Forums » Suggestions
Dynamic Economy and Ship Prices
Here’s a wild idea that I had while considering a dynamic economy, the meaninglessness of death in this game, and while reading the old thread Incarnate started last year on increasing ship prices. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11768?page=1 First, let me say that this idea is really wild, and long term, because it depends on the bare bones of the crafting system (but not an actual crafting system) and player/guild-owned stations.
Ok, here’s my wild idea: Don’t regulate prices at all! A free market economy will balance most if not all of these issues without sticky messing around with tweaking fixed prices. Allow stations to build ships if they have the proper parts/materials. The stations have to buy these materials from players who mine, and that would be the cost of building the ship. They could then offer the new ships for sale at their station at whatever price they think they can make a profit and still remain competitive. There could be a place in the UI at every station where a player can look up the prices of ships at all stations in nation space, kind of a classified ads page. Stations could pay a monthly fee to advertise on that page, so if they want to keep prices a bit lower and rely on word of mouth advertising, that’s an option. This way, if there’s a ship no one buys, and there’s a surplus at a station, they could have a sale, and more people would buy that ship. Likewise, if there’s high demand for a ship, the price goes up. Price works in the real world as a regulator of supply and demand, it can work in this game, too. This would of course be easily extendable to equipment/weapon prices as well.
Another wild idea, taken right from real life capitalism, that will help mitigate prices of big ships for poor players: Used shipyards. If you save up for a big new ship, you can either trade-in your old ship or sell it straight to another player for less than the price of a new one. Poorer players could buy a used ship for less than what a new one would cost them, and the seller then has a bit more buying power to apply to acquiring that shiny new ship. Ships can also have a trade-in value set by the station owner. The traded ship can then be resold at a reduced price. Some tweaking could be implemented for depreciation, as in a used ship is not quite as good as a new one. This could come after a crafting system is in place, maybe parts could wear out after a time, and used ships have more light-years on them. I remember EVN had used ships that had depreciated and ones that were upgraded.
Also, only make license levels enforceable in nation space, maybe by an NPC/player police force that occaisionally scans for equipment/ships you’re not permitted to own, and imposes consequences. Then the black market in grey space would be a real, dynamic black market, with players negotiating real prices with other players, and pirating would have a purpose. Also, salvaging and rescuing would have use in this kind of a system.
Ok, here’s my wild idea: Don’t regulate prices at all! A free market economy will balance most if not all of these issues without sticky messing around with tweaking fixed prices. Allow stations to build ships if they have the proper parts/materials. The stations have to buy these materials from players who mine, and that would be the cost of building the ship. They could then offer the new ships for sale at their station at whatever price they think they can make a profit and still remain competitive. There could be a place in the UI at every station where a player can look up the prices of ships at all stations in nation space, kind of a classified ads page. Stations could pay a monthly fee to advertise on that page, so if they want to keep prices a bit lower and rely on word of mouth advertising, that’s an option. This way, if there’s a ship no one buys, and there’s a surplus at a station, they could have a sale, and more people would buy that ship. Likewise, if there’s high demand for a ship, the price goes up. Price works in the real world as a regulator of supply and demand, it can work in this game, too. This would of course be easily extendable to equipment/weapon prices as well.
Another wild idea, taken right from real life capitalism, that will help mitigate prices of big ships for poor players: Used shipyards. If you save up for a big new ship, you can either trade-in your old ship or sell it straight to another player for less than the price of a new one. Poorer players could buy a used ship for less than what a new one would cost them, and the seller then has a bit more buying power to apply to acquiring that shiny new ship. Ships can also have a trade-in value set by the station owner. The traded ship can then be resold at a reduced price. Some tweaking could be implemented for depreciation, as in a used ship is not quite as good as a new one. This could come after a crafting system is in place, maybe parts could wear out after a time, and used ships have more light-years on them. I remember EVN had used ships that had depreciated and ones that were upgraded.
Also, only make license levels enforceable in nation space, maybe by an NPC/player police force that occaisionally scans for equipment/ships you’re not permitted to own, and imposes consequences. Then the black market in grey space would be a real, dynamic black market, with players negotiating real prices with other players, and pirating would have a purpose. Also, salvaging and rescuing would have use in this kind of a system.
I think several of us hope and expect prices to be unregulated (outside nation space). I would like to see people post buy/sell tickets at the station they want the items at/taken from along with a number and unit price (e.g. in Divinia M-14 I post [400 Purified Water at -10] credits, meaning that I am selling 400 CU of Purified Water for 10 credits each, all of which are presently locked in Divinia M-14). It would also be nice if there were 2 kinds of tickets: "full" tickets would require that the ticket be fulfilled entirely the only time it is taken, whereas "partial" tickets could be filled incrementally (e.g. person A buys 1 item from the ticket and person B buys the rest). Full tickets would let people set up bulk purchase discount deals while partial tickets would let people essentially set up a retail store front. Stations would post their own buy/sell tickets for whatever they need (buy) and produce (sell).
No, we do not want depreciation on used vessels; that is a needless complication and not fun.
License levels are going to be enforceable at every station you try to equip at (i.e. nations require full LLs, corps may have a small reduction, Corvus has a larger reduction, player stations can set their own, etc.). Incarnate's post about that is somewhere around here...
No, we do not want depreciation on used vessels; that is a needless complication and not fun.
License levels are going to be enforceable at every station you try to equip at (i.e. nations require full LLs, corps may have a small reduction, Corvus has a larger reduction, player stations can set their own, etc.). Incarnate's post about that is somewhere around here...
Let me see if I understand your ticket idea. Do you mean something like what we have in real life like a bulletin board where people post stuff they're looking for or selling, like "2004 Toyonda Pious 75,000 miles, $11,400 OBO"?
Depreciation is a little detail that I can live without, but I think would be cool and add a bit of immersiveness and realism into the game, and wouldn't be complicated at all. I'd probably be voted down on that one, though.
If you know where Incarnate's post on license levels is, I'd love to read it. I may try to look for it.... I understand not being able to buy something from a station (especially in nation space) without the proper license level, but I would like to see no license restrictions in buying stuff on the black market, i.e. directly from another player, and equiping your ship with it. Also, if you blow someone up and salvage an item you're not allowed to have, or pirate a cargo hold full of them.
I forget who it was, but someone wanted a twitch-based minigame sort of a thing for a crafting system. I think it was a terrible idea, but I may have just thought of an application for it. Since no station with any respect for the law would even let you equip something illegal, you'd have to do it yourself. Maybe if there were some stations in gray space with a "Do-it-yourself" garage that you can use for a fee, then you can go in there and install an illegal weapon yourself. You could buy the "manual" for the item, and see instructions on what wire to put where in what order. Then, in the garage, you see the port on your ship, and you see your part. You have to connect the right wires like in the manual, and you have a time limit because other people are waiting to use the garage. If you do it wrong, your weapon/equipment is fried and useless, and you're out whatever money you spent. The more high-tech the item, the more complicated it is to connect it.
This is veering off topic now, but my deal with license levels is that there's no way around them, while in real life, you can drive without a license, and as long as you don't get caught, nothing happens to you. I think it would be more realistic, more immersive, and more fun if there were ways around the law, and a player/NPC police force, so you have to dodge the cops. Some players would love to play cops, and I would love to avoid them. Leveling up is the most boring and unrealistic part of the game to me (talk about rewarding time in-game and not skill), and they're fine as long as there's a better system of enforcement, i.e., cops.
Depreciation is a little detail that I can live without, but I think would be cool and add a bit of immersiveness and realism into the game, and wouldn't be complicated at all. I'd probably be voted down on that one, though.
If you know where Incarnate's post on license levels is, I'd love to read it. I may try to look for it.... I understand not being able to buy something from a station (especially in nation space) without the proper license level, but I would like to see no license restrictions in buying stuff on the black market, i.e. directly from another player, and equiping your ship with it. Also, if you blow someone up and salvage an item you're not allowed to have, or pirate a cargo hold full of them.
I forget who it was, but someone wanted a twitch-based minigame sort of a thing for a crafting system. I think it was a terrible idea, but I may have just thought of an application for it. Since no station with any respect for the law would even let you equip something illegal, you'd have to do it yourself. Maybe if there were some stations in gray space with a "Do-it-yourself" garage that you can use for a fee, then you can go in there and install an illegal weapon yourself. You could buy the "manual" for the item, and see instructions on what wire to put where in what order. Then, in the garage, you see the port on your ship, and you see your part. You have to connect the right wires like in the manual, and you have a time limit because other people are waiting to use the garage. If you do it wrong, your weapon/equipment is fried and useless, and you're out whatever money you spent. The more high-tech the item, the more complicated it is to connect it.
This is veering off topic now, but my deal with license levels is that there's no way around them, while in real life, you can drive without a license, and as long as you don't get caught, nothing happens to you. I think it would be more realistic, more immersive, and more fun if there were ways around the law, and a player/NPC police force, so you have to dodge the cops. Some players would love to play cops, and I would love to avoid them. Leveling up is the most boring and unrealistic part of the game to me (talk about rewarding time in-game and not skill), and they're fine as long as there's a better system of enforcement, i.e., cops.
All the tickets would have exactly the same layout [number item at price (type)], unlike a real bulletin board, but otherwise, yes.
The "around the law" stuff is known about and accepted as eventual. There has be a bunch of talk about lawmen and scanning and smuggling too... There will not be restrictions on TRADING items (with other players or NPCs), just restrictions on where you can equip them. Oh, and there are already ways around some license levels - go buy ships and equip things in a Corvus station.
The "around the law" stuff is known about and accepted as eventual. There has be a bunch of talk about lawmen and scanning and smuggling too... There will not be restrictions on TRADING items (with other players or NPCs), just restrictions on where you can equip them. Oh, and there are already ways around some license levels - go buy ships and equip things in a Corvus station.