Forums » Suggestions
How about partial shield coverage for the light fighters, and have that a factor of the type of shield used.
Low end shields take 25% of the damage, and 75% goes to the hull, while the top ends work at a 50-50 level.
That way they offer some protection, but if you are getting hit, you are still getting hit.
Another way would be that they work by absorbing the first X amount/second. Low end shields holding off 100, while top of the line can eat 500.
That way there would be no "good as new".
Low end shields take 25% of the damage, and 75% goes to the hull, while the top ends work at a 50-50 level.
That way they offer some protection, but if you are getting hit, you are still getting hit.
Another way would be that they work by absorbing the first X amount/second. Low end shields holding off 100, while top of the line can eat 500.
That way there would be no "good as new".
How about pulling a 'Star Wars' and adding targetable shield generators?
I really like the curved shield regeneration idea, incarnate. It also opens up the idea of more complicated energy management aboard a capital ship:
Say a particular shield generator gets 2 energy consumption values: [(energy/maintained_shield_hp)/sec] and [energy/generated_shield_hp]. The first is the energy cost for maintaining some amount of strength for the shield and the second is the cost to generate new shield hit points. That way, as a ship's shield take damage, there is less of an energy draw to maintain the current shield strength and thus more energy available to increase the shield strength. For now, these numbers could be hardcoded by ship and the resulting curve used for each. You could also give shield generators maximum values for potential maintained shield strength and potential shield strength generation per second.
Say a particular shield generator gets 2 energy consumption values: [(energy/maintained_shield_hp)/sec] and [energy/generated_shield_hp]. The first is the energy cost for maintaining some amount of strength for the shield and the second is the cost to generate new shield hit points. That way, as a ship's shield take damage, there is less of an energy draw to maintain the current shield strength and thus more energy available to increase the shield strength. For now, these numbers could be hardcoded by ship and the resulting curve used for each. You could also give shield generators maximum values for potential maintained shield strength and potential shield strength generation per second.
@Incarnate: thanks for the explanation. Forget about shields, go work on new content. :)
@Jex: looks like your trolling is making you seriously intellectually challenged.
I am not your pedo boytoy Erik, i dont run around during fights.
@Jex: looks like your trolling is making you seriously intellectually challenged.
I am not your pedo boytoy Erik, i dont run around during fights.
My, someone is old and cranky. What's the matter Bojan? Is mean ol' Jex making you miss naptime? Here, I'll go get you some prune juice.
Let's combine some ideas.
Along with the shield curve, the lower it gets, the more damage sorta' leaks through to the hull. Say at 38.72% of shield strength, 12.81% of the damage gets through, and at 19.36%, 38.43% gets through, and so on in that manner...
Or whatever Arbitrary numbers the devs see fit.
Oh yes, and don't forget to poke fun at bolansplash on your way out!
Along with the shield curve, the lower it gets, the more damage sorta' leaks through to the hull. Say at 38.72% of shield strength, 12.81% of the damage gets through, and at 19.36%, 38.43% gets through, and so on in that manner...
Or whatever Arbitrary numbers the devs see fit.
Oh yes, and don't forget to poke fun at bolansplash on your way out!
Huge ships have huge generators, capable of generating a whole lot of power to charge a shield continuously, and that's what this thread has mostly been about. What about the smaller ships that don't have these huge generators?
Smaller ships have a Power Cell capable of 50/second output max, which is (hopefully) just a fraction of what a capship is capable of.
Thus, the smaller ships can't keep the shield on all the time.
That's why I suggest we put shields in weapon slots and treat them like weapons.
Let's say I've got a Large shield in my Large port.
When I press Secondary fire, the shield is up, indicated by a semi-transparent bubble around it.
This costs a small amount of energy, just to be maintained.
Then, when the shield is hit, it becomes less transparent, and whatever damage is dealt to it is transferred to drain on my power cell.
When the power cell is empty, I can't sustain the shield, and I start taking hits to the hull.
Any damage exceeding what the final hit on the shield absorbs will be dealt directly to the hull.
The differences in shields would be in the conversion between damage and energy. Better shields drain less energy for the same damage.
Some numbers:
Large Shield
Port: Large
Upkeep: 70/second
Impact: 1 energy per 5 damage (300 energy for a direct hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 1000kg (at least!)
Medium Shield
Port: Large
Upkeep: 55/second
Impact: 1.5 energy per 5 damage (450 energy for a drirect hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 750kg (maybe a little more)
Small Shield
Port: Small
Upkeep: 50/second ("inifishield")
Impact: 3 energy per 5 damage (900 energy for a direct hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 600kg
Still using the sunflare for reference, let's say I have a fully charged FastCharge Power Cell, up my Small shield and take a hit from the sunflare.
This "costs" 900 energy, but I only have 250, which leaves 650.
(650/3)*5 = 1083.3 (and change) in damage.
Let's say the same thing happens, but I'm using a Large shield.
I've had it powered up for a second, expecting the impact.
250 energy - 70 drained + 50 charged = 230 energy in the power cell.
The shield absorbs 230 of the 300 energy it costs to deflect, letting (70*5) = 300 damage through.
Before anyone says shields will kill PVP, consider this: Any energy I spend putting off the fight is lost, so I can't use it to fight back when the power cell is drained. It will also not really encourage running, as you can't jump out unless you have the energy to do so.
All it will do is add another level to the tactics of VO Twitch Dogfighting, and add more tactic to the eternal struggle of Pirate vs Trader.
I seriously don't think this will give traders any advantage over the pirates, but it will certainly make the whole thing more interesting.
[Edit]
When thinking about this, also factor in that turboing to escape also costs energy, lowering shield time!
Smaller ships have a Power Cell capable of 50/second output max, which is (hopefully) just a fraction of what a capship is capable of.
Thus, the smaller ships can't keep the shield on all the time.
That's why I suggest we put shields in weapon slots and treat them like weapons.
Let's say I've got a Large shield in my Large port.
When I press Secondary fire, the shield is up, indicated by a semi-transparent bubble around it.
This costs a small amount of energy, just to be maintained.
Then, when the shield is hit, it becomes less transparent, and whatever damage is dealt to it is transferred to drain on my power cell.
When the power cell is empty, I can't sustain the shield, and I start taking hits to the hull.
Any damage exceeding what the final hit on the shield absorbs will be dealt directly to the hull.
The differences in shields would be in the conversion between damage and energy. Better shields drain less energy for the same damage.
Some numbers:
Large Shield
Port: Large
Upkeep: 70/second
Impact: 1 energy per 5 damage (300 energy for a direct hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 1000kg (at least!)
Medium Shield
Port: Large
Upkeep: 55/second
Impact: 1.5 energy per 5 damage (450 energy for a drirect hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 750kg (maybe a little more)
Small Shield
Port: Small
Upkeep: 50/second ("inifishield")
Impact: 3 energy per 5 damage (900 energy for a direct hit with a sunflare rocket)
Mass: 600kg
Still using the sunflare for reference, let's say I have a fully charged FastCharge Power Cell, up my Small shield and take a hit from the sunflare.
This "costs" 900 energy, but I only have 250, which leaves 650.
(650/3)*5 = 1083.3 (and change) in damage.
Let's say the same thing happens, but I'm using a Large shield.
I've had it powered up for a second, expecting the impact.
250 energy - 70 drained + 50 charged = 230 energy in the power cell.
The shield absorbs 230 of the 300 energy it costs to deflect, letting (70*5) = 300 damage through.
Before anyone says shields will kill PVP, consider this: Any energy I spend putting off the fight is lost, so I can't use it to fight back when the power cell is drained. It will also not really encourage running, as you can't jump out unless you have the energy to do so.
All it will do is add another level to the tactics of VO Twitch Dogfighting, and add more tactic to the eternal struggle of Pirate vs Trader.
I seriously don't think this will give traders any advantage over the pirates, but it will certainly make the whole thing more interesting.
[Edit]
When thinking about this, also factor in that turboing to escape also costs energy, lowering shield time!
Okay your shield numbers do make some sense. The problem that I see is it could make fights REALLY, REALLY long. No one said it would DESTROY pvp, pvp will remain. It could however change it for the worse. A 1 min pvp fight is long enough, after 2 mins I get cramps in my hand. After 5 mins? I'd just quit.
-Zed-
Not necessarily. They could just reduce the hull hp for the ship a bit to counter the sheild's defense.
Not necessarily. They could just reduce the hull hp for the ship a bit to counter the sheild's defense.
Yeah make it a bit like the protoss in star craft?
I guess, although I thought they had equal life and sheilds...
In this case we would want significantly more sheild hp than hull hp, for the Itanis anyway. Serco should have worse sheilds and better hull %. As for the UIT, I don't really care what you do with us, but I imagine we could be a little bit of both, more like protoss than anyone else. Or we could possibly use exclusive UIT contruction looking vehicles... ahem marauder, and possibly a couple of moths with material to construct stuff with.
In this case we would want significantly more sheild hp than hull hp, for the Itanis anyway. Serco should have worse sheilds and better hull %. As for the UIT, I don't really care what you do with us, but I imagine we could be a little bit of both, more like protoss than anyone else. Or we could possibly use exclusive UIT contruction looking vehicles... ahem marauder, and possibly a couple of moths with material to construct stuff with.
No I don't like that idea at all. First of all we were talking about shields occupying a small or large port. So that would mean that a fully armed shit would all of a sudden be way out armored.
It would inevitably force people to carry shields. What would be the point of having a triflare if the opponent now has 3x less hull and no shields? or if he does have a shield then he can't be carrying 3x flares, and without 3x flares good luck destroying a Prom, especially a shielded Prom.
That only leaves energy. Energy can work on a prom, sure, but now you all of a sudden need to deliver WAY more damage and again you are forced to have 1 wep less because if that prom has flares and your hull is weaker... bye bye Valk.
The ships right now are pretty well balanced. And no matter what SOME people say combats do last a long enough time. There is no need in making ships tougher. And I see no point removing Hull HP and putting "regenerating shield" HP instead.
Also to yun: Look at the Homeworld series, no shields and it works fine.
*In this post I take the example of a Prom vs Valk because I though it illustrated the situation the best. This would be true for all cases though. My point was if shields are included it will force people to use them, and by using them it would make combat longer. Something which we don't really need.
It would inevitably force people to carry shields. What would be the point of having a triflare if the opponent now has 3x less hull and no shields? or if he does have a shield then he can't be carrying 3x flares, and without 3x flares good luck destroying a Prom, especially a shielded Prom.
That only leaves energy. Energy can work on a prom, sure, but now you all of a sudden need to deliver WAY more damage and again you are forced to have 1 wep less because if that prom has flares and your hull is weaker... bye bye Valk.
The ships right now are pretty well balanced. And no matter what SOME people say combats do last a long enough time. There is no need in making ships tougher. And I see no point removing Hull HP and putting "regenerating shield" HP instead.
Also to yun: Look at the Homeworld series, no shields and it works fine.
*In this post I take the example of a Prom vs Valk because I though it illustrated the situation the best. This would be true for all cases though. My point was if shields are included it will force people to use them, and by using them it would make combat longer. Something which we don't really need.
Hmmm. Your example of a prom vs valk with shields is a bit far fetched.
If prom is using L port for a shield generator it becomes an easy prey for any valk.
If its using one S port for a shield generator - same thing, valk will eat him alive.
But besides that, check Incs reply in this thread.
Itani in the backstory have shields but they are "mind focus" driven, not using any energy.
If prom is using L port for a shield generator it becomes an easy prey for any valk.
If its using one S port for a shield generator - same thing, valk will eat him alive.
But besides that, check Incs reply in this thread.
Itani in the backstory have shields but they are "mind focus" driven, not using any energy.
Yeah, but having the tail (the "backstory") wag the dog (the GAME) is not appropriate, IMHO. No matter how cool the backstory is, if everyone chooses to play an Itani character because they have better survivability in combat, Vendetta will become boring quickly.
The game needs, first of all, to have at least a semblance of "fairness". If the Itani can have shields without occupying a port, that's a huge tactical (and strategic) advantage for any Itani ship.
Perhaps the "S" port on Itani ships is not a shield generator, but a "mind-focus" device, which enhances the innate mental abilities or whatnot. The point is, that in order to have shields, you have to give up a slot. Otherwise, things become very UN-fair.
The game needs, first of all, to have at least a semblance of "fairness". If the Itani can have shields without occupying a port, that's a huge tactical (and strategic) advantage for any Itani ship.
Perhaps the "S" port on Itani ships is not a shield generator, but a "mind-focus" device, which enhances the innate mental abilities or whatnot. The point is, that in order to have shields, you have to give up a slot. Otherwise, things become very UN-fair.
Are you criticising the UN?
:D
Jokes aside I really am not that hot on the idea of shields for small ships. Lets try it on test center!!! ;)
:D
Jokes aside I really am not that hot on the idea of shields for small ships. Lets try it on test center!!! ;)
Lexicon is right.
We need more sercos.
Mind focus device in a S slot is a very good idea actually.
We need more sercos.
Mind focus device in a S slot is a very good idea actually.
My idea for small ships:
*Itani only
*Valkyrie and variants and IBG only
*No ports taken up, built in shield
*Cut armor in half, ie IBG now to 3600 and Valkyrie base down to 4750.
*The half of the armor taken away is now shield health. So 3600 shield health for the IBG, 4750 for the base Valkyrie.
*It takes one energy to replenish 10 shield health. Thus a Fast Charge can replenish 500 per second and 2500 per full charge, which takes 5 seconds.
*This would be the perfect counter to Proms.
*Coupled with the new repair costs, the new economy to make making money harder, along with station storage charges, and my suggestion to restrict the Valk and Prom, these ships would mostly only appear at the border. Where they belong. Against Proms.
*Itani only
*Valkyrie and variants and IBG only
*No ports taken up, built in shield
*Cut armor in half, ie IBG now to 3600 and Valkyrie base down to 4750.
*The half of the armor taken away is now shield health. So 3600 shield health for the IBG, 4750 for the base Valkyrie.
*It takes one energy to replenish 10 shield health. Thus a Fast Charge can replenish 500 per second and 2500 per full charge, which takes 5 seconds.
*This would be the perfect counter to Proms.
*Coupled with the new repair costs, the new economy to make making money harder, along with station storage charges, and my suggestion to restrict the Valk and Prom, these ships would mostly only appear at the border. Where they belong. Against Proms.
I am Itani, and even I would say:
Don't you think It's a bit over powered?
Don't you think It's a bit over powered?
Which part? :P
[ ] No ports taken
[ ] ~4,000 regenerating health
[ ] 10 shield health regained per 1 energy
[ ] No ports taken
[ ] ~4,000 regenerating health
[ ] 10 shield health regained per 1 energy
All of the above. Shields on small vessels, what with combat being how it is, could be very, very overpowering.