Forums » Suggestions
Snipers- a discussion
This is basically about railguns, their speed, their damage, and the fact that they DO have autoaim.
Most FPS (dont hurt me for this comparison) games balance sniper weapons by giving them full damage only when "scoped".
What I think would be a good idea is a special variation of railgun which hits INSTANTLY. I know some of you are thinking "but isn't that just a beam cannon?" No. Railguns have autoaim, and are still reasonably slow- and that's why they're crap. Because autoaim is so easily evaded at the range railguns are intended for, intentionally or otherwise. You can't lead a target at that range in this game because of the 3Dness, 3 dimensions to dodge in. So autoaim or not, you're not going to get anywhere fighting at range. The only way to provide support from afar is with homing warheads in this game.
What I was thinking of was a new sort of weapon, one which takes a little time to charge before unleashing a death ray at the target. The obstructions to this are multiple- the first, CrippledPidgeon's suggestions for missiles and the lack of response to them, leading me to believe that it isn't possible for a weapon to require a target lock for a period of time before firing. The second, that given a weapon which does high damage at long range, and there not being any ingame method to restrict good "snipers" from hitting repeatedly and rapidly with said weapon, there's going to be one hell of a balance issue. The third is that if there is a weapon which does major damage at long range, and people can simple run the hell away whenever they feel like it, there won't be any dogfighting any more.
And then we see the charge cannon, which is 24-carat crap.
There has been a suggestion in the past to create an L-port, non-crappy charge cannon by making its firing speed charge along with its damage.
If its possible to make the charge non-uniform...
Example- Samus' Power Beam. 3 distinct stages to it- basic, rapidfire tiny shots, an intermediate charge which does decent damage, and a full charge which hurts like hell.
So take the charge cannon, and make it L-port. Without charging, it does crap all. Hold it for a while, and you can release it as a beam of doom after it passes a certain threshold. Hugely visible, so as to make the ship that fires it extremely conspicuous. But then there's the issue of tracking. This can be solved through its weight- 5,000+++kg to make it unwieldy even on a SkyCommand, and to ensure that any ship that mounts and can use it can't simply up and leave if theyre spotted.
And finally, give it "tunnel vision" by locking the zoom (ie. making it unbindable, unalterable) and requiring that you use it before firing. Give it a maximum range of 1000-1200m, similar to the railguns we have now, and make it RAINBOW.
(L) MegaCharge Cannon
Raw: 800 damage/shot, 0.15 min. repeat, zero autoaim, 180m/s speed.
Charged: 3000 damage/shot, 3 seconds to charge, zero autoaim, instant hit. Requires zoom to release.
5000kg weight.
So, given that rambling, does this kind of weapon have a place on "small" ships?
Most FPS (dont hurt me for this comparison) games balance sniper weapons by giving them full damage only when "scoped".
What I think would be a good idea is a special variation of railgun which hits INSTANTLY. I know some of you are thinking "but isn't that just a beam cannon?" No. Railguns have autoaim, and are still reasonably slow- and that's why they're crap. Because autoaim is so easily evaded at the range railguns are intended for, intentionally or otherwise. You can't lead a target at that range in this game because of the 3Dness, 3 dimensions to dodge in. So autoaim or not, you're not going to get anywhere fighting at range. The only way to provide support from afar is with homing warheads in this game.
What I was thinking of was a new sort of weapon, one which takes a little time to charge before unleashing a death ray at the target. The obstructions to this are multiple- the first, CrippledPidgeon's suggestions for missiles and the lack of response to them, leading me to believe that it isn't possible for a weapon to require a target lock for a period of time before firing. The second, that given a weapon which does high damage at long range, and there not being any ingame method to restrict good "snipers" from hitting repeatedly and rapidly with said weapon, there's going to be one hell of a balance issue. The third is that if there is a weapon which does major damage at long range, and people can simple run the hell away whenever they feel like it, there won't be any dogfighting any more.
And then we see the charge cannon, which is 24-carat crap.
There has been a suggestion in the past to create an L-port, non-crappy charge cannon by making its firing speed charge along with its damage.
If its possible to make the charge non-uniform...
Example- Samus' Power Beam. 3 distinct stages to it- basic, rapidfire tiny shots, an intermediate charge which does decent damage, and a full charge which hurts like hell.
So take the charge cannon, and make it L-port. Without charging, it does crap all. Hold it for a while, and you can release it as a beam of doom after it passes a certain threshold. Hugely visible, so as to make the ship that fires it extremely conspicuous. But then there's the issue of tracking. This can be solved through its weight- 5,000+++kg to make it unwieldy even on a SkyCommand, and to ensure that any ship that mounts and can use it can't simply up and leave if theyre spotted.
And finally, give it "tunnel vision" by locking the zoom (ie. making it unbindable, unalterable) and requiring that you use it before firing. Give it a maximum range of 1000-1200m, similar to the railguns we have now, and make it RAINBOW.
(L) MegaCharge Cannon
Raw: 800 damage/shot, 0.15 min. repeat, zero autoaim, 180m/s speed.
Charged: 3000 damage/shot, 3 seconds to charge, zero autoaim, instant hit. Requires zoom to release.
5000kg weight.
So, given that rambling, does this kind of weapon have a place on "small" ships?
Awsome.
what if....you had to do a mission for it? you think the levi-hunt mission is enough? hunt the levi, kill it, and get somekickass weapon too..
what if....you had to do a mission for it? you think the levi-hunt mission is enough? hunt the levi, kill it, and get somekickass weapon too..
i'm not sure why you think the railgun should hit instantly. personal;y i think it is prety good as is (especialy the advanced version).
the problem with snipers in VO is that there realy isn't any good way to represent them. Because of the open nature of space it's kinda' hard to have a good sniper. and in all honmesty seekign missiles would be the best solution for long range combat.
i'm not sure how i feal about your charage cannon idea. personaly i like the idea of a L port beam weapon that has a huge firing delay, but is extreemly damaging, but i'm not sure if i like the stats ypou perposed (and i don't have a counter-perposal at this time)
the problem with snipers in VO is that there realy isn't any good way to represent them. Because of the open nature of space it's kinda' hard to have a good sniper. and in all honmesty seekign missiles would be the best solution for long range combat.
i'm not sure how i feal about your charage cannon idea. personaly i like the idea of a L port beam weapon that has a huge firing delay, but is extreemly damaging, but i'm not sure if i like the stats ypou perposed (and i don't have a counter-perposal at this time)
No zamzx. If it's possible to solo-kill the levi, or kill it with less than about 20 people, then it's broken and not working as designed.
My idea for the stats:
Long-Range Tactical Railgun
Large Port weapon
Damage/Shot: 4000
Speed: 1200 m/s
Energy: 200
Delay: 6 seconds
Mass: 7000kg
Splash Radius: 0
Detonation: Contact
Ammo: 8
Fuel/Lifetime: N/A
Level: 9/6/10/4/0 (or something equally obscene, like a 50 levi kills badge)
Range: 3500-4200m
Anyway, as you can tell, this weapon would be hella hard to use at anything BUT long range, since you really don't want to drain that much energy in a brawl, or be weighed down by an extra 7000kg.
Now, I know it's somewhat unbalanced, but it'd make things a LOT more interesting, since it'd be pretty easy for someone to, say, hide in the Ice, Yo cluster in Sedina D-14, and pick off anything that comes close. On the other hand, with a maximum of 16 shots (if you're using a 2-L Port ship), you really don't want to be that far out, since the trip back would not only take a while, but be INCREDIBLY dangerous, again because of the 7000kg of weapons on board.
Also, with enough warning, you could theoretically evade this, much like a real-life sniper. However, it's fast enough that unless you're really twitchy (think full-blown Meth high), you're not going to see it coming unless you're expecting it.
Long-Range Tactical Railgun
Large Port weapon
Damage/Shot: 4000
Speed: 1200 m/s
Energy: 200
Delay: 6 seconds
Mass: 7000kg
Splash Radius: 0
Detonation: Contact
Ammo: 8
Fuel/Lifetime: N/A
Level: 9/6/10/4/0 (or something equally obscene, like a 50 levi kills badge)
Range: 3500-4200m
Anyway, as you can tell, this weapon would be hella hard to use at anything BUT long range, since you really don't want to drain that much energy in a brawl, or be weighed down by an extra 7000kg.
Now, I know it's somewhat unbalanced, but it'd make things a LOT more interesting, since it'd be pretty easy for someone to, say, hide in the Ice, Yo cluster in Sedina D-14, and pick off anything that comes close. On the other hand, with a maximum of 16 shots (if you're using a 2-L Port ship), you really don't want to be that far out, since the trip back would not only take a while, but be INCREDIBLY dangerous, again because of the 7000kg of weapons on board.
Also, with enough warning, you could theoretically evade this, much like a real-life sniper. However, it's fast enough that unless you're really twitchy (think full-blown Meth high), you're not going to see it coming unless you're expecting it.
okay, well the way I see it, the biggest trouble with long-range rail sniping right now is that you can't achieve accuracy at anything above 600-800m, because, quite simply, the game engine can only send vectors with a certian degree of accuracy - that is to say, that if you're at 850m, sitting dead still, and fire a railgun DIRECTLY at another dead-still ship (using the zoom, so you know your aim is perfect) you'll still miss, because the precision of the vector gets cut at some decimal.
As for the auto-aim and shot velocity being insufficient to hit a moving target, this should be compensated for by INCREASING the velocity of the railgun, not by making it instantaneous. Players should always need to lead their target be some margin to hit, albiet a very small margin with the railgun. If you have the element of suprise now, you can already match velocity with the target vessel before lining up your shot, and the only thing standing in the way of a direct hit is the current distance-inaccuracy.
If you increase the speed of the railgun substantially, the lead you need will be shorter, and the chances of hitting greater.
Increasing the range would be nice, but again, it won't do much for us unless you can also increase the accuracy.
Of course, the best solution to the difficulty of hitting a moving object in the 3D grid would be to have a more complex targeting and ranging HUD function: something that feeds you their speed, relative direction and velocity, RoC, etc... and supply a ranging lead that helps you to visualize a shot intercept. (compare to the cannon HUDmode of a modern fighter aircraft - targeting 'vortex' and calculated intercept point).
An aiming reticle and HUD targeting data should only be available for the railgun when you're zoomed in; don't "take away" the zoomout functionality from players using the railgun - just make it a lot harder and less practical for them to try and hit anything with it. There shouldn't be an auto-aim function on the railgun... at all.
above targeting suggestion would be a very difficult thing for the devs to implement though, considering its really only to make one specialized weapon... don't count on it happening.
While we're at it... a question for the DEVS:
Would it be possible to increase the vector accuracy of *just* the railguns/future long-range weapons? or practical to increase it for *all* weapons? and if either is true, how difficult would it be?
As for the auto-aim and shot velocity being insufficient to hit a moving target, this should be compensated for by INCREASING the velocity of the railgun, not by making it instantaneous. Players should always need to lead their target be some margin to hit, albiet a very small margin with the railgun. If you have the element of suprise now, you can already match velocity with the target vessel before lining up your shot, and the only thing standing in the way of a direct hit is the current distance-inaccuracy.
If you increase the speed of the railgun substantially, the lead you need will be shorter, and the chances of hitting greater.
Increasing the range would be nice, but again, it won't do much for us unless you can also increase the accuracy.
Of course, the best solution to the difficulty of hitting a moving object in the 3D grid would be to have a more complex targeting and ranging HUD function: something that feeds you their speed, relative direction and velocity, RoC, etc... and supply a ranging lead that helps you to visualize a shot intercept. (compare to the cannon HUDmode of a modern fighter aircraft - targeting 'vortex' and calculated intercept point).
An aiming reticle and HUD targeting data should only be available for the railgun when you're zoomed in; don't "take away" the zoomout functionality from players using the railgun - just make it a lot harder and less practical for them to try and hit anything with it. There shouldn't be an auto-aim function on the railgun... at all.
above targeting suggestion would be a very difficult thing for the devs to implement though, considering its really only to make one specialized weapon... don't count on it happening.
While we're at it... a question for the DEVS:
Would it be possible to increase the vector accuracy of *just* the railguns/future long-range weapons? or practical to increase it for *all* weapons? and if either is true, how difficult would it be?
>While we're at it... a question for the DEVS:
>Would it be possible to increase the vector accuracy of *just* the railguns/future
>long-range weapons? or practical to increase it for *all* weapons? and if either is
>true, how difficult would it be?
ad what is the curent acuracy? i had untill now assumed that it was precise enough to not cause a problem at any reasonable range.
>Would it be possible to increase the vector accuracy of *just* the railguns/future
>long-range weapons? or practical to increase it for *all* weapons? and if either is
>true, how difficult would it be?
ad what is the curent acuracy? i had untill now assumed that it was precise enough to not cause a problem at any reasonable range.
Rouge, not solo kill, more like...it takes 3 creates of samo to get the rails, along with beating the levi mission (you do it in a group, see?)