"The rear-facing turret"

This isn't so much a new weapon type as a new way to use current weapons. Again, this weapon idea was born from a desire for more defensive play.

With the frigate we know that turrets can act independently of a parent ship, and that movement, weapon facing, line of fire, etc. are all used within the AI. It is because of this that I suggest the "rear-facing turret". This is a weapon with good AI tracking (to accommodate for the complete lack of visual aiming) that fires **behind** the ship.

Thoughts?

This I very much like. When I first saw the "Rear" weapons port, I thought that I could finally have rear-facing rockets to discourage pirates. Then I realized that I couldn't. We really do near some kind of rear-facing gun availability.

stupid question, but how are you gonna aim with the rear facing weapon ?

cheers

Good auto-targeting

Missles? i dunno, i suppose someone tailing you wouldn't expect a avalon to roll out of your barrel!

It'd be cool to have a sunflare launcher rear-facing in the maurauder. What would would-be pirates think then? /me laughs sinisterly

At present, this is a not yet fully solved technical problem.

However, once it is solved (and there is every indication that it will be solved quickly) I'm perfectly willing to see ships carrying around one or more turrets mounting configurable weapons, but I do very much feel that such turrets are too powerful mounted on ships as small and agile as any we have at present. In other words, the smallest ship I'd like to see with even a single turret would be about twice the length of the Ragnarok and at most as agile as it, if not a couple of steps less agile than it. On ships smaller and more agile than that, the ability to cover a much wider firing arc independently of motion is simply too powerful - as I think will be shown if turrets were mounted on say the current Prometheus.

See the thread regarding 'semi-capital ships'.

http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1369

Well, there is a slight problem with this.
Currently projectiles are your speed + rocket speed, rear fire would be your speed - rocket speed, a postive number will continue to glide towards you, a negative will glide away.

This would be a nuisance with avalons =\

Well, then don't mount Avalons (or even rockets) in a turret. Would you really want the AI to take control of something that might do splash damage to you if misused?

BAH!!! While the idea sounds cool, I'd have to disagree. It's not too hard to boost away from any battle right now, especially when flying in special ships. Adding a rear-firing weapon would make chases impossible. Literally impossible. Already too many players break away from combat when damaged and end up docking with ease. No matter how hard you to try to catch up, any skilled player can keep a steady distance via tap boosting. In other words, it's already hard to run someone down and kill them before they dock. Sometimes you get lucky and pick 'em off right at the dock, but 90% of the time they get away.

It would suck if people would be able to run away and dock every single time they got into a battle, with the aid of rockets or turrets being fired from the tailpipe of the ship. You'd be spending most of your time going off to the side to avoid those rockets, giving the target even a greater chance of gaining distance. This is bad. On the other hand if there was a human controlled turret that would require another player to ride shotgun, then I'm all for it. Mainly because that would require a lot more skill and effort.

PS: Ever heard of mines?

Arolte: Notice the comment...

"but I do very much feel that such turrets are too powerful mounted on ships as small and agile as any we have at present."

Please go regard the 'semi-capital ship' thread. The smallest ship I recommended for a turret has a 10% penalty to maximum speed (with a heavy engine cruise at 59 m/s, max turbo at 180 m/s), a 10% penalty to turbo energy cost (a heavy engine would cost 72/second on turbo), is longer than a Ragnarok by several meters and more than twice as tall, and has about the same agility. Anything more agile, and you are absolutely right there would be some very broken stupid tactics involved, but also consider that the 'strike gunship' I refer to is supposed to cost several times that of a fighter when fully loaded up (I'm guessing just under 100,000 cr unless you buy light engines and other low quality hardware) and is supposed to be a challenging target normally for a single fighter despite it just having 13,000 hull points. It's a 'mini-capital ship' and carries with it some of both the advantages and disadvantages of same.

But again, you are absolutely right to assert that for a fighter to acquire some of the advantages of a capital ship and none of the disadvantages would be very unbalancing.

Excellent. We have come to an agreement yet again! A gunship that can only equip itself with efficient/fast charge combo with a player controllable turret would most certainly be a fun thing to watch.

A think my point was missed... or about 60% missed anyway.

"I do very much feel that such turrets are too powerful mounted on ships as small and agile as any we have at present"

I'm not asking for turrets like the turrets on the frigate, I'm asking for small-ship weapons like the adv. gattling turret, only with a specific facing. Why is it more deadly to have a rear-facing gattling than a forward facing one?

"why?"

What it would allow: Defensive players (yes there are defensive players and yes they deserve consideration too) could deter a chase without having to disengage from a high turbo. The only difference to balance would be: do you point your face towards the attacker, or your tail?

"Adding a rear-firing weapon would make chases impossible. Literally impossible."

Not at all... it would simply mean that those who have opted to make their ships less chasable are harder to chase. You could still get them from the side, or even from the front if you managed to get in front of them. Now remember, in order to have a rea-facing weapon they have presumably given something up somewhere else: e.g., they do NOT have a forward facing gun, making it difficult for them to attack. Only a ship with 2 "L" slots could have adv. gattlings facing both ways.

So, if you want to chase down people who do not want to fight you, and they have chosen to design their ships in this defense configuration, you are somewhat out of luck.

Is that bad? I don't think it is.

"how are you gonna aim with the rear facing weapon"

As electric pointed out, with good auto-targetting. But even if you mounted unguided rear-facing weapons, it would stop people from comming up from directly behind you, and would probably find a place among some players' gaming styles.

Ok. I was thinking you were talking a real turret with presumably something close to a hemispherical firing arc.

I'm not sure that you'd much enjoy a rear firing weapon. I think it would be much harder to employ than you think, even with something with as good of autotargeting as a adv. gatling. And a rear firing rocket would not be much different than a mine.

OK.. back to this thread. :-)

Yes, I thin kit would be fun. I think it would also be fun to have side-facing weapons (especially on less agile ships).

For example, you could use a ragnorak (or similar ship) as a gun-ship, and turbo past a capital ship while spraying it with side guns. Captain Harlock would be so proud!

I'm not the expert on navy vessels, but didn't most ships of old have side-facing guns? Were there any vessels that had rear facing guns (other than turreted capital ships)? Not that naval design should dictate space combat vessels, but it's a good topic for discussion. Cele?.. I believe your the resident expert in these regards.

If you think back to the Elite days you'll remember that you could have 'Military Lasers' in all ports IE one on each side.
The side and rear ones werer useable by switching view ( f1 to f4 ) though this wasnt easy because of course it screws all your controlls up.
It would be cool to have some sort of rearward facing weapon, perhaps some sort of Patriot ® missile or flare / chaff system.