Forums » Suggestions

A summary of "rebalancing" and what needs to be un-rebalanced

Apr 02, 2006 rhapsody link
1) Battery mass- Fine.
2) Bot/player drops- Fine except for mining Corvus stations for LENs. Because of this addition, I believe mines should trigger the NFZ Strikeforce. If you want Law Enforcement Neuts, you should be prepared to die for them; not simply mine a station and hide smugly somewhere.
3) The Moth: armor lowered, speed lowered. I like this change, and I think it works as is.
4) Top speeds capped at 220/225. Here's a list of ships that had a perk taken away: Cents, SVG, Corvult, Warthog Territorial Defender, Valkyrie. I think at the very least the *ratio* from before should have stayed the same, that is these ships should be 20%-25% faster than a Rag. They should at least be faster than a Hornet or a SCP...but they're not.
5) Centurion resizing- fine.
6) AGT made heavier- the following ships have been rendered nearly useless: AGT hog, dual AGT taur. The SCP is nearly unaffected. This has also put a lot of pressure to get the Hive gat turret, which is some 400kg lighter and does more damage (thus making the Hivegat/flare prom even cheaper than the agt/flare prom was before)

As a result of these changes, the Skycommand Promethius, I believe, has more of an advantage than it did before. And if the AGT/flare SCP wasn't cheap before, it sure as hell is now. The handling of the smaller ships has been made a bit looser by the battery weight, and their top speed is now no higher than that of the Skycommand itself, and in some cases, the drain is higher to boot. While the reweighting of the AGT changes the prom's handling, it doesn't do it very much, and now pilots have access to the lighter, more damaging Hive Gatling Turret to make their SCP that much more effective.
Apr 02, 2006 KixKizzle link
The AGT mass was kinda a useless tweak.
AGT was not the problem.
Prom was the problem.
AGT + Flares + Prom = Problem
But HOG was always a piece of cake.
Now the Hog is kinda useless.
Apr 03, 2006 bojansplash link
Think its time proms get a cut in cruise & top speed and thrust.
Jan and Kix are right.
Apr 03, 2006 ufoman link
Bojan, ye remember me when I was trying to fight using SCP.
As I can see now, it was kinda ridiculous. After a week in Agresso, I sat down in its cockpit, flew out of the station and said "WTF? Is is really so slow or what?"
So, if the devs would reduce SCP's maneuverability... it'd be REALLY useless...
Apr 03, 2006 Will Roberts link
How do you figure the SCP is cheaper, or better? The Valk gets +100 Kg vs. the +1100 of the Prom w/Gatt? The IBG and all Valks are still in the top 10 of thrust/weight and spin.

And the only change cutting the top speed has done is made the Deneb run more interesting. Nobody fights at 220 m/s.

Is this just another "I Hate Proms" thread?
Apr 03, 2006 bojansplash link
This is very simple.
All light ships had their top speed cut to aprox 220-225 and 100kg more weight on light ship equals roughly 1000kg more weight on heavy ship.
Thus, proms /due to their unbelieveable high thrust and spin torque/ are basically unaffected by this changes and, while we are at it, they still have top speed of 220.
Light ships became more sluggish to dodge agt and flares and proms are still the same and lights cannot even take advantage of their former top speed in some anti-prom tactics.
Also heavy ships that have been able to cope with SCP before, like agresso or rag, due to agt mass increase are greatly affected and rendered useless against it unless you use only rocket combos and are extremely skilled to confront SCP in a ship like that.
I, personally, dont have anything against proms. I never use them but thats my choice. I thought this was a balancing thread so my post is strictly in that direction.
Apr 03, 2006 Dihelical Synthesis link
1) Battery mass- Fine.

*** Agreed

2) Bot/player drops- Fine except for mining Corvus stations for LENs. Because of this addition, I believe mines should trigger the NFZ Strikeforce. If you want Law Enforcement Neuts, you should be prepared to die for them; not simply mine a station and hide smugly somewhere.

*** Agreed, and might I add, even before the LENBs, that Lightning-mine issue with them not triggering the NFZ SF was an exploit that needed fixing; it's bad for free and unfair PKs as it is for harvesting equipment.

3) The Moth: armor lowered, speed lowered. I like this change, and I think it works as is.

*** Disagree - Have you tried to fly one through sedina yet? The moth-nerfing was necessary - I'm not arguing that, but I think the changes made were too extreme, and the moth needs either it's armor OR its speed restored.

4) Top speeds capped at 220/225. Here's a list of ships that had a perk taken away: Cents, SVG, Corvult, Warthog Territorial Defender, Valkyrie. I think at the very least the *ratio* from before should have stayed the same, that is these ships should be 20%-25% faster than a Rag. They should at least be faster than a Hornet or a SCP...but they're not.

*** Agreed, these caps really hurt those ships, especially given their new relative speed (compared to other ships) and the fact that their drain is still high (only now, it's unreasonably high, because they have no outstanding speed to make up for it)

5) Centurion resizing- fine.

*** Agreed.

6) AGT made heavier- the following ships have been rendered nearly useless: AGT hog, dual AGT taur. The SCP is nearly unaffected. This has also put a lot of pressure to get the Hive gat turret, which is some 400kg lighter and does more damage (thus making the Hivegat/flare prom even cheaper than the agt/flare prom was before)

*** Partially Agree - The AGT weight gain was a good idea, but it was excessive, and was not accompanied by a thrust decrease on the Prometheus (which is clearly a part of the problem). The hive gat should be heavier than the regular gat as well, which would help to solve that balance issue (note that it should be no means be WORSE than the regular gat, since it's so hard to get, and can be taken away easily)

On the subject of proms:

Infiniturbo needs to be eliminated from *ALL* variations of the prom.

Proms need a thrust nerf to make mass felt on them.

Proms could possibly use a turbo speed nerf too, but they really didn't need it until all the other ships were cut down below 220/225 (which I still debate as a bad idea, and something that should be changed back)
Apr 04, 2006 CrazySpence link
I, the hog king, am now the proud owner of a fleet of bricks. Therefore I have renamed myself the brick king until further notice.
Apr 04, 2006 tumblemonster link
The only balance change I would like to see undone is the top speed change. The valk, specifically, was always a great chase ship, but with its huge speed reduction, can no longer catch anything but a moth.
Apr 04, 2006 CrippledPidgeon link
Spence, I bet my fleet of bricks is heavier and more brick-like than your fleet of bricks
Apr 04, 2006 CrazySpence link
perhaps you should be the Cinder-block king then