them to have enough real estate and diversity of destinations to be able to learn navigation, trading and so on. This is part of why I will not be giving up any current UIT space.. they're small enough as it is. Plus, it's likely we're going to need to expand the universe anyway: we want to make territorial conquest a larger aspect of the game, but I can't allow existing territory to become too volatile/dynamic without possibly upsetting basic game functionality (and newbie training). So, there will likely be some expansion of grayspace (and potentially conquerable grayspace), which will make the defended Nation territory a little less overwhelming in relative size.

I also want to maintain some reasonable quantity of relatively "safe" nation space to allow some diversity of gameplay for those who just aren't all that combative (or aren't in the mood at the time), but still want to be able to find something to do. I know there isn't much point to mining as of yet, and no crafting, but I'm looking towards the future on all of this.

All of the above said, I still agree that it should be possible for enemies of a given nation to breach border security (if sufficiently skilled) and lose themselves in some unmonitored interior of the nation. On their own and behind enemy lines, so to speak. This won't be possible in Capitol systems, as those will be completely Guarded, but it should be possible in non-capitol areas like Metana and the like.

However, I'm not totally sure that the wormholes themselves should be unmonitored. But, I suppose since my use of monitoring and guarding sectors is changing, I could also change the definition of what monitored "means", ie.. making Monitored sectors only reflect faction change and never attract SFs, as lecter says. Or, perhaps there could be a greater delay of some sort, or higher requirements of attracting a SF. Anyway, not sure on this, but I'll think about it. One way or the other, it will be possible to breach a nation's territory and sit in a non-wormhole sector in a sufficiently interior system, without being chased. But there should probably be some response that keeps one from harassing people there indefinitely. After all, a skilled pilot with energy weapons could probably take out many, many, many convoys (or upper-level newbies) before being destroyed. Scout patrols searching systems with normal sensor limitations, or maybe a good use-case for a revived bounty system. Anyway.. I'll think about that a bit more, but Metana and the like will remain Monitored for now, until Eo/Itan/Divinia become better defended and, as suggested, there's some notification that "beware all ye who enter here".

This is all straying a bit far from the original topic, but I wanted to respond to clarify a little. Anyway, for this week, I think I'll just be moving the wormhole-stations in Edras and unmonitoring those sectors. Ray and I are working out the mechanics of having the missions, convoys, inventories and other stuff cleanly migrated, whereever those stations end up.

Also, in general I'm fine with pulling nation stations back within borders. I'm just hardening borders (and defending capitols), and trying to better refine what grayspace really "means". Corporations within grayspace, well, their defenses and relations are their own problem, cross them at your peril.

what about itani, uit and serco space would be a bit more clustered around a central system or two and these two are the beginner area with guarded wh entries into the rest of the nation space.

one WH connects those two starting sectors... so newbies could even get a "license" for passing wormwholes which may be one of the last tests to do ....

whenever before they get close to one of the stations leading into other nation space they will get a message that outside the starting area dangerous folk... whatever...

as an enemy you can try to get in there. but the stations turrets will make you bleed for it and the SF chasing you all the way also a cap guarding the interstartingzone wh envolved in a mission i suggest. just like quests "kill 20 rats and report to ..."
going there like "ahh wow gosh this tower is huge and ohhh..." vendetta in all it's beauty in the first mssions already...

after you were told some basic principles trading mining and so on... you are officially released into the open owning one mining / transport ship and minimum one fighter.

Same for other space why is only uit space everything reachable with a few jumps? why is there no "grey" space between serco and itani space does not need to be Corvus space and empty sector with axia tunguska mining station would suit and the two empires there have their border patrol missions...

border wh protectet by one garrison station so nation space is not really safe after intruders passed it.

why not having 2 wh jumps between itani and uit space and systems without nation influence = greyspace which does not always mean piratespace. coz piratespace is corvus space.

more connections between systems couldresult in difficulties finding someone to shoot at right because actually the wh's are places to meet eachother...
if there are more connections there would be more possible routes... also why are there no dead end systems only connected to the rest of the world by one WH? other systems may have 4 sectors with 5 wh's in them...

last but not least why is it a 2d map?

to sum it up i suggest 4 diffrent types of space
- newbiearea heavyly guarded by nation forces.
- nationspace monitored by a nation also guarded but already area of possible conflict.
- greyspace space other factions are doing their business in, monitoring either entire systems or just their stations sectors.
- contested space for later "build, conquer and defend" stations
mainly consisting of roidfields and hive activity...
only there the rare ore is mined.

"Anyway, for this week, I think I'll just be moving the wormhole-stations in Edras and unmonitoring those sectors. Ray and I are working out the mechanics of having the missions, convoys, inventories and other stuff cleanly migrated, whereever those stations end up."

omg thank you!

I have an old EC-88 in Edras I-2, I hope it doesn't get lost. :P

Why not have defending 'safe' space a mission? Or if not a mission, something more dynamic such as an SOS that is broadcast to nation members in the system?

If you're in the system, you get a message "Mayday, Mayday... <Pirate> attacking <Friendly ship> in Sol II E14, all ships please respond".

This would add to the feel that there is a living world out there, give newbies and traders warning that someone potentially dangerous is about, and give PVPrs something to do by hunting down incursions.

Killing the attacker could give Combat XP and/or bounty payment, or frequent attacks in a short period of time could spawn a defence mission which gives the same.

Players would need a way to broadcast SOS in such systems (though only if they've just been attacked), which could summon both PC and NPC defence forces.

EDIT: Possibly also the option for a Guild to 'protect' a sector, so guild members or ships deemed friendly could send an SOS to online guild members. Maybe guilds could pay for a standing NPC force to be stationed near the area (the bigger/better the force, the more it costs).