Forums » Suggestions
Posted some pics to illustrate what I was saying..
I'll preface this by saying that I require no such directional indicator on my HUD. I use my surroundings to get an idea of my heading. If there aren't any nearby objects, it doesn't really matter, does it? If anything IS added, I humbly request that we be able to toggle it off. I think most people wouldn't want it after they've played for awhile.
This said, I think I would spend more time than is safe trying to decipher what the suggested indicators are telling me. I think that a better interface would be to use artificial cues that mimic the cues our brains use to figure our trajectory. I envision something similar to "space junk", but simpler and integrated into the HUD. Imagine short parallel rows of dots either in a small box, within the radar, or along the sides of the screen. Forward motion would cause the dots to appear to come toward you, while reverse would make them appear to move away. Motion in other planes would cause the rows to change in angle. Imagine those old Vector graphics driving games (for those of you old enough to remember vector graphics) or driving on a dark foggy night using the Botts Dots. At any rate, this method would be more effective in that there would be little time wasted in looking at the indicator and deciphering it. One probably wouldn't even need to look at it because our brains are attuned to picking up motion cues from the periphery of our vision.
This said, I think I would spend more time than is safe trying to decipher what the suggested indicators are telling me. I think that a better interface would be to use artificial cues that mimic the cues our brains use to figure our trajectory. I envision something similar to "space junk", but simpler and integrated into the HUD. Imagine short parallel rows of dots either in a small box, within the radar, or along the sides of the screen. Forward motion would cause the dots to appear to come toward you, while reverse would make them appear to move away. Motion in other planes would cause the rows to change in angle. Imagine those old Vector graphics driving games (for those of you old enough to remember vector graphics) or driving on a dark foggy night using the Botts Dots. At any rate, this method would be more effective in that there would be little time wasted in looking at the indicator and deciphering it. One probably wouldn't even need to look at it because our brains are attuned to picking up motion cues from the periphery of our vision.
I still think that the single easiest solution is to add a blip to the current radar.
I would go with Wistlers on an "intuitive" system, except that there is no current standard for such a system.
There are a lot of things every one would like to add to the game, and this is just one more thing competing for the devs attentions. I think we have covered most of the better ideas, and I suggest we start sorting this out to a conclusion.
I would go with Wistlers on an "intuitive" system, except that there is no current standard for such a system.
There are a lot of things every one would like to add to the game, and this is just one more thing competing for the devs attentions. I think we have covered most of the better ideas, and I suggest we start sorting this out to a conclusion.
Hmm. I revise my opinion and agree with TRS... it's also the most elegant solution. To distinguish it from other objects on the radar, it could be a green triangle, pointing upwards, like the greek capital letter delta.
I disagree... I think a visual cue located on the HUD makes the most sense. Think about trying to line up your flight path with an entry dock while fleeing from a pirate at 200 m/s.
Maybe an option for using one of the two or turning it off?
I'm more fond of a radar indicator, myself--it'd keep the HUD less cluttered.
I'm more fond of a radar indicator, myself--it'd keep the HUD less cluttered.
Pics look broken to me, netherby. :(
dancingfortune.com no workie for me. Can't even ping it. Unknown host.
dancingfortune.com no workie for me. Can't even ping it. Unknown host.
In the game, turn on mlook (the ";" key), and fly around a little. get a feel for how the nose of the ship tries to follow the mouse. hold down your turbo button and look around. notice that the radar always follows your mouse (not the nose of the ship). when you put your mouse's crosshairs over an object, the radar's crosshairs are also over the same object. it all lines up. it's perfect.
here is what I prepose:
Take that indicator that tells you where your ship is pointed and copy it onto the radar, not for direction of travel, but for the same thing it represents on the screen, the direction your ship is facing. (I would be nice if it had finer lines and/or transparancy, so it didn't overwhelm your attention.) This indicator only shows up on screen when in mlook mode, so the radar's copy should follow suit.
For direction of travel, add a indicator ( a circle, or a smaller copy of the indicator we just copied, just bigger than the mouse's crosshairs, so they look right when they all line up) to both the screen and the radar.
And lastly, a faint outline on the radar showing your current screens "field of view" (fov). This outline would change size when you hit your zoom button (the "I" key).
Add options for each indicator for off, screen only, radar only, radar and screen, and fov (jumps to radar when it falls outside your fov).
edit: should we make it so that ion storms blank your screen, so that you have to "fly by radar"?
here is what I prepose:
Take that indicator that tells you where your ship is pointed and copy it onto the radar, not for direction of travel, but for the same thing it represents on the screen, the direction your ship is facing. (I would be nice if it had finer lines and/or transparancy, so it didn't overwhelm your attention.) This indicator only shows up on screen when in mlook mode, so the radar's copy should follow suit.
For direction of travel, add a indicator ( a circle, or a smaller copy of the indicator we just copied, just bigger than the mouse's crosshairs, so they look right when they all line up) to both the screen and the radar.
And lastly, a faint outline on the radar showing your current screens "field of view" (fov). This outline would change size when you hit your zoom button (the "I" key).
Add options for each indicator for off, screen only, radar only, radar and screen, and fov (jumps to radar when it falls outside your fov).
edit: should we make it so that ion storms blank your screen, so that you have to "fly by radar"?
no one likes my ideas?
I like your ideas, right up to where you suggest storms should blank out the screen.
Storms are pretty, leave them in, but why can't it do stuff with the radar? Make it less reliable, or enven plain wrong?
The engine might not support it, but what about "static" on the radar displays, and maybe even disrupt targeting?
Storms are pretty, leave them in, but why can't it do stuff with the radar? Make it less reliable, or enven plain wrong?
The engine might not support it, but what about "static" on the radar displays, and maybe even disrupt targeting?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly..
Are you saying lock the radar screens to the direction the ship is facing?
That would make sense..
Are you saying lock the radar screens to the direction the ship is facing?
That would make sense..
netherby? did you log into the game and fly around with mlook mode turned on?
Normally, it wouldn't matter what direction you were flying in, in comparison to your environment, because going left would take you left, and going right would take you right, regardless of your current velocity. In VO, that is not the case. If you are drifting right at your "maximum speed", then accelerating in that direction does you no good. As I often claim, when you crash into a solid object, you often fly off in a very unintuitive manner, and lose your orientation. I sometimes use this tactic in Deneb against backrollers, who are so used to flying in patterns. To get back on point, here would be *my* ideal solution, if you choose to like it.
A circle, which size of course can be set, is placed around the center of your screen. Another, colored circle would gradually increase in size in accordance with your current speed. At 0 m/s, it would be the size of a pixel. At your maximum speed, it would entirely fill up the original circle. The color would correspond with the direction you were headed in. So, if 0 degrees meant traveling directly up, the color would be yellow. 60 Degrees, Green, 120 Degrees, Blue, 180 Degrees, Purple, etc. Shade would indicate forward/backward momentum. Going straight backwards, for example, would cause the circle to be pure black.
Or, using a similar method, a circle is shown on your screen. As your speed increases, so does the radius of the circle. In addition, a single line extending from the center of the circle indicates direction. So, you could tell that you're moving forward very fast, because the circle would be large, but the line would would be the size of a point. Likewise, you could see that your traveling downwards at your maximum speed because the circle would be at it's largest, and the line would extend to the end of that circle. Color, or something could be used to indicate whether one's traveling forwards, or backwards, because otherwise there would be no difference between traveling forward at a speed, or backwards at that speed.
You could definitely combine both methods, maybe using the second method with the line being colored as in the first method, just for good measure. And, if the way maximum speeds were changed in the future, the circles could still be used effectively. The original circle in the both methods would simply be set to a certain value. Perhaps you could have a "template circle" at each increment of 5 m/s.
A circle, which size of course can be set, is placed around the center of your screen. Another, colored circle would gradually increase in size in accordance with your current speed. At 0 m/s, it would be the size of a pixel. At your maximum speed, it would entirely fill up the original circle. The color would correspond with the direction you were headed in. So, if 0 degrees meant traveling directly up, the color would be yellow. 60 Degrees, Green, 120 Degrees, Blue, 180 Degrees, Purple, etc. Shade would indicate forward/backward momentum. Going straight backwards, for example, would cause the circle to be pure black.
Or, using a similar method, a circle is shown on your screen. As your speed increases, so does the radius of the circle. In addition, a single line extending from the center of the circle indicates direction. So, you could tell that you're moving forward very fast, because the circle would be large, but the line would would be the size of a point. Likewise, you could see that your traveling downwards at your maximum speed because the circle would be at it's largest, and the line would extend to the end of that circle. Color, or something could be used to indicate whether one's traveling forwards, or backwards, because otherwise there would be no difference between traveling forward at a speed, or backwards at that speed.
You could definitely combine both methods, maybe using the second method with the line being colored as in the first method, just for good measure. And, if the way maximum speeds were changed in the future, the circles could still be used effectively. The original circle in the both methods would simply be set to a certain value. Perhaps you could have a "template circle" at each increment of 5 m/s.
not having the patience to read the entire thread ive decided to repost something i posted in a similar thread.
I have a possible suggestion for indicating the direction your traveling and the speed that should be relitivley simple to impliment. Have as part of the hud what appear to be small blue dots when your stationary but they streak when you move, the faster you move the longer they are. this would basically give you a headless arrow showing wich direction your going and roughley how fast. kinda like adding mouse trails the the space junk and making it bright blue and rather small.
I have a possible suggestion for indicating the direction your traveling and the speed that should be relitivley simple to impliment. Have as part of the hud what appear to be small blue dots when your stationary but they streak when you move, the faster you move the longer they are. this would basically give you a headless arrow showing wich direction your going and roughley how fast. kinda like adding mouse trails the the space junk and making it bright blue and rather small.
I will restate my two major points.
a) we already have a speed indicator.
b) the current radar already shows the direction of things, and just needs an indicator added showing your direction of travel.
a) we already have a speed indicator.
b) the current radar already shows the direction of things, and just needs an indicator added showing your direction of travel.
First i think that this feature is so small, simple and useful that it may be implemented...
Returning to the first post of this topic, i totally agree, the direction indicator and its opposite should be there (only showing in physics mode)
about its design maybe same symbol blue forward, red backward. It can be a x cross or a transparent dot, or a pale circle...
I like the physics mode very much and use it all the time, (docking is a lot of fun -worth the game-) and there is only one situation where i am forced to use the space bar to initialise : picking up loots.
if i had this indicator, then instead of "feeling" motion, this would help me measure it on screen, then ajust my xyz with keyboard.
I also think that anything but a hud display at the right place in main view whould be no help at all (jauges, vector shere etc.) trash all that.
This feature must make sense, be USEABLE, or not at all.
this feature would be required in my idea of "no speed limit, just acceleration/mass rate limits" like in real space.
i am also fond of the fov display on radar.
And yes -this should be optionnal,
and yes -this should only show in physics mode.
Returning to the first post of this topic, i totally agree, the direction indicator and its opposite should be there (only showing in physics mode)
about its design maybe same symbol blue forward, red backward. It can be a x cross or a transparent dot, or a pale circle...
I like the physics mode very much and use it all the time, (docking is a lot of fun -worth the game-) and there is only one situation where i am forced to use the space bar to initialise : picking up loots.
if i had this indicator, then instead of "feeling" motion, this would help me measure it on screen, then ajust my xyz with keyboard.
I also think that anything but a hud display at the right place in main view whould be no help at all (jauges, vector shere etc.) trash all that.
This feature must make sense, be USEABLE, or not at all.
this feature would be required in my idea of "no speed limit, just acceleration/mass rate limits" like in real space.
i am also fond of the fov display on radar.
And yes -this should be optionnal,
and yes -this should only show in physics mode.
This is the first thing I thought when I used the Physics Mode. I used to play Elite II a lot and it had a simple circle in the HUD showing your direction of travel. It's such a simple thing, but so useful...
BTW, first post. Just tried the game and like it quite a lot...
BTW, first post. Just tried the game and like it quite a lot...
EVIL NECROMANCY! OVER AND OVER AGAIIN! EVIL GET BEHIND ME!
If you only fly in Flight Assist mode, than a velocity vector in the HUD that indicates actual direction of travel works (and is used in modern combat HUDs). Since we also need a solution that works in Physics Mode, I propose a simple solution based on the fact that you only need to track three axis: forward/reverse, up/down, and left/right.
Place a small dot in the HUD, probably in the lower-middle section of the HUD itself (say just above the distance indicator). Have a short line project from the dot to indicate velocity in the up/down and left-right plane. Something like this (excuse the crude ASCII graphics):
Up
|
O
Right
O -
Down
O
|
Left
- O
Up-Left
\
O
You get the idea...
The length of the line would be directly related to the velocity in the indicated direction. This line could be probably be restricted to the eight major cardinal directions without a major loss of accuracy. Or the line could be free to rotate 360 degrees around the dot.
Light the dot green when traveling forward, light it red for reverse. (Speed is already indicated in the Tactical Display of the HUD so no need for more information than that.)
A velocity vector indicator like this tells me everything I need to know at a glance without any clutter. This should be an optional part of the HUD, however, as not everyone will find it useful or necessary.
Place a small dot in the HUD, probably in the lower-middle section of the HUD itself (say just above the distance indicator). Have a short line project from the dot to indicate velocity in the up/down and left-right plane. Something like this (excuse the crude ASCII graphics):
Up
|
O
Right
O -
Down
O
|
Left
- O
Up-Left
\
O
You get the idea...
The length of the line would be directly related to the velocity in the indicated direction. This line could be probably be restricted to the eight major cardinal directions without a major loss of accuracy. Or the line could be free to rotate 360 degrees around the dot.
Light the dot green when traveling forward, light it red for reverse. (Speed is already indicated in the Tactical Display of the HUD so no need for more information than that.)
A velocity vector indicator like this tells me everything I need to know at a glance without any clutter. This should be an optional part of the HUD, however, as not everyone will find it useful or necessary.