In Greyspace we should be able to hurt our own nation members.

that will fixe a lot of problems :
(pirating/nation standing/liberation/liquidation...)

He just wants to grief a new Serco guild because he's afraid that if SCAR ressurects, BotH will be out of a job!

just because you don't want to tank your standing isn't a valid reason to remove ff protection.

pick and choose.
SCP or ability to kill anyone you want.

ff protection exists for a reason.

it will be removed when the devs see fit.
not before.

kthxbi

It's been mentioned before, but I would even go so far as to have FF removed in all but newbie systems. Yes.

So waidaminute, I don't get it i though you could get attacked by anyone in grey space.

Removing FF in greyspace would be a step in the right direction....
I want it removed completely. I know, newbies would be at risk, etc. To protect newbies, if that turns out to be an actual problem (I don't think it would be) I suggest that trial accounts and perhaps up to one paid month be both immune to FF and incapable of inflicting FF. Kind of like training wheels. Perhaps also some weapons could have a "safety" that can be toggled on and off. Friendly fire could also be penalized heavily in-game, especially if abused. Friendly fire in nation/station space will get a strike force all up in your.... butt.

I'm with Prof. Chaos on this. Plus, we had all this already. Can't be bothered to dredge the thread up, though.

Yap, it's got to go, and it's already been discussed to death, and it will be dealt with, IIRC, when the Devs overhaul the Faction system.

So patience.

I am patient. My middle name is patient. mifune 'patient' toshiro, yessir.

jex pretty much covered it. but basically, FF is problematic for more reasons than just piracy.

Simplest example is in group fights. If you're tangling with someone one-on-one and their friend comes and attacks you with flares, it makes sense that the flares should hurt their ally as well.

However, that's not the case, and it allows indiscriminate firing in multi-situations.

If someone doesn't know how to time their shot so as not to hit their ally, there should be certain penalties.

Just a hint, the reason Ayn posted this thread was because he wasted over an HOUR trying to station camp another Serco (who had good standing) in Latos. Not for any useful or intelligent reason. Just personal gain, and an evident overdose of stupidity.

"[BotH]: Where all you see of the BotH of us is our backsides, because we're always running when you fight back."

That does not in the least change the fact that the current no-FF regulation is not up to par with the game.

It does, however, provide a nice bit of perspective. Ayn just wants to be able to grief/station camp anyone and everyone, and when he finds he can't, he whines about it.

Yes, the FF protection needs to go, but removing it because Person #1 is frustrated that they couldn't station camp Person #2 (who is of their own nation) for no valid reason other than that Person #1 is just an idiot is stupid.

Miharu, that's an ad hominem argument... won't really lead anywhere in the end.

What about Shape's point? I think the group furball example alone is cause enough to remove FF. It's also very awkward in the Border War and CtC when two UIT are helping opposing sides.

When nation FF protection goes, I hope they will impose penalties on Faction for killing things in grey also.

That'll solve another problem : the uber-loved pirate.

Why is that a problem, so long as we only kill ye in unmonitored space?

As long as I follow the rules in civilized space and do my job (say, killing massive numbers of Itani over in Deneb), Serco High Command isn't going to give a damn who I pirate in Odia.

Dr. Lecter spews :

Why is that a problem, so long as we only kill ye in unmonitored space?

As long as I follow the rules in civilized space and do my job (say, killing massive numbers of Itani over in Deneb), Serco High Command isn't going to give a damn who I pirate in Odia

---

Dunno, doc, that's according to your intepretation.

Last I heard, the Serco High Command doesn't care what you think too :).

They could, however, have heard stories about how you shot up massive numbers of Serco traders (or even Xang Xi traders who were carrying Serco owned property) in Odia who were providing raw materials for the war effort and decided that you are a nuisance. I mean, that's what I think, who knows what the Serco High Command thinks....

The penalty for FF should be that you get cops after you. Shoot a "friend" in "friendly space" and a strike force is sent to go get you within a minute or two. If a system is come up with for reporting "crimes" in grey space, then the cops will be after you once you return to nation space. There should be juristiction, though, as in Serco cops won't chase you in grey space, etc. You should lose standing, though, even if you're outside juristiction and they can't go shoot you.

Maybe even pay fines?

They could, however, have heard stories

Gee, that would be hard, seeing as how the space is unmonitored and all.