I think there needs to be a greater penalty for Player Killing as far as Faction Reputation goes. If not permanant, then there needs to be a timer that makes it so that the faction of the player you kill considers you KOS. This can be temporary, or permanant, but something has to make it so that UIT cannot go to Deneb B-12, kill Secro and then retreat into GR O-4 base. I am sure there are other examples of this, but this seems like an exploit to me. Attacking people of faction a, and then being protected by faction a's guards....

*crickets*

yeah. i think most of us agree and i believe this is being looked upon in the faction system redux under way.

LOL... I think I know which UIT antirelic is referring to...

fosters terrible mistrust when a freindly fires on you and says its because hes a "pirate",then that "pirate" gets protected by station guards or strike force.

its a huge exploit,that thankfully only a very few are using.

It is a two way street. They can fire on you, and you can fire on them. If booming you should affect thier standing, then booming them should affect your standing.

Be carefull what you ask for. You might get it.

Sounds like Rode-a to me.

I think it's important that you listen to TRS (at least just this one time :P) anti. This is one change that I do not think we should have in the faction standings. Why would the Itani be reporting Serco-kiling UIT to the Serco govt for punishment? Keep factions within their space!

Um, the Serco being killed or their battle group would damn well report it.

As for TRS: It is simply untrue that "If booming you should affect their standing, then booming them should affect your standing." The context is a Serco engaged in Border Skirmish being boomed by a UIT who then repairs at the nearest Serco station; the Serco booming his attacker would upset the Serco higher ups not at all. The UIT, however, would ideally be in hot water for attacking a Serco military group's members.

The real problem is that while in the situation I just described there should be different faction treatment, it's not the case always. If the Serco goes to Deneb while on the BS mission and attacks a UIT trader (who has POS Serco standing) in a moth, it seems like the Serco should lose standing. And surely, if the UIT drops mines and kills the Serco, he shouldn't lose faction or be unable to dock at GR O-4 to repair.

What's missing is a more finely grained faction system, that could deal with each of these two (and other) scenarios appropriately. Until such a thing exists, just accept that some unmonitored sectors allow for weird and seemingly exploitive behavior. And if you still feel upset by it, go to Jallik E-4, bot up your Itani standing, haul a couple of moths worth of Xith to Deneb O-3, grab a valk, and go boom Itani traders at the Metana wormholes to work off your frustrations. Remember to repair and reload at the Itani stations, as well as selling the loot at them: Metana's WHs are unmonitored.

Many kills are strait forward simple acts of agression on the part of a single party. But... some situations are too complex to make a reasonable determination of the guilty party by any fixed formula. In nation space, a very simple formula is used, and it is commonly known and understood. Even then, many players try to trick others into inadvertantly falling on the wrong side of the formula. A war zone is by it's very nature a risky place to be, and trying to figure out who did what to who (not to even mention why), is generially an exercise in frustration. Some serco claims some uit attacked him in sector X, and he even has witnesses. Does that make it an open and shut case?

What is the real complaint here? You want then to have to dock at an itani station after killing a serco? They should have to have two characters? One for killing serco and one for killing itani? What exactly do you think your going to solve in this thread?

Look. It doesnt need to be "permanant". It can be a 30 min "KOS" and then undone. This will discourage UIT from attacking Secro Players in B-12 and then running into GR-O4 for protection and respawn.

A "non permanant" major faction decrease will keep this exploit from continually happening. Especially when you die, you end back up in your home territory instead of "right on top of the corpses you just made".

"What happens in Itani space stays in Itani space"

I think this is a bad idea perpetuated by anger at a specific person/circumstance. Spamming pisses off a lot of people, but it's a part of the game and not going to be removed. When complaining about a runner one is often told "just go somewhere else," so if this continues to be a problem for you you should try finding fun in another system. There are plenty of things to do in VO (not as many as we'd all like, but enough that you can have fun until a jerk logs off).

I still fail to understand. What is to keep the uit from killing a serco and then running to an itani station? Once he is at a station, what differance does it make which nation the station is?

And what is the name of the uit in question?

Simple. If a Viper shot you Roda, wouldn't you be yelling at the Viper higher ups? (rhetorical situation)

Its not one instance. Its common sense. If you attack Secro players, you shouldnt be able to hide in a Secro station, and certainly not be defended by Secro guards. Same would go for attacking Itani players and then hiding in an Itani station, and same for UIT etc...

If UIT attacks Secro and flees into Itani station, thats fine. But when UIT attacks Secro and flees into a Secro station, then thats ridiculous.

I know why some people dont like this idea. Becuase they like being Itani/Secro being able to get Proms/Valks. They want to eat their cake and have it too (and yes, thats the proper way the saying goes). Bottom line, if you attack a factions players, you should not be welcome by that faction, even if for just a short period of time.

I dont care about a particular person or instance. Its just common sense. I have no problem vacating war zones when I'm getting my ass handed to me, but when that asshat can follow me to whatever station I dock at, dock there, track me down and kill me at any station in Secro space AND home there at the same time, there is something wrong with the game. Same way its a pisser when someones blasting you in your backside, and they jump from Deneb B-12 to GR O4 and you go behind them only to watch them dock safely at your station.

Anyway. Its well understood why people wont like this. No one likes their cheap trick taken away.

I am strongly opposed to Itani in proms and Serco in valks.

It should be impossible (as it soon will be) for anyone to have both Serco and Itani faction.

If I were killed by a UIT in Serco space, and saw them hiding in Deneb I would accept that.

Lecter used to do it all of the time.
Lets hope Faction system redux will put an end to it.

If some one attacks you in serco space, and you have positive serco standing, then they will suffer a penalty to their serco standing. This penalty can only be reversed by doing something for the serco to get them to increase the standing back up. If someone killed you at a serco station, they may have had high standing, and could afford the penalty once, or even twice, before having to build their standing back up. If someone attacks me in nation space, and they are not already hated by that nation, I will commonly let them kill me, just to inflict the penalty on them.

If this player killed you in serco space, and you where in good serco standing, and you did not inflict a temporary serco kos on yourself (by shooting at someone in a station no fire zone), then they did suffer some penalty. And, that penalty will not just go away with time. They will have to spend time and effort to correct it. Like I say, if their standing was high, then a single penalty might not stop them from docking. But generially, the penalty is considered by most to be far greater than the cost of your ship. If he was still laughing, it would be because he didn't want you to know his loss.

But your original post was about war zones in Deneb. And there are no standing penalties in these zones. He can retreat to a nation space, just as you can. If you extend standing penalties to Deneb, someone will cry to extend them to grey, and then the whole galaxy. They will insist that if you kill a serco anywhere in the galaxy, that all serco will hate you, etc... The long term impact of such a system could have extreme result. Such a system might eventually preclude players of differing nations from associating with each other on peacefull terms.

Are you sure you understand the standing system as it works now?
What is the name of the UIT that killed you in Serco space.
What is your own Serco standing at?

TRS, you must have missed the several times I said "TEMPORARY PENALTY" which would prevent the situation I was talking about. Let me explain this, and make it extremely clear:

If you are a Canadian, and fly to Iraq, and shoot American Soldiers, I PROMISE YOU, that when you show up at Camp X-Ray, you will either be killed or imprisoned for an extremely long time and in very uncomfortable surroundings. It doesnt matter that its a "war zone". You attacked that bases troops. Get it?

Same should apply to Deneb.

Put a 30 min timer for KOS because of a PK, this will cause UIT to carefully consider what group of players they are killing, because then they will have to retreat and home somewhere else.

Considering PvP is the only content this game has, I don't see any point in discouraging it by imposing faction hits for fighting in unmonitores sectors. If you want to be safe from attack, only fly in nation space. People go to Latos and the rest of grey for a reason.