Forums » Suggestions
Specifically, the kill counts, the death counts, and the related badges.
Not now, a little later. Once there's something other than number-worshiping to insite conflict, but the damn things really got to go.
Not now, a little later. Once there's something other than number-worshiping to insite conflict, but the damn things really got to go.
i know what (or who?) we could get rid of!
NO GENKA THIS IS BAD!!!!!!!
NO GENKA THIS IS BAD!!!!!!!
I concur with Genka here.
oh oh and lets get rid of all ships and weapons except for the standard Gov Bus!!!
Then we can all be a little bit more like genka!
Seeing as how this is what its really about anyway.
Then we can all be a little bit more like genka!
Seeing as how this is what its really about anyway.
He does have a point, though...
BoxCarRacer, that argument is the Godwin of the MMO world. Quit posting it. Seriously.
To be honest I agree, perhaps leave the kill count but take away the death and related badges. Honestly I dont wanna know how many times I screwed up, As any player does I wanna beleive im the best in PVP and I dont wanna know how many times I died to reach 70000 kills or whatever your number may be.
i think kills/deaths should definately be tracked for the perpuses of combat badges. but perhaps how they are displayed chould be restructured.
for example:
count all kills PC or NPC by nation. and count hive bot kills. and display these numbers but not how many deaths you have or specificly how many Pks you have.
for example:
count all kills PC or NPC by nation. and count hive bot kills. and display these numbers but not how many deaths you have or specificly how many Pks you have.
you want to track bot kills, but not Pk's? Since when is the number of Bot kills anything more than the amount of time spent playing, times some factor.
I'd like to see other goals in the future. But until they come, this is space-quake. It does absolutely no good to discuss this at this point, since those goals are a LONG way down the road. I'd like to have them in-hand before such a drastic change was made.
I'd like to see other goals in the future. But until they come, this is space-quake. It does absolutely no good to discuss this at this point, since those goals are a LONG way down the road. I'd like to have them in-hand before such a drastic change was made.
genka if you have read that other thread, Guild wants to make the whole game more like WoW, where basically every little number chasing scam will get you a special item/weapon/equipment/etc.
i mean, i personally agree with you, the 'push the bar up' thing is completely .. fills me with the same passion as a wet lump of mud.
but you need to realize who you are dealing with here. people who cosplay, furry fan fic readers, otaku anime nuts, 400 pound child eating monstrosities, furry fan fic writers, people who go to star trek conventions and ask patrick stewart to justify technical errors in episode 27. idolizers of warfare and militarism, people disappointed that the history channel started showing something besides hitler programs, war gamers, civil war re-enactors, etc.
the entire reason d'etre for these type of games is statistics. numbers. bars. push the bar up, push the numbers up. it is a great substitute for the real world, in which so many people are judged by numbers such as income, factory output, corporate reports, christmas bonuses, sexual encounters, warfare, titles, degrees, and grades.
in fact, the entire school system is little more than preparation training for MMO, which is little more than propaganda and training for the military industrial complex.
it goes like this.
'get your numbers up' in school
'get your numbers up' in the MMO
'get your numbers up' in gun training
'get your numbers up' for the corporate quarter report
'get your numbers up' in your kill ratio
Who is a hero in modern society? The person with the highest numbers. Not the nurse or doctor who saves patients. In fact, doctors are only admired because they are rich, not because they save people. Who is admired is the A-10 pilot that blows up 10 tanks, the corporate office that increases profits 10%, the CEO that is worth a billion in stock, the porn actor who can set the record for the number of scenes performed in a day, the branch manager who can increase 'producitivity' and 'efficiency' by a certain number, the fastest computer, the best deal, the most the quickest the best shoveling down our gullet like a crazed animal.
Anyways, Vendetta as-it-is is rather an accident. An odd little twitcher where funny shit can happen. The MMO stuff has always been on the back burner for lack of funds and small staff. But it is now coming to the front burner with the new tools they just developed.
In a year you will probably hate Vendetta. The very idea of 'balance' will disappear as extensive hierarchies start forming based on guild and social status. Numbers will be the key to this system. The whole idea of 'fun' for you might be something creative, unusual, artistic, sneaky, skilled, etc. But the whole idea of 'fun' for 'hard core gamers' is to push numbers up. That is what online games are made for; hard core gamers. Not you.
Face the facts, you dirty hippy.
Get a haircut, get a job, and join the system. Get your numbers up so the other kids won't laugh at you and you can get a wife.
The End.
i mean, i personally agree with you, the 'push the bar up' thing is completely .. fills me with the same passion as a wet lump of mud.
but you need to realize who you are dealing with here. people who cosplay, furry fan fic readers, otaku anime nuts, 400 pound child eating monstrosities, furry fan fic writers, people who go to star trek conventions and ask patrick stewart to justify technical errors in episode 27. idolizers of warfare and militarism, people disappointed that the history channel started showing something besides hitler programs, war gamers, civil war re-enactors, etc.
the entire reason d'etre for these type of games is statistics. numbers. bars. push the bar up, push the numbers up. it is a great substitute for the real world, in which so many people are judged by numbers such as income, factory output, corporate reports, christmas bonuses, sexual encounters, warfare, titles, degrees, and grades.
in fact, the entire school system is little more than preparation training for MMO, which is little more than propaganda and training for the military industrial complex.
it goes like this.
'get your numbers up' in school
'get your numbers up' in the MMO
'get your numbers up' in gun training
'get your numbers up' for the corporate quarter report
'get your numbers up' in your kill ratio
Who is a hero in modern society? The person with the highest numbers. Not the nurse or doctor who saves patients. In fact, doctors are only admired because they are rich, not because they save people. Who is admired is the A-10 pilot that blows up 10 tanks, the corporate office that increases profits 10%, the CEO that is worth a billion in stock, the porn actor who can set the record for the number of scenes performed in a day, the branch manager who can increase 'producitivity' and 'efficiency' by a certain number, the fastest computer, the best deal, the most the quickest the best shoveling down our gullet like a crazed animal.
Anyways, Vendetta as-it-is is rather an accident. An odd little twitcher where funny shit can happen. The MMO stuff has always been on the back burner for lack of funds and small staff. But it is now coming to the front burner with the new tools they just developed.
In a year you will probably hate Vendetta. The very idea of 'balance' will disappear as extensive hierarchies start forming based on guild and social status. Numbers will be the key to this system. The whole idea of 'fun' for you might be something creative, unusual, artistic, sneaky, skilled, etc. But the whole idea of 'fun' for 'hard core gamers' is to push numbers up. That is what online games are made for; hard core gamers. Not you.
Face the facts, you dirty hippy.
Get a haircut, get a job, and join the system. Get your numbers up so the other kids won't laugh at you and you can get a wife.
The End.
Shapenaji,
my sugestion was aimed at creating a more imersive RPG enviroment as such i split the reported numbers by faction rather than player v non player. i have no opposition to the game tracking PKs but i think it would be interesting (especialy given the dev's stated objectives regarding NPC and PC interchangability) if the charcter info nscreen didn't tell you how many of your Itani kills were PCs but rather told you at of your 2,083 kills 83 were Itani, and 2,000 were hive bots.
my sugestion was aimed at creating a more imersive RPG enviroment as such i split the reported numbers by faction rather than player v non player. i have no opposition to the game tracking PKs but i think it would be interesting (especialy given the dev's stated objectives regarding NPC and PC interchangability) if the charcter info nscreen didn't tell you how many of your Itani kills were PCs but rather told you at of your 2,083 kills 83 were Itani, and 2,000 were hive bots.
ah, I see what you're saying, makes more sense now.
As far as ananzi's doomsday predictions. I don't think it ever has to get that bad. Having some things based on statistics does not require that the entire game goes in that direction.
Its been suggested before, but, if there were ways of interacting with the backstory. Events are held, ones which become more complex
as the tools to structure them do. Suddenly people are telling a story, and I think that's more intriguing than any badge worship.
As far as ananzi's doomsday predictions. I don't think it ever has to get that bad. Having some things based on statistics does not require that the entire game goes in that direction.
Its been suggested before, but, if there were ways of interacting with the backstory. Events are held, ones which become more complex
as the tools to structure them do. Suddenly people are telling a story, and I think that's more intriguing than any badge worship.
Eh. We all like statistics. A lot of players I know kept playing because they want to pad up their stats. Heck, this game has no content BUT stats.
Even if you add lots of content, there are a lot of people who still want to have stats. Just look at all the sports fans out there to understand that, while one can be a purist and all and love the game for its beauty, nothing beats sitting down with your buddies and talk shop about stats all day.
Finally an aside :
Genka speaks : Not now, a little later. Once there's something other than number-worshiping to insite conflict, but the damn things really got to go.
Tee hee hee. 50credits to those who find the speeling error (sic). A certain French proverb about a petard and some hoisting enters into my mind. Don't look at me, I make mistakes all day.
Even if you add lots of content, there are a lot of people who still want to have stats. Just look at all the sports fans out there to understand that, while one can be a purist and all and love the game for its beauty, nothing beats sitting down with your buddies and talk shop about stats all day.
Finally an aside :
Genka speaks : Not now, a little later. Once there's something other than number-worshiping to insite conflict, but the damn things really got to go.
Tee hee hee. 50credits to those who find the speeling error (sic). A certain French proverb about a petard and some hoisting enters into my mind. Don't look at me, I make mistakes all day.
Shape, don't be a newb. It does a WORLD of good to discuss this now, when pretty much everyone agrees that it's way too early to do something about the stat-chasing.
This way, when the topic comes up again in a year, I can be all pompous and say that I've been clamoring for this for a year. Oh, and, well, it kinda layes a history for the idea, making it sound less extreme and more or less well-discussed by that point, so there isn't a crazy raging battle over it later. Makes for an easier transition. But that's just a side-effect to me getting a good excuse to be almost as pompous as shapie.
PS:
softy, just for you:
UR SO CLVR
This way, when the topic comes up again in a year, I can be all pompous and say that I've been clamoring for this for a year. Oh, and, well, it kinda layes a history for the idea, making it sound less extreme and more or less well-discussed by that point, so there isn't a crazy raging battle over it later. Makes for an easier transition. But that's just a side-effect to me getting a good excuse to be almost as pompous as shapie.
PS:
softy, just for you:
UR SO CLVR
this game has a lot besides stats.
0. running away from people in your moth, living at 1% hull
1. capture the spike
2. find your own little mining spot and get big $$$
3. killing hot shit players with lightning mines
4. killing proms with lightning mines
5. camping a station during a race with lightning mines
6. putting a bunch of heliocene ore in a big bubble, and hiding lightning mines inside of it
7. one-hitting someone with quad rails
8. popping a vet from 1000m with a single rail shot as they try to flee
9. getting ganked while you are typing
10. ganking someone else while they are typing
11. /msg someone intentionally so they will type back to you, and killing them while they do so
12. blowing up a cap ship
13. rocket spamming hive bots
14. capture the cargo (Well back when the reward for winning actually mattered)
15. concussion mine launching
16. hiding your bus inside the little holes in the rotating station part, seeing how long before you get dizzy
17. killing swarm spammers
18. tube racing
19. tube racing + weapons
20. hive bots attacking cap ships
21. killing someone w a cap ship turret that youd never be able to otherwise
22. deneb run racing
23. trying to kill racers in the deneb run
24. group mining
25. writing words with dropped cargo (before the interface change made it extremely difficult to 1-drop repeatedly)
26. swarm fireworks
27. crack botting
28. using asteroids to get away from pirates
29. using asteroids in combat
etc etc etc
0. running away from people in your moth, living at 1% hull
1. capture the spike
2. find your own little mining spot and get big $$$
3. killing hot shit players with lightning mines
4. killing proms with lightning mines
5. camping a station during a race with lightning mines
6. putting a bunch of heliocene ore in a big bubble, and hiding lightning mines inside of it
7. one-hitting someone with quad rails
8. popping a vet from 1000m with a single rail shot as they try to flee
9. getting ganked while you are typing
10. ganking someone else while they are typing
11. /msg someone intentionally so they will type back to you, and killing them while they do so
12. blowing up a cap ship
13. rocket spamming hive bots
14. capture the cargo (Well back when the reward for winning actually mattered)
15. concussion mine launching
16. hiding your bus inside the little holes in the rotating station part, seeing how long before you get dizzy
17. killing swarm spammers
18. tube racing
19. tube racing + weapons
20. hive bots attacking cap ships
21. killing someone w a cap ship turret that youd never be able to otherwise
22. deneb run racing
23. trying to kill racers in the deneb run
24. group mining
25. writing words with dropped cargo (before the interface change made it extremely difficult to 1-drop repeatedly)
26. swarm fireworks
27. crack botting
28. using asteroids to get away from pirates
29. using asteroids in combat
etc etc etc
Genka, I would reply to the pompous remark in detail, except that, I get the feeling that when you target me, people seem to like me more. So... thanks?
As far as your actual point,
I don't see what alternative you're suggesting. You don't actually spend any time working on stats, RP'ing, or even moving.
So you're not really discussing anything right now, you're just stating that you have a beef with the ego-tripping. Don't read me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of Cynicism, but its rather hard to establish goals with that as your base ideology.
As far as your actual point,
I don't see what alternative you're suggesting. You don't actually spend any time working on stats, RP'ing, or even moving.
So you're not really discussing anything right now, you're just stating that you have a beef with the ego-tripping. Don't read me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of Cynicism, but its rather hard to establish goals with that as your base ideology.
Shape, I think he simply wants to be able to ressurect the thread when the topic comes up seriously in the future (and a year might be about right). Ananzi, you spent too much time typing all of those and are hereby charged with having too much free time. ;) Sad thing is that I think you hit the nail on the head with the activities list though... At least it is funny in an ironic sort of way.
Anyway, I really like Lord Q's idea of only displaying kills by nation/faction/hive. I would like to add that it would be nifty in the future to also be able to keep track of kills by guild. :)
Anyway, I really like Lord Q's idea of only displaying kills by nation/faction/hive. I would like to add that it would be nifty in the future to also be able to keep track of kills by guild. :)
I'm fine with getting rid of deaths. I want to keep kills though, even though I don't intend for it to be much more important than like.. the stat that tells you how much time you've spent in-game (via the website).
We can probably find more interesting things to apply the badges to.
Yes, we will always have stats of one kind or other, but I don't want them to be the focus at all. This isn't supposed to be progress-quest ( http://www.progressquest.com/ ). I still haven't played WoW, so I'm honestly not sure how similar it is to what I want to do.
We can probably find more interesting things to apply the badges to.
Yes, we will always have stats of one kind or other, but I don't want them to be the focus at all. This isn't supposed to be progress-quest ( http://www.progressquest.com/ ). I still haven't played WoW, so I'm honestly not sure how similar it is to what I want to do.
NO!!! DO NOT GET RID OF DEATHS!
In fact, track them more specifically as killed bybots and killed by players... It's already a given that deaths don't really mean anything, but they are a nice statistic to have in any case... Kills alone only show how much time you've spent playing.
Keep deaths... and stop taking suggestions from the troll!
In fact, track them more specifically as killed bybots and killed by players... It's already a given that deaths don't really mean anything, but they are a nice statistic to have in any case... Kills alone only show how much time you've spent playing.
Keep deaths... and stop taking suggestions from the troll!
It's not just the troll, a lot of people have suggested it. Maybe I'll keep it as a stat (it'll certainly always be kept server-side by us, for our own use) but not make it visible to other players?