Forums » Suggestions
I know this was mentioned before, but I couldn't find the damn thread...
The Problem:
When making a jump, different players and characters have different travel times. Players with a slow connection take longer to come out the other end of a jump than players with a fast connection, and NPCs come out instantaneously. This makes it difficult for a player with a slower connection chase or break pursuit from a player with a faster connection, and of course the NPCs escape on the other side from the players, or thier SFs overtake and are waiting when you finish the jump.
Of course, you can't just make a jump take as long as the person with the slowest connection, because that would slow things down too far and make travel a chore for everyone... what you can do, is add a governor to the jump time that would begin to level the high end of the playing field.
The Governor:
Make all jumps take 2-5 seconds plus any additional loading time required... if that's not enough to make a difference, make it longer. Accompany it with a cool vortex-tunneling animation to alleviate the tension/boredom of the lengthened jumps.
NPCs would give you five seconds to get out the other side, before emerging, giving you the opportunity to chase/evade them, players would be more even in navigation ability, and the universe has one less unrealistic and annoying quirk.
of course, long-haul timed missions should be adjusted to give more time.
EDIT (reconsideration):
Perhaps sectors could be flagged at any given time as to the amount of data they will require to fully load, and send that value to the clients, which adjust the load time governor accordingly (bots would use this system as well) so if you were, say, jumping into an empty sector, the load would be virtually instantaneous (1 second or less), but if you were jumping into a stronghold, or dense roid cluster in the path of a large convoy, the loadtime would be increased to 4-5 seconds (not more than the average player would need anyway) Mind you, the point is not to hold the players up, but to eliminate oddities in gameplay caused by significant high-end speed outliers. Put the bots on the same system, and you have a much more realism and continuity in travel.
The Problem:
When making a jump, different players and characters have different travel times. Players with a slow connection take longer to come out the other end of a jump than players with a fast connection, and NPCs come out instantaneously. This makes it difficult for a player with a slower connection chase or break pursuit from a player with a faster connection, and of course the NPCs escape on the other side from the players, or thier SFs overtake and are waiting when you finish the jump.
Of course, you can't just make a jump take as long as the person with the slowest connection, because that would slow things down too far and make travel a chore for everyone... what you can do, is add a governor to the jump time that would begin to level the high end of the playing field.
The Governor:
Make all jumps take 2-5 seconds plus any additional loading time required... if that's not enough to make a difference, make it longer. Accompany it with a cool vortex-tunneling animation to alleviate the tension/boredom of the lengthened jumps.
NPCs would give you five seconds to get out the other side, before emerging, giving you the opportunity to chase/evade them, players would be more even in navigation ability, and the universe has one less unrealistic and annoying quirk.
of course, long-haul timed missions should be adjusted to give more time.
EDIT (reconsideration):
Perhaps sectors could be flagged at any given time as to the amount of data they will require to fully load, and send that value to the clients, which adjust the load time governor accordingly (bots would use this system as well) so if you were, say, jumping into an empty sector, the load would be virtually instantaneous (1 second or less), but if you were jumping into a stronghold, or dense roid cluster in the path of a large convoy, the loadtime would be increased to 4-5 seconds (not more than the average player would need anyway) Mind you, the point is not to hold the players up, but to eliminate oddities in gameplay caused by significant high-end speed outliers. Put the bots on the same system, and you have a much more realism and continuity in travel.
Suggested this about 15 months ago, i'll try dig up the thread later, but this gets my yep!
I reckon a better idea would be to *simulate* the load times of someone with an _average_ ping, (around 90ms, imo, but I reckon the devs would have a much better idea at an average ping).
The only real problem with this is that theres more than high ping or bad connection that can effect load times, large inventories, lots of actvity in the sector you are jumping to (notice the difference bewteen an enmpty hop, and a empty sector with a queen in it, for example) ect ect ect, sooo, although I agree it would be nice for the npc traders/strikeforces to have a *load* time, I dont really think it should be imposed on players.
I reckon a better idea would be to *simulate* the load times of someone with an _average_ ping, (around 90ms, imo, but I reckon the devs would have a much better idea at an average ping).
The only real problem with this is that theres more than high ping or bad connection that can effect load times, large inventories, lots of actvity in the sector you are jumping to (notice the difference bewteen an enmpty hop, and a empty sector with a queen in it, for example) ect ect ect, sooo, although I agree it would be nice for the npc traders/strikeforces to have a *load* time, I dont really think it should be imposed on players.
Nice - I was recently thinking about this. I absolutely agree - it is somewhat borked that people (and bots) with slightly better connections get HUGE advantages over those with slower connections. A second or two difference is ok, but sometimes people will be chasing me and they'll disappear in the wormhole for ten or fifteen seconds. Its also a pain when you're chasing bots.
i agree with yoda's last point, it would be better if NPCs had an artaficial load time, than to try and make a universal jump buffer to hide load-time differences.
Yeah, my internet is quite iradic, I'd strongly approve of this.
-Calder
-Calder
Yes to the animation.
Different jumps could take different amounts of time.
Different jumps could take different amounts of time.
Yeah, my race winnings are based mainly on my low ping, and not any real skill in racing. I get into and out of sectors faster than anyone else besides the devs, I think. I suppose those that like to chase me would LOVE this little feature.
I hear ya Lebs, I hear ya.
:P
:P
Deleted a severely off topic post and response to it.
Anywho, moving back onto the topic, I really like this idea to keep the bots more player-like.
Anywho, moving back onto the topic, I really like this idea to keep the bots more player-like.
It gets particularly painful for CtC where they actually have F1 race car engines and we have Pintos. Add the sector load times and it's sometimes impossible to catch up.
So, I'm all for this.
Oh. And, NO!
Geez. It takes forever already to go one point to another in space, we dont need any more artificial delays.
If your net connection sucks, well, it sucks. Mine sucks at times (customs officials nowadays take forever to process packets). But, tough luck.
I just want for bots to get a sucky-er connection because it's just not fair that they dont have any penalty whatsoever.
So, I'm all for this.
Oh. And, NO!
Geez. It takes forever already to go one point to another in space, we dont need any more artificial delays.
If your net connection sucks, well, it sucks. Mine sucks at times (customs officials nowadays take forever to process packets). But, tough luck.
I just want for bots to get a sucky-er connection because it's just not fair that they dont have any penalty whatsoever.
Loading could maybe allready start at the moment you activate, while the jump-out animation is still playing. That would save some time.
Any devs want to comment on exactly what gets loaded during sector jumps?
Are the roids and stations pre-programmed in the game or are those objects loaded from the server?
Are the roids and stations pre-programmed in the game or are those objects loaded from the server?
Yes to bots having "load times". It's hard to escort a convoy when it's already jumping out again when you've barely jumped in.
No Way in Hell for doing the same to players. Too many variables to juggle, and not fair on those lucky to live close to the servers and/or have better ISPs (I'm not in either of those two cases, BTW)It's called Luck of the Draw, people, learn to live with it instead of whining about it and making ridiculous demands.
No Way in Hell for doing the same to players. Too many variables to juggle, and not fair on those lucky to live close to the servers and/or have better ISPs (I'm not in either of those two cases, BTW)It's called Luck of the Draw, people, learn to live with it instead of whining about it and making ridiculous demands.
The textures and such for the stations and roids are part of the client software on your computer. The actual type and position are loaded from the server afaik. Ships in the sector are loaded when you enter, as is the entire contents of your inventory. You can help keep load times down by keeping your inventory tidy.
I'm on the West Coast, btw, and my load times are often less than a second at 80-ish pings. I would be quite annoyed to have an arbitrary 5 second load time.
I'm on the West Coast, btw, and my load times are often less than a second at 80-ish pings. I would be quite annoyed to have an arbitrary 5 second load time.
if you think 5 is too much, make it 3...
Yes, I understand that imposing an arbitrary load time on players would be aggrivating to an extent for the players with high speeds, but we're only talking a few seconds! Most players are going to have to wait a few second anyway, and this would just help keep the pace more even and regular.
I'm not saying we should bother trying to really 'balance' the load times - that's too much work, and wouldn't work out anyway, but putting a minimum cap on 3 seconds would help shave down the highest outliers (sorry Leebs) to somewhere in the vacinity of the majority of the playerbase.
And yes, giving different sectors different load times would help.
Yes, I understand that imposing an arbitrary load time on players would be aggrivating to an extent for the players with high speeds, but we're only talking a few seconds! Most players are going to have to wait a few second anyway, and this would just help keep the pace more even and regular.
I'm not saying we should bother trying to really 'balance' the load times - that's too much work, and wouldn't work out anyway, but putting a minimum cap on 3 seconds would help shave down the highest outliers (sorry Leebs) to somewhere in the vacinity of the majority of the playerbase.
And yes, giving different sectors different load times would help.
I'm all for giving players a bit of game sponsored lag. Not much (3 seconds sounds pretty good), but a bit. I don't agree with those (like Jex) who say that "just dealing with it" is the best option. In fact I would even go so far as saying the same! Seriously... people would get used to it.
If its a quick job to implement it, then I'm all for a touch more fair play...
If its a quick job to implement it, then I'm all for a touch more fair play...
I agree it should only be for bots since the bots are instantaneous.
I 2nd what kix said
haxxor bots, no more instajumps. Give them more player like load times, i leave to the devs to come up with a solution...
If you're going to give the bots player-like load times, you also need to give the ludicrously low-pinged players player-like load times, as in bring them down closer to the norm. I'm not saying ti should be much, and depending on how the loading is done (and the animations worked) you could be left with virtually no noticable wait.
Perhaps sectors could be flagged at any given time as to the amount of data they will require to fully load, and send that value to the clients, which adjust the load time governor accordingly (bots would use this system as well) so if you were, say, jumping into an empty sector, the load would be virtually instantaneous (1 second or less), but if you were jumping into a stronghold, or dense roid cluster in the path of a large convoy, the loadtime would be increased to 4-5 seconds (not more than the average player would need anyway) Mind you, the point is not to hold the players up, but to eliminate oddities in gameplay caused by significant high-end speed outliers. Put the bots on the same system, and you have a much more realism and continuity in travel.
Of course, if you have a slow connection or a high ping, you'll still be behind the pack, and there's nothing the game can be expected to do about it, but at least it will put the top end by speed of the playerbase on a level.
Perhaps sectors could be flagged at any given time as to the amount of data they will require to fully load, and send that value to the clients, which adjust the load time governor accordingly (bots would use this system as well) so if you were, say, jumping into an empty sector, the load would be virtually instantaneous (1 second or less), but if you were jumping into a stronghold, or dense roid cluster in the path of a large convoy, the loadtime would be increased to 4-5 seconds (not more than the average player would need anyway) Mind you, the point is not to hold the players up, but to eliminate oddities in gameplay caused by significant high-end speed outliers. Put the bots on the same system, and you have a much more realism and continuity in travel.
Of course, if you have a slow connection or a high ping, you'll still be behind the pack, and there's nothing the game can be expected to do about it, but at least it will put the top end by speed of the playerbase on a level.