Nope. I don't care how much cash you have, you're not getting to legally purchase current-tech military combat craft as a third party trader dog.

They can be available through Corvus at some horrendous markup.

However they are available, they should be. Being a UIT shouldn't restrict the types of ships you get. Being that UIT is the best traders' nation, they should be able to acquire all ships. But for serco and itani, they should be able to acquire the opposing nation's ship through the UIT at even more than what the UIT buy at.

UIT, how to get a nation specific ship:

> Complete certain standing level with nation.
> Complete some kind of training mission with the new ship and a member of the other nation's approval.
> Purchase from nation in a limited number, 10 per mission let's just say.
> Pay 100,000cr. or more for each ship.

Itani/Serco, how to get a nation specific ship:

> Complete certain standing level with both nations.
> Complete some kind of training mission with the new ship and a with a member of UIT's approval.
> Complete a big trade mission without pay for the UIT.
> Purchase from UIT in a limited number, 10 per both missions completed.
> Buy at marked up price of UIT's purchase price for nation specific ships.

Let me know if this is balanced enough, or needs more balancing...

Hmmm. Let me put this in the RL context Jim Kirk.
You are suggesting that US Army opens its arsenal of high tech weapons and craft to free market so, for instance, Korea or China can buy anything they like and then use it against USA?

I'm still fine with UIT buying Promethei or Valks so long as they align themselves with one nation and hated by the other.... (Plus Lexicon's suggestion. No stockpiles!)

Guys, there is already NO benifit to playing a UIT character. We can't get N3s, have no BP or BS missions available to us. The only thing we've got going for us is a default good standing with all three nations. Further restricting UIT from buy military ships would take a way the last reason to play a UIT character.

The only way that works is if you balance it by not allowing Serco and Itani to buy faction specific ships and weapons. If you want ot be nation only you have to go all the way.

Well I am not sure I agree with that. I think UIT should be able to get either ship (not both). But maybe for UIT players the reuirement is not Amired/Hated, but Admired/ (Less than Admired).

That way it would let the UIT player continue trading where ever he wanted, but still limit his choice. Though this would require some sort of "Karma Lock".

Also for Serco and Itanis (only), I would suggest that the standing with one nation depends on your standing with the other. In a limiting way (so for example if you reach admired with Itani your standing with Serco will hit Hated. If then you go to Serco space kill bots for 10 hours reach liked with Serco you Itani standing will have dropped to dislike or worse).

That would let people be able to "defect" to the other nation, but still not let them play both teams.

Finally I am against the non-stockpiling rules. But a simple solution would be that Proms and Vlaks can only be repaired in nation space, or neutral space (So you can't repair the Prom in Itani space). But in Neutral Space the repairs should cost exorbitant costs (say present costs x1000?).

This would force the Valks and Proms to be useful mostly in BS and BP. And give a tradewise edge to UIT, who would sell more of it's ships to players in grey (since they are repairable at normal cost everywhere). This would only become uselful after dynamic economy of course.

It just doesn't make sense that a UIT trader who has ties with both nations (Itani and Serco) would earn so much trust as to get their most effective equipment. You can talk all you want, but it's not logical.

Besides, as I have stated already, the UIT do not have that bad a starting position, since they have good or neutral standing with quite a few factions, are close to grey space, closer than any other nation.

The fact that there are usually as many UIT as Serco and Itani players combined should further show that the UIT do not get that bad a deal. Not all of them fly Promethei or Valkyries, either.

Well, they are closer to the capitol of grey space (Sedina).

New players may pick UIT more because they are unsure which side to take. It's not at war with anyone, so maybe it's the safest (what they're thinking). So that might be why there are so many. They level up their char, then all of a sudden, they play all the time, and aren't new anymore. Then you have 40UIT online, 14 Serco online and 25 Itani online.

I have no problem whatsoever with the UIT purchasing Itani or Serco nation-specific ships as long as they are meet the same requirement, admired by one and hated by the other. The entire concept of being able to purchase a IDF Valk to fight Itani, or a SCP to fight Serco is preposterous.

That is true, however most people get an IBG or Orion Rev C anyway, it doesn't really matter. I don't see many Proms or Valks anymore anyway.

i see lots of proms and valks.
can't remember the last time i saw a uit td though

The TD Warthog became useless when the turbo speeds were cut. It's now just a more expensive version of the Warthog MkIV with less thrust and less cargo space. The extra .1Nm of spin torque and 300kg less mass doesn't help much in the long run, it's still just a clone of the MkIV. The TD needs something to make it unique enough to be used.

I say add 1 torque :D then it would become a VERY interesting machine

From my myriad experiments with different engines in different ships, I don't think the spin torque number means what we think it means. It seems to mean resistence to rotation. There is another setting in the actual engine somewhere that also governs it's rotation speed. It also seems that the mass distribution of a ship goes at least partially with it's engine, as putting a Moth engine on a light ship still turns like a dog, a vice versus. IMHO that number should just be removed, as it's mostly meaningless for comparing ships of different sizes and engines.

As has been said, the UIT is a trading nation. Therefore they have decent access to combat ships, but not exceptional. One problem is that they should have better access to trade ships/benefits when trading, but they don't. The Serco and Itani have the more top end military vessels. I don't believe they would sell them to the UIT. But I also believe that if you choose to play a UIT, hence being a part of a trading nation, you should not need to have access to the top end combat vessels anyway. You should have better trading vessels or other benefits, but that's a topic for another thread. The UIT do need some better combat vessel though, I agree the TD needs to be buffed. But, that's yet another topic for another thread.

i want to be rasist. outrightly.

i mean, i want to kramer the issue (and with that i invent a new verb).

valks are for itani.
mauds are for uit.
proms are for sissies.

and _all_ require admired within their own nation to get their nation-only ship.

end of story.

screw faction (current faction sucks, everyone admits it, devs included).

Perhaps your nation affiliation should be automatic based on your standing? If I have serco admired and Itani hated, I turn red. If I have both admired and UIT, I turn yellow, and lose my access to both nations combat vessels, but get trade benifits. If I am hated by more than two, I turn grey, but get some corvus benifit.

I think that any model that forces your choice of nation to permanently affect your gameplay/availability of stuff is counter-productive to the kind of game this is. The devs have said before their goal is open ended gameplay without a set class. Perhaps choice of nation should be just as fluid, and the nation you start with is merely that, the place you start. It would also open up other missions, say to get Itani citizenship or get serco implants and prove yourself to the serco nation or something.

I think you can offer benifits without forcing permanent limits.

Valk = Itani admire, Serco dislike
Prom = Serco admire, Itani dislike
UIT maud (or a new better trade ship, super moth?) = UIT admire, itani admire, serco admire (they are after all traders).

This way the UIT still can't buy the valk/prom if they choose to go the trading route. Although I think a new ship would be required, one that is only available in UIT space (not the other lesser UIT factions). A UIT ship that doesn't have a varient at corvus, or XangXi, etc....

Dear UITs, money cant buy everything.
Make a blue or red alt if you want itani or serco military hardware.

Yeah but, that's my point isn't it? The whole idea of this game is to not force people to choose a single role. I don't have to play just a "mage" or just a "warior", I can, just like in real life, change carreers basically any time I want.

PS Money CAN buy everything.