Now I know that this idea will get most people screaming at me, but I would like you to at least consider it for a second. (Btw I didn't see it already suggested, but if it was tell me please)

Most online games take alot of steps to prevent scripting. From UO (ultima online) that has allegedly a system that recognises scrips to RuneScape with all the random events that make scripting a real pain. All these games have one thing in common, the scripters have 'em beaten. Let's face it the world is full of people with computer skills and waaaaayyyy to much time on their hands. I have yet to play a game for which I couldn't find a script online... Well except VO, I haven't looked for one.

So my idea would be to actually embrace scripting. Make it an integral part of the game where your ship never actually disapears. If you wish it can remain docked in a station, or it can do what ever you need it to do.
I don't want to go into the details of what the ingame scripting would involve because this idea is very proabably going to be shot down. But it really annoys me to see many very reasonnable suggestions being refused because it would make scripters life easier.
I believe the wording was "A suggestion for an ingame map was already made, but it was refused because it would give unfair advantage to people that have scripting skills".
If you give scripting to everyone no one would have an advantage anymore.

So what do you guys think? (and even if you think that it's a horrible idea tell me why)

** This idea isn't mine , a long while ago I had heard of a game called "Atriarch" that was going to be based on that. Not sure, but I think it never got beyond alpha.

It's an interresting concept, and I think there'll be a fair number of people who also like the idea.

Still, I know I don't have time to learn a new scripting language for VO, and I doubt the devs would have the time or the interrest in implimenting this much customability when John's vision directs the progress of the game so strongly. Not that this is a bad thing, I happen to love John's ideas!

I think instead of this, the devs should have a list of tasks that they'd like added, but don't have the time to do so. Then using Lua, or whatever VO is coded in (Isn't it Lua?) the people who already know it or learn it can write up that part of the code and submit it to the devs. Maybe then to save the devs time from testing we have a separate group of people to do this.

Another MMORPG I played a while back, but stopped, had weekly updates, and a dev team of two people. And only one of those people actually wrote code. The reason it could get so much put out so rapidly is because they had what I'm suggesting. It wasn't just "Make up whatever you want and send it to us" it was "We need these things, if anyone could submit those it'd be great." This way we would stick to John's vision while still getting the community involved and the progress going quicker.

Yes, I like this idea :)

-Smitts

PS. Devs, if it comes out as such, I mean NO criticism to your work. As I said I LOVE where VO is going, I love where it is, and I love Inc keeping us posted as often as he does. I remember when I joined and it was "Holy crap they missed the monday news update and the monday In Progress update!" and then when it was "Holy crap! A news post for the first time in months!" and I love that the devs seem to be putting out at least a patch or a news update every week. It really feels good to know we've got devs WITH us!

I have also considered ideas along this line.

One of the primary argument for scripting is that someone will always figure out how to script, and thus gain a significant advantage over other players.

One of the primary arguments against scripting, is that the game is already in a digitial medium, which negates many of the normal advatages humans have over computers irl. You can make scripts do things ingame that you could never make a script do irl, and make it faster than a human can do it ingame or irl. all of a sudden, you have a game that requires scripting to compete. that could be a very fun game, but it would be an intirely different game than this one.

right now a would be scripter could try to use image recognition to make a bot, but that might test the proccessing ability of the client system, and put the bot on a more even footing with a human, who can do complex image recognition many times faster than a computer.

and finnally, humans where mapping stars systems thosands of years before anyone invented a computer or a homing becon or whatever, but now we are crippled without our precious tech.
whats up with that? we can't map an astroid belt without a gps system? how about you just google mapping and learn some real skills and apply it to the game, instead of asking for a skilless game?

they did 'embrace scripting' during beta8, using the builtin lua language. within a day or two, people were teleporting inside asteroids, away from fights, exploding other players remotely, and writing obnoxious messages using cargo.

if you have a solution to these problems, discuss them. otherwise, do not dare come here accusing people of 'shooting down ideas' for 'no reason'. thats just incredibly offensive.

Having heard a bunch of times of all the things ananzi describes, and knowing how scripting, macroing and bots can ruin a game (witness EnB) I'm totally against it.

For the record, we didn't deny some sort of navigational interface because it would enable scripting (at least I didn't, that I recall) I'm actually going to make an intra-sector navigational interface, and have always planned to.

There is some concern over the ability to exploit the game in ways that give players advantages based on their accumulation of scripts or programming ability. I very much WOULD like to integrate scripting into the game for some functionality. The user interface is the easiest, other possible areas would include player-owned stations (scripting management of resources, bot mining, station defenses, whatever) and so on.

The challenge with integrating any sort of language, is sandboxing the accessible functions so that people aren't able to abuse the system and gain utterly unfair advantages (such as teleporting around or whatever else, as mentioned above). A game that allows total language access to all gameplay and universe functionality will cease to be a game and become instead a kind of programming toy. An amusing plaything for hardcore geeks, and not any fun for anyone else. I am not in an position where I can allow this to happen.. it would destroy the game as a "game" and drive us out of business.

I *am* however a big supporter of using player-created content as much as possible, and giving the users power to create and influence the universe. As long as it falls within the constructed rules of the "game" as a whole. Witness: the mission editor, the plans for opening up Lua access in the UI, and so on.

So, anyway, I'm not against scripting per se, but I also recognize that it takes a lot of work to define it in such a way that it *adds* to the game, rather than creating problems.

I like the idea of embracing scripting, but am definitely with smittens and incarnate... Perhaps having a way to piece together parts of whatever is the current AI to control your ship would be possible? That would keep abuses to whatever the AI can/cannot do at the time at least.

Smittens: Sorry I have not explained well enough what I meant when I said scripting. What I meant that there would be a set of "behaviors" which you can choose and string them one after the other to create various actions. So you wouldn't need to actually elarn any language at all. I was not suggestiong an access to the code, or what ever. Hell if that were implemented I'd be as lost as anyone, I have but very basic knowledge of programming (a bit of C and Fortran).
So one way it could look like would be.
Set activity: mining
Set region: itan a-7
Set base: Itan k-9
Set retreat hp: 31%
etc... etc... etc...

TRS: I agree with most of what you say, but the thing is you can rather easily make a script for a jettison miner that will get your licence up (not that much point but still).

Ananzi: What the hell? I was not accusing anyone, also while it is my fault of not expressing myself clearly I was not suggesting a code manipulation but a set of behaviors. And seriously " do not dare come here accusing people of 'shooting down ideas' for 'no reason'. thats just incredibly offensive". Who is the one being offensive? I have never said shoot down ideas for no reason. I said that the idea was probably going to be shot down, never have I used the words "for no reason"

Incarnate: Good to hear; without a map I am always feeling lost, even in a system to which I am pretty used to. But I still don't understand why people though that I was asking for "total language access".

LostCommander: Well that was what I was pretty much trying to suggest...

I still don't understand why people can't just google mapping and learn something rather than insist on gps/autonav/whatever.

So it sounds like you want a VO version of AppleScript or Automator. That could be cool, and, from what I have heard, it has the added benefit of being difficult for real programers to use which could help prevent people abusing it.

Oh, and here are links if you don't know what these two programs are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applescript
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automator_%28software%29

Ah! We mac users will always understand each other :)

"it has the added benefit of being difficult for real programers to use which could help prevent people abusing it."

And the "Comment of the week" award goes to... Pixelcat!