Forums » Suggestions
After a roid heats to a certain temperature, gases are released, damaging your ship slightly and pushing you away slightly each time gases are released. This will reduce AFK mining considerably, and just make more incentive to find more roids instead of using the same ones over and over repeatedly. Finding roids should be a bigger part of mining.
If that doesn't work, just make the roids glow pretty colors when they're hot...
If that doesn't work, just make the roids glow pretty colors when they're hot...
I already suggested this (well, something very similar to this) once. Nobody liked the idea...
Yea, well I like it!
I guess people really just do not care about mining because, lets be honest, it's boring as hell!
New things, anything new, on mining would be an improvement. I figured changing how you interact with the roids would be a good approach. You can't change yourself, you can't change the economy (not yet anyway), you can't change the roids themselves (that would be too hard), but you can change the way the roids react to certain temperatures (even if it's just randomly).
I guess people really just do not care about mining because, lets be honest, it's boring as hell!
New things, anything new, on mining would be an improvement. I figured changing how you interact with the roids would be a good approach. You can't change yourself, you can't change the economy (not yet anyway), you can't change the roids themselves (that would be too hard), but you can change the way the roids react to certain temperatures (even if it's just randomly).
That would make sectors full of heated roids entertaining. ;)
I like it, too. I suggested that roids become liquid with high temperature, but that would probably put too much strain on the server (people flying through it and all).
That said, the idea that heated roids damage the ships makes sense and could very well be implemented as I see it; even randomly, so that it becomes more of an activity and less of a nuisance.
That said, the idea that heated roids damage the ships makes sense and could very well be implemented as I see it; even randomly, so that it becomes more of an activity and less of a nuisance.
yes
Roids would have to be eated to at least 500K or so to be of any dnger to a shp. Probably a few 100k more even.
Yes, 500K is a good number. The randomness of the explosions (or hot gas releases from the roid) as the K further progresses upwards starts to get more and more frequent as time goes on. If you don't want to mine after a certain temperature you're good because the roid probably blew you out into the outer part of the sector 18,000m away and climbing. You're going only 1m/s, but if you leave it afk, time adds up regardless of what you're doing (sleeping).
It's just like if you forget to brake fully and start mining then come back to your computer to find yourself 20,000m away from the entire sector and can't see anything on your screen besides stars, same thing but it always happens if you don't keep an eye on your ship.
We could have events of this nature. Who can get their roid the hottest without dying? Winner gets 500,000 credits. Roids are pre-heated to exactly 1000K to lessen the time the event takes, because if they started from 10K it would take freaking forever.
It's just like if you forget to brake fully and start mining then come back to your computer to find yourself 20,000m away from the entire sector and can't see anything on your screen besides stars, same thing but it always happens if you don't keep an eye on your ship.
We could have events of this nature. Who can get their roid the hottest without dying? Winner gets 500,000 credits. Roids are pre-heated to exactly 1000K to lessen the time the event takes, because if they started from 10K it would take freaking forever.
I agree mining is boring as hell (unless you do it in a bot sector) but I don't think I like this idea. Honestly, how many people heat up a roid to a half million Kelvin? At that point the roid would be a ball of glowing plasma, but all this would do is discourage AFK mining; it wouldn't make mining an "active" activity. There ought to be some way to actively engage the miner as he/she mines in an entertaining manner.
This is somewhat tangential I know, but what about if after the roid reaches a certain temperature, it begins to emit gas that is collectable with the right equipment? Each mineral type mined would accompany a gas type, and certain combinations would produce certain gas widgets. It becomes like a miniature puzzle game:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/14684
Add a positive incentive to not AFK mine rather than a negative incentive. Just a thought.
This is somewhat tangential I know, but what about if after the roid reaches a certain temperature, it begins to emit gas that is collectable with the right equipment? Each mineral type mined would accompany a gas type, and certain combinations would produce certain gas widgets. It becomes like a miniature puzzle game:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/14684
Add a positive incentive to not AFK mine rather than a negative incentive. Just a thought.
I've done my fair share of AFK mining.
Having "hot gases" escape is realistic, assuming that you're melting the asteroid and sucking up the vapors anyway. That's what our mining beams do, right?
I understand that, for game mechanics, we can't have roids that break down into smaller roids, otherwise we'll have to keep track of exponentially larger number of tiny objects that are in-sector. And, then we'd need to implement some "relative mass" collision system to handle the myriad of small floating particles. (can't have a baseball-sized asteroid particle be able to stop your ship dead in its tracks, now can we?)
Anyway, I expect that the asteroid would expand when heated, and yes, gases would issue out, but I think they'd do so explosively, and not gently. A la Mt. St. Helens. It would be neato to put in a percentage chance of an explosive fissure forming and damaging you, sure.
Of course, lots of things would be neat in this game, and haven't been done due to time constraints. So... I think this falls into that category.
Having "hot gases" escape is realistic, assuming that you're melting the asteroid and sucking up the vapors anyway. That's what our mining beams do, right?
I understand that, for game mechanics, we can't have roids that break down into smaller roids, otherwise we'll have to keep track of exponentially larger number of tiny objects that are in-sector. And, then we'd need to implement some "relative mass" collision system to handle the myriad of small floating particles. (can't have a baseball-sized asteroid particle be able to stop your ship dead in its tracks, now can we?)
Anyway, I expect that the asteroid would expand when heated, and yes, gases would issue out, but I think they'd do so explosively, and not gently. A la Mt. St. Helens. It would be neato to put in a percentage chance of an explosive fissure forming and damaging you, sure.
Of course, lots of things would be neat in this game, and haven't been done due to time constraints. So... I think this falls into that category.
Who said anything about half a million K? 273.23K is the temperature at wich ice melts, on earth at sea level that is ;).
Actually it is an interesting question... at which temp would an ice cristal start becoming unstable? What about a ferric roid?
Actually it is an interesting question... at which temp would an ice cristal start becoming unstable? What about a ferric roid?
what about if hot roids damaged your mining equipment and the yield would slowly become less and less with damaged equipment. You could bring to a station to have your equipment repaired (a button similar to ship repair) After it hits a certain damage percent like below 1% then the equipment refuses to work at all.
I'm all for having appropriate and realistic melting points for asteroids. For example, if the asteroid is 100% Ice, then it becomes a floating ball of water at 273K.
(BTW, these asteroids should never be at 0K, they should hover at around 10 K or so, right?)
If an asteroid is 50% Ferric and 50% Carbonic, then the Ferric will melt at 1811 K, meaning there is no more chance of extracting any more Ferric from this asteroid. The carbon will "melt" (sublime, actually) at around 4500 K, and once that happens, nothing will be extractable from that asteroid until it cools down.
When do heliocene and pyronic melt? I dunno, since these are made-up it doesn't really matter. Ironically, if the melting point is lower, they will be worth more because they will be difficult to extract en-masse.
This seems to be a decent model, especially if the asteroids don't break up or change. It would be nice to have the surface texture/color change, and have some outgassing and perhaps an inner glow as they reach the "critical" state. But, I don't know if it's possible for the game to do that. I know that when our ships are damaged the fire and smoke and sparking are caused by "particle emitters" that ramp up when you're damaged. Whether you can have different "particle emitters" that work with asteroids, well, that's another question.
The damage, if any, should be light from a very hot asteroid. I think a more appropriate action would be a very mild concussion-mine like effect. A gentle constant repulsive effect / push away from the asteroid.
(BTW, these asteroids should never be at 0K, they should hover at around 10 K or so, right?)
If an asteroid is 50% Ferric and 50% Carbonic, then the Ferric will melt at 1811 K, meaning there is no more chance of extracting any more Ferric from this asteroid. The carbon will "melt" (sublime, actually) at around 4500 K, and once that happens, nothing will be extractable from that asteroid until it cools down.
When do heliocene and pyronic melt? I dunno, since these are made-up it doesn't really matter. Ironically, if the melting point is lower, they will be worth more because they will be difficult to extract en-masse.
This seems to be a decent model, especially if the asteroids don't break up or change. It would be nice to have the surface texture/color change, and have some outgassing and perhaps an inner glow as they reach the "critical" state. But, I don't know if it's possible for the game to do that. I know that when our ships are damaged the fire and smoke and sparking are caused by "particle emitters" that ramp up when you're damaged. Whether you can have different "particle emitters" that work with asteroids, well, that's another question.
The damage, if any, should be light from a very hot asteroid. I think a more appropriate action would be a very mild concussion-mine like effect. A gentle constant repulsive effect / push away from the asteroid.
Lexicon, most of the stuff you said is wrong since those are the states at 1 atm, not 0 atm :D
Right. Yah Yah OK, so go do the calculations for 0 atm and get back to me, OK wiseass? :)
To nitpick: Also, if something is already molten, it cannot sublime anymore, since from liquid, it can go either way. I don't know how you call it when you turn it into plasma, but I'm pretty sure it's not 'sublime'.
Maybe I'll do the math for 0 Pa. Soon™.
Maybe I'll do the math for 0 Pa. Soon™.
It shouldn't change the shape of the roid though. I mean it should, but realistically it might be too much for 40 roids with rippling wateresk effects in a sector. Just make them glow or some kind of indication that they are hot!
Let's revisit what Lexicon mentioned about melting points of ore. If a certain 'roid has a very small percentage of, say denic ore with a high melting point, but is mixed with say, 99% aquean ore, then it seems the natural strategy would be to heat it up to 273K, and then mine the Denic ore for 100% efficiency. Maybe make it dynamic, so that at 136.5K the aquean ore percentage drops down to 50? Either way it would be annoying to mine at such heats, so perhaps a new types of mining beams could be introduced that would have different ranges for maximum efficiency, maybe set the ranges at a station. Something like the higher heat it is, the smaller the range becomes. So at the very high temperatures, it'd be worth it to pack several beams with overlapping ranges. Something to give high level miners, anyways. Not to mention a beam specifically designed for quick heating, and wouldn't force miners to press the 'j' key every minute.
Back to the example, after heating the 'roid in question, I use my special Denic Mining Beam with the optimum range of 300K until the 'roid hits 327K. Then I switch over to the second Denic Mining Beam and finish mining it a further 42K. By then my cargo hold is full, and I'm about to be a rich happy miner. In this case mining would truly become it's own area of expertise, involving prospecting for excellent 'roids, taking the time to melt off the iron, timing when a 'roid has cooled enough to become ripe, and all sorts of little tricks that could let the individual miner's skill really shine through and beat out a potential Wal-mart of a mining conglamorate.
Back to the example, after heating the 'roid in question, I use my special Denic Mining Beam with the optimum range of 300K until the 'roid hits 327K. Then I switch over to the second Denic Mining Beam and finish mining it a further 42K. By then my cargo hold is full, and I'm about to be a rich happy miner. In this case mining would truly become it's own area of expertise, involving prospecting for excellent 'roids, taking the time to melt off the iron, timing when a 'roid has cooled enough to become ripe, and all sorts of little tricks that could let the individual miner's skill really shine through and beat out a potential Wal-mart of a mining conglamorate.
Yea, like SuperMegaMynt said, more dynamics are needed to make mining more interesting... Anything, even if it's bad (like I suggested by the roids heating releasing gases and pushing the miner away, possibly putting him out of range to lose a load;; OR GOOD like what megamynt said, It'd be nice to have "Mining Strategies" that would probably become a tutorial to new miners.
VO needs more mining beams, for very very specific uses, and different roid dynamics (which makes roids percentages change at different temperatures.
Maybe a new scanner should come out showing concentrations of the ore within the asteroid. You know, like a kind of random mini-game. If you do the mini-game right and heat up (and remove) the ore that is in the way of the good ore, you will get a higher percentage of good ore. This way you can mine for a specific ore in a roid that you want, instead of using the percentage system. The percentage system was easy to implement, but it isn't much fun. Why can't we make mining into a game (or if not a game) a strategy of using different beams at different temps. Maybe a certain ore changes percentages for the higher when you mine the crap out of it.
Ex: Maybe there is a 1% heliocene roid with 99% Carbonic. If you mine for 3 hours, and heat it up to 4,000K the carbonic could lower % to like 50. Giving people that mine for much longer periods of time some kind of reward, rather than nothing.
VO needs more mining beams, for very very specific uses, and different roid dynamics (which makes roids percentages change at different temperatures.
Maybe a new scanner should come out showing concentrations of the ore within the asteroid. You know, like a kind of random mini-game. If you do the mini-game right and heat up (and remove) the ore that is in the way of the good ore, you will get a higher percentage of good ore. This way you can mine for a specific ore in a roid that you want, instead of using the percentage system. The percentage system was easy to implement, but it isn't much fun. Why can't we make mining into a game (or if not a game) a strategy of using different beams at different temps. Maybe a certain ore changes percentages for the higher when you mine the crap out of it.
Ex: Maybe there is a 1% heliocene roid with 99% Carbonic. If you mine for 3 hours, and heat it up to 4,000K the carbonic could lower % to like 50. Giving people that mine for much longer periods of time some kind of reward, rather than nothing.
I don't think I was clear in that last post, but I actually have a very specific idea about how to improve mining.
Right now, all 'roids give ore the most efficiently at the same temperature - 10K
Right now, all mining beams mine ore efficiently at the same temperature - 10K
Right now, all mining beams heat asteroids very very slowly.
By simply countering the above statements, a plethora of strategy becomes available to miners.
Certain beams mine can be set to mine certain ores at certain temperatures faster.
Certain 'roids cool down at certain temperatures faster.
Certain beams heat certain 'roids faster.
Now there's things you could never do before, and the profession of mining becomes one of making decisions to maximize profit. Do you waste time melting out all the Carbon so you can get to the sweet Xithricate center? Or do you just mine as it is, and throw away the Carbon? Oh, too bad, Carbon melts at 4000K, but the highest you can set your Xithricate mining beam is to mine at 3500K. Maybe you can use a Heliocene mining beam at 4000K and still get a decent rate.
Screw minigames!
Right now, all 'roids give ore the most efficiently at the same temperature - 10K
Right now, all mining beams mine ore efficiently at the same temperature - 10K
Right now, all mining beams heat asteroids very very slowly.
By simply countering the above statements, a plethora of strategy becomes available to miners.
Certain beams mine can be set to mine certain ores at certain temperatures faster.
Certain 'roids cool down at certain temperatures faster.
Certain beams heat certain 'roids faster.
Now there's things you could never do before, and the profession of mining becomes one of making decisions to maximize profit. Do you waste time melting out all the Carbon so you can get to the sweet Xithricate center? Or do you just mine as it is, and throw away the Carbon? Oh, too bad, Carbon melts at 4000K, but the highest you can set your Xithricate mining beam is to mine at 3500K. Maybe you can use a Heliocene mining beam at 4000K and still get a decent rate.
Screw minigames!