Forums » Suggestions
Hi,
can the HUD be changed so that:
+ the distance to the targe is displayed above the crosshair,
+ the hull damage is always displayed at the bottom of the screen between the radars and
+ that you can see where your ship actually moves to?
As to the last, there could be a small system of coordinates showing the vetcor of the ship in terms of percentage of full speed on each of the three axisī. Maybe thereīs even some better way to show it. I think it could greatly ease free flight as well as targeting, and those who donīt like just leave it turned off. If that works, maybe add two other displays, one to display the target movement and another to display your movement relative to your target.
As to the first, I donīt find it all that helpful to display the distance to the closest large object below the crosshair. Distance to target could be displayed there instead; just leave the bar displaying large-object distance, but turn it green once the distance is 3000m and display that in numbers in the upper right corner. In any case, distance to target is _way_ more important than large-object distance.
As to the second, when you join a group, the state of your hull canīt be seen accurately, thus displaying it always on the bottom would be nice. Bottom/more centered position is important because you can keep an eye on it much better there.
can the HUD be changed so that:
+ the distance to the targe is displayed above the crosshair,
+ the hull damage is always displayed at the bottom of the screen between the radars and
+ that you can see where your ship actually moves to?
As to the last, there could be a small system of coordinates showing the vetcor of the ship in terms of percentage of full speed on each of the three axisī. Maybe thereīs even some better way to show it. I think it could greatly ease free flight as well as targeting, and those who donīt like just leave it turned off. If that works, maybe add two other displays, one to display the target movement and another to display your movement relative to your target.
As to the first, I donīt find it all that helpful to display the distance to the closest large object below the crosshair. Distance to target could be displayed there instead; just leave the bar displaying large-object distance, but turn it green once the distance is 3000m and display that in numbers in the upper right corner. In any case, distance to target is _way_ more important than large-object distance.
As to the second, when you join a group, the state of your hull canīt be seen accurately, thus displaying it always on the bottom would be nice. Bottom/more centered position is important because you can keep an eye on it much better there.
1 and 2 will be able top be done by each user when lua is opened up. 3 is a No no, because that requires coordinates and corrdinates leads to bots, macros and scripts. THey did that before and that's what happened. hence why /displayshippos doesn't work anymore.
Someone needs to start a tally of how many times this has ben suggested... I'm sure it's in the double digits by now.
#3 wouldn't allow for bot creation, as it is a display of your ship's current movement vector, possibly broken down into XYZ components, not position (if I understand the suggestion properly). No harm in that, though making it useful in combat is probably a bit tougher, as you would need to be able to "read" it without having to consciously pay attention to it. A set of meters to go with the throttle/speed meter could work, but then that's a lot of HUD clutter.
#3 is the reason for space junk. It's a subtle cue but it does tell you which way you're going.
the z component of your vector is called speed.
I suggested in another thread that the x/y components be shown on the radar (which is already designed to display relative x/y vector).
I suggested in another thread that the x/y components be shown on the radar (which is already designed to display relative x/y vector).
ummmm. no........
x, y, and z are all the required coordinates in a 3 dimentional scape.
speed has nothing to do with that.... try that one again trs.
x, y, and z are all the required coordinates in a 3 dimentional scape.
speed has nothing to do with that.... try that one again trs.
a vector, has a magnitude and a direction. the speed is already an indication of magnitude, and the radar could show the direction (the radar already shows the directions of nearby objects).
It's been a while since I took a physics or math course, but if I recall, a vector in 3d-space is notated as (x,y,z, and whatever the variable for magnitude was... t?). x,y,z being the direction and the magnitude variable being... well, the magnitude. I think, at least.
I dunno, I would think that'd be absolutely nasty to try to interpret. "Um, so I'm traveling in (2,6,23.5,55)... So that's two units to my right, six units to the front, which gives me an angle of... uh... 18.4 degrees to the right, and 23.5 units up, which gives me-" *boom*
Giving the ship's direction of travel in relation to where the ship is pointing as a set of angles (angle to the left or right of center, and angle up and down) might be easier to interpret, but I don't know how useful that'd be. Might as well have a 3d arrow in the middle of the screen that points in the direction that you're going.
But as a1k0n said, that's what the space junk is for.
I dunno, I would think that'd be absolutely nasty to try to interpret. "Um, so I'm traveling in (2,6,23.5,55)... So that's two units to my right, six units to the front, which gives me an angle of... uh... 18.4 degrees to the right, and 23.5 units up, which gives me-" *boom*
Giving the ship's direction of travel in relation to where the ship is pointing as a set of angles (angle to the left or right of center, and angle up and down) might be easier to interpret, but I don't know how useful that'd be. Might as well have a 3d arrow in the middle of the screen that points in the direction that you're going.
But as a1k0n said, that's what the space junk is for.
All semantics aside, the guy wants to see what direction his ship is going. The radar is designed to show the direction of things (roids, ships, stations...).
All that is needed is to add an indicator to the radar for your ships direction of travel.
All that is needed is to add an indicator to the radar for your ships direction of travel.
Yes, I just want to see where the ship moves to. The question is how that can be achieved ...
It would help to turn off autotargeting. But since the bullets inherit the vector of the ship and at the same time you cannot see where it moves to, it tends to be worse without autotargeting. With autotargeting, the hitrate is maybe 1 in 10 depleted heavy cells.
Thick space junk would help, of course. An arrow pointing might also, but you would have also have to know the speed. There also could be drawn a point in space indicating where you move to, but thatīs not always visible and doesnīt tell you the speed, either.
The radar needs to be changed. It has a fixed range of appartently 2.5k or 3k. Thatīs not much for īnormal flightī, but too much for combat.
In combat, you only see some red dots around, but you canīt tell how far away they are. But since the ships lack shields, itīs all the more important to be able to see if another attacker sneaks at you while your fighting one.
Being able to switch the radar to smaller ranges (like 300, 500, 800 and 1000) would help.
Besides, I greatly prefer Elite style radar. You can actually see something on that :) The WC style flattens things too much, so we should have both types available.
But I guess that such changes to the radar have already been suggested many times?
Hm, I donīt mean to display the vector on the axisī in numbers. Just a green bar in the length according to the percentage of full speed of the current movement. The axisī would not turn but be aligned to the ship. Negative movement on an axis would have a red bar instead of a green one. If you like to have an arrow, display the arrow within the axisī to show the overall vector.
And I donīt say itīs easy to read, but it can be learned. Thick debris may be easier, though.
Maybe the amount of debris should be configurable?
It would help to turn off autotargeting. But since the bullets inherit the vector of the ship and at the same time you cannot see where it moves to, it tends to be worse without autotargeting. With autotargeting, the hitrate is maybe 1 in 10 depleted heavy cells.
Thick space junk would help, of course. An arrow pointing might also, but you would have also have to know the speed. There also could be drawn a point in space indicating where you move to, but thatīs not always visible and doesnīt tell you the speed, either.
The radar needs to be changed. It has a fixed range of appartently 2.5k or 3k. Thatīs not much for īnormal flightī, but too much for combat.
In combat, you only see some red dots around, but you canīt tell how far away they are. But since the ships lack shields, itīs all the more important to be able to see if another attacker sneaks at you while your fighting one.
Being able to switch the radar to smaller ranges (like 300, 500, 800 and 1000) would help.
Besides, I greatly prefer Elite style radar. You can actually see something on that :) The WC style flattens things too much, so we should have both types available.
But I guess that such changes to the radar have already been suggested many times?
Hm, I donīt mean to display the vector on the axisī in numbers. Just a green bar in the length according to the percentage of full speed of the current movement. The axisī would not turn but be aligned to the ship. Negative movement on an axis would have a red bar instead of a green one. If you like to have an arrow, display the arrow within the axisī to show the overall vector.
And I donīt say itīs easy to read, but it can be learned. Thick debris may be easier, though.
Maybe the amount of debris should be configurable?
Well your speed is the number on the left powerbar on your hud.
Yes, so I can only see a speed, but it doesnīt tell me where I move to. It could be a rather slow speed for any direction (except opposing ones) when you consider a particular direction alone, and it were still full speed in total --- which tells me almost nothing except for that I move (in an unknown direction, but most of the time at full speed).
The problem is caused mostly by the speed capping. Slide left at full speed, then stop pressing the button and slide forward instead. You still move at full speed, but into which direction?
Slide into some different directions like when dodging, and you have no idea where you move to, no idea into which direction you move at what speed because you only see a total speed that tells you nothing.
Dock at a station with FA off, you have to brake every so often or you will crash into the docking bay. You canīt tell how fast you move into one direction though the station gives you a good hint, and you canīt easily stop moving into a particular direction alone because you tend to start moving in the opposite direction though you donīt want do.
Having seperate brake keys for each direction would be a lot of keys to press ...
The problem is caused mostly by the speed capping. Slide left at full speed, then stop pressing the button and slide forward instead. You still move at full speed, but into which direction?
Slide into some different directions like when dodging, and you have no idea where you move to, no idea into which direction you move at what speed because you only see a total speed that tells you nothing.
Dock at a station with FA off, you have to brake every so often or you will crash into the docking bay. You canīt tell how fast you move into one direction though the station gives you a good hint, and you canīt easily stop moving into a particular direction alone because you tend to start moving in the opposite direction though you donīt want do.
Having seperate brake keys for each direction would be a lot of keys to press ...
It's really not that hard. It just takes a little practice. After a little while it became second nature for me. Practice turning and dodging around different sized roids.
Basically, your motion is ony important relative to other objects in space. So you can always just look at whatever your flying near to see how you're moving in relation to it, then adjust accordingly to go where you want in relation to that object. If you still can't maneuver properly, you just need practice.
Basically, your motion is ony important relative to other objects in space. So you can always just look at whatever your flying near to see how you're moving in relation to it, then adjust accordingly to go where you want in relation to that object. If you still can't maneuver properly, you just need practice.
"Basically, your motion is ony important relative to other objects in space."
I think that pretty much says it for me. I can easily understand my trajectory if I have an object to judge my relative movement against. If there's no nearby object, then I really don't have any need to know the fine details of my heading. When I'm driving my car I don't look at my speedometer while I am parking or making a lane change - I judge my speed and heading relative to other objects around me.
I'm not opposed to a trajectory indicator, I just don't think it's a priority. I ask that we be able toggle it off if/when it is added. I never use the debris anymore.
The radar is not optimal, but closer targets are brighter than distant ones. You learn to alert to bright red dots quickly. There is also a proximity sensor that can be set to chime for nearby ships.
I think that pretty much says it for me. I can easily understand my trajectory if I have an object to judge my relative movement against. If there's no nearby object, then I really don't have any need to know the fine details of my heading. When I'm driving my car I don't look at my speedometer while I am parking or making a lane change - I judge my speed and heading relative to other objects around me.
I'm not opposed to a trajectory indicator, I just don't think it's a priority. I ask that we be able toggle it off if/when it is added. I never use the debris anymore.
The radar is not optimal, but closer targets are brighter than distant ones. You learn to alert to bright red dots quickly. There is also a proximity sensor that can be set to chime for nearby ships.
Yea, I think then we're just talking about a matter of practice. VO provides a LOT of visual references for you to tell where you're going. On top of the "stationary debris" that whizzes by your screen when you move, there are also asteroids and stations that provide good motion information.
The speed cap actually simplifies things if you think about it. The game fudges quite a lot when it comes to your motion vector. If you're traveling left at full speed and then hit forwards, as the game adds forwards acceleration, it must reduce your sideways movement or else you will be travelling faster than the speed cap. Pretty soon, your sideways movement will be completely removed, and you will be travelling full speed forward.
In terms of docking without FA, I tend to not smash into things as long as I pay attention to my relative position in relation to the station, and especially my relative speed in relation to the station. I'll travel fairly quickly when approaching the station and then as I get close to the dock, I reduce my speed and make shorter, more precise control inputs.
If you think about it, FA is simply flying with your forward button permanently on, and if you make a translation input tangent to forward, as soon as you let off the button, you immediately make an input in the opposite direction to neutralize your movement.
But yea, I think that an arrow indicating your movement is pretty unnecessary. The space debris is pretty much all the information that I need, even in combat.
The speed cap actually simplifies things if you think about it. The game fudges quite a lot when it comes to your motion vector. If you're traveling left at full speed and then hit forwards, as the game adds forwards acceleration, it must reduce your sideways movement or else you will be travelling faster than the speed cap. Pretty soon, your sideways movement will be completely removed, and you will be travelling full speed forward.
In terms of docking without FA, I tend to not smash into things as long as I pay attention to my relative position in relation to the station, and especially my relative speed in relation to the station. I'll travel fairly quickly when approaching the station and then as I get close to the dock, I reduce my speed and make shorter, more precise control inputs.
If you think about it, FA is simply flying with your forward button permanently on, and if you make a translation input tangent to forward, as soon as you let off the button, you immediately make an input in the opposite direction to neutralize your movement.
But yea, I think that an arrow indicating your movement is pretty unnecessary. The space debris is pretty much all the information that I need, even in combat.
Thereīs not much space debris around. Asteroids and stations are not helpful as a reference in combat.
In combat, you are supposed to dodge. In combat, 99% of the time I canīt tell into which direction I currently move, and I wonīt be able to tell if I move at all if I wonīt see on the speed indicator that I probably do.
To dodge, I can only press buttons, but I never know in advance what their effect might be because I donīt know into which direction I move. The button I press may slow down the actual movement, make it faster or do nothing --- at least apparently nothing --- at all.
You can say that Iīm flying totally blind in combat.
In combat, you are supposed to dodge. In combat, 99% of the time I canīt tell into which direction I currently move, and I wonīt be able to tell if I move at all if I wonīt see on the speed indicator that I probably do.
To dodge, I can only press buttons, but I never know in advance what their effect might be because I donīt know into which direction I move. The button I press may slow down the actual movement, make it faster or do nothing --- at least apparently nothing --- at all.
You can say that Iīm flying totally blind in combat.
So, let's pretend for a second we have a little circle in addition to the current HUD. A point on this circle would indicate the direction that you're moving in coronally. Coupled with your current speed, you can use the information to get an accurate idea of where you're going in relation to simply holding position. On a side note, I think it'd be simplest, and best to stick this little HUD detail I've described on the nose of the ship, not the cursor, for all you mouse-look people.
Now, there are specifically two reasons why this addition would be effective.
1. Although I can practice my maneuvers with near perfect accuracy, there are times when things go awry in combat, (for example I get rammed) and I don't know who's going where for how many jellybeans. This deviates from reality, and therefor would benefit from a jimmy-riggin', because the model for movement in this game deviates from reality. See below.
2. To quote Whistler's quote, "Basically, your motion is only important relative to other objects in space." I don't believe that for a second. When focusing on a target in VO, there are always three points you have to bear in mind; You must concentrate on your movement, your target's movement, and the origin, or the point where movement is zero.
So, the classic example of confusion in this case, is one where you accidently fly your Corvus Vulturius into an asteroid while trying to dodge some pesky pirate's attack. You find yourself travelling at 66 m/s in an unknown direction, and you've gotta dodge fast! One direction will allow you to achieve maximum acceleration, that is, the direction away from your current movement. The other will quickly cap you at 75, and earn your ship a fresh Neutron colored paint job. The two others will allow for more acceleration, but still cap your speed earlier than you'd like or expect.
Manuevering in 3 dimensions is complicated especially with engines that only have two settings (Full blast and completely off, as opposed to dynamic settings), and far more complicated than we're used to dealing with in every day life. Heck, people have enough trouble dealing with only one dimension, such as standing in a straight line. But no matter how much of a Space Jock you think you are, you'll inevitably find yourself lost among the stars, without any space debris to guide you by. I'll bet most of you guys who think you can fly just fine without any indicators get really clumsy when the fight gets up close and involves ramming. I'll bet you're fans of backrolling too.
Now, there are specifically two reasons why this addition would be effective.
1. Although I can practice my maneuvers with near perfect accuracy, there are times when things go awry in combat, (for example I get rammed) and I don't know who's going where for how many jellybeans. This deviates from reality, and therefor would benefit from a jimmy-riggin', because the model for movement in this game deviates from reality. See below.
2. To quote Whistler's quote, "Basically, your motion is only important relative to other objects in space." I don't believe that for a second. When focusing on a target in VO, there are always three points you have to bear in mind; You must concentrate on your movement, your target's movement, and the origin, or the point where movement is zero.
So, the classic example of confusion in this case, is one where you accidently fly your Corvus Vulturius into an asteroid while trying to dodge some pesky pirate's attack. You find yourself travelling at 66 m/s in an unknown direction, and you've gotta dodge fast! One direction will allow you to achieve maximum acceleration, that is, the direction away from your current movement. The other will quickly cap you at 75, and earn your ship a fresh Neutron colored paint job. The two others will allow for more acceleration, but still cap your speed earlier than you'd like or expect.
Manuevering in 3 dimensions is complicated especially with engines that only have two settings (Full blast and completely off, as opposed to dynamic settings), and far more complicated than we're used to dealing with in every day life. Heck, people have enough trouble dealing with only one dimension, such as standing in a straight line. But no matter how much of a Space Jock you think you are, you'll inevitably find yourself lost among the stars, without any space debris to guide you by. I'll bet most of you guys who think you can fly just fine without any indicators get really clumsy when the fight gets up close and involves ramming. I'll bet you're fans of backrolling too.
Yun, MegaMynt: Have you guys never been pwned by the more advanced players? If not go to grey and get owned a couple of times. Then you will understand that they KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing. In combat you don't give a rat's arse about the 0 point. You just need the enemy, and conserve airspeed.
Also yun, you were saying at one point that energy weps were useless? again go play against a god player. When you know how to use em they are good.
Also yun, you were saying at one point that energy weps were useless? again go play against a god player. When you know how to use em they are good.
SuperMegaMynt, you got my point exactly, except that Iīm already blind after pressing some buttons in an attempt to dodge. The debris is way too thin to show you where you move to.
Zed1985, I donīt fight players because itīs useless. They shoot me down in less than 5 seconds. There is nothing you could learn from that except for that you better donīt fight players.
Some have helped me to get better instead of just shooting me down. So I know what Iīm supposed to do, but I can press the buttons in whatever way I like to no avail.
With guns, you get a better hit rate when you get closer to the target, but getting closer only means that you get shot down more quickly. The only thing that helps a little is having more firepower and a larger ship with a little more armor so that you can shoot down your enemy and run to repair before you take too many hits.
Itīs the shields that are missing. Without them, you are half dead already when you start out, and you are scared to hell because you know that a few hits will kill you instantly and that you got no chance in the first place.
Damage to the armor is inevitably deadly and to be avoided by all means. Depleted shields mean that you are almost dead. Iīm used to that for at least 20 years now, and itīs just true in this game as in all the others.
Zed1985, I donīt fight players because itīs useless. They shoot me down in less than 5 seconds. There is nothing you could learn from that except for that you better donīt fight players.
Some have helped me to get better instead of just shooting me down. So I know what Iīm supposed to do, but I can press the buttons in whatever way I like to no avail.
With guns, you get a better hit rate when you get closer to the target, but getting closer only means that you get shot down more quickly. The only thing that helps a little is having more firepower and a larger ship with a little more armor so that you can shoot down your enemy and run to repair before you take too many hits.
Itīs the shields that are missing. Without them, you are half dead already when you start out, and you are scared to hell because you know that a few hits will kill you instantly and that you got no chance in the first place.
Damage to the armor is inevitably deadly and to be avoided by all means. Depleted shields mean that you are almost dead. Iīm used to that for at least 20 years now, and itīs just true in this game as in all the others.