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This whole conversation reminds me of when the strike forces were in their infancy. Simply bumping another player would record as them damaging you and strike forces would attack them while you sat back and watched. Or harassing players by turning off auto-aim and start firing across their bows. Eventually they'd fire back you dodge into the shot, triggering the strike forces.
In that case, who engaged who? The person trying to provoke the fight, or the person who responded? I'm threatening to shoot someone, but apparently I haven't engaged them. And when they return fire and I put myself into their shots, did they engage me?
Or here's a very common situation. Player 1 fires on and destroys player 2 in four consecutive times that they've met each other in space. Later, player 2 is minding his own business when player 1 approaches him in a threatening manner, and player 2 preemptively fires to protect himself. Now what if player 1 had damaged himself to 49%? Would player 2 be considered a dishonorable fighter for trying to defend himself against someone who was hostile in the past?
Or what if there's a furball and one player drops some lightning mines into the middle of the battlefield. The mines destroy several players as they're fighting other people. Is that player dishonorable if he kills someone who's below 50%, or is he actually honorable for coming to the aid of an ally? What if he's from a different faction as the ally, and accidentally destroys his ally with the lightning mine?
Or maybe I'm messing around with a person from a different faction and accidentally press the mouse button. Have I engaged them?
With a system like this, unfortunately, many of these questions are very subjective. You're trying to measure a person's intent to do something, and unless VO can read minds, I'm afraid that a system that deals in simple absolutes would be very easily exploitable.
In that case, who engaged who? The person trying to provoke the fight, or the person who responded? I'm threatening to shoot someone, but apparently I haven't engaged them. And when they return fire and I put myself into their shots, did they engage me?
Or here's a very common situation. Player 1 fires on and destroys player 2 in four consecutive times that they've met each other in space. Later, player 2 is minding his own business when player 1 approaches him in a threatening manner, and player 2 preemptively fires to protect himself. Now what if player 1 had damaged himself to 49%? Would player 2 be considered a dishonorable fighter for trying to defend himself against someone who was hostile in the past?
Or what if there's a furball and one player drops some lightning mines into the middle of the battlefield. The mines destroy several players as they're fighting other people. Is that player dishonorable if he kills someone who's below 50%, or is he actually honorable for coming to the aid of an ally? What if he's from a different faction as the ally, and accidentally destroys his ally with the lightning mine?
Or maybe I'm messing around with a person from a different faction and accidentally press the mouse button. Have I engaged them?
With a system like this, unfortunately, many of these questions are very subjective. You're trying to measure a person's intent to do something, and unless VO can read minds, I'm afraid that a system that deals in simple absolutes would be very easily exploitable.
In agreement with mellow here.
Besides, while I woulnd't mind if this existed as an out-of-character part of the rankings on the webpage, it would be very hard to motivate in-character, in-canon. One of vendettas nicer implementations of PvP is that fights in unmonitored sectors have no effect on faction standings. How could a ships structural damage be monitored and recorded for others to judge reliably if a fight was a honourable battle? In consensual duels close to stations, perhaps, but even then, it would seem less than realistic to me.
Besides, what nations at war set up a mutual system for knocking off each other honourably? They are usually busy trying to find ways do do it dishonourably, since that is so much more effective...
(Yes, I know, knights, samurai and even pirates throughout the ages has established similar systems. And then done everything in their might to break those rules to get the advantage. If this was hard-coded into the VO mechanics, it would impossible to do just that.)
(Thinking about it, why don't you, Renegade, establish a tradition of honourable battles in accordance with the rules you just detailed. THAT would be in-canon, realistic, and far more fun than a hard-coded set of rules. And Ion will do everything in his limited power to exploit that system :-D )
Besides, while I woulnd't mind if this existed as an out-of-character part of the rankings on the webpage, it would be very hard to motivate in-character, in-canon. One of vendettas nicer implementations of PvP is that fights in unmonitored sectors have no effect on faction standings. How could a ships structural damage be monitored and recorded for others to judge reliably if a fight was a honourable battle? In consensual duels close to stations, perhaps, but even then, it would seem less than realistic to me.
Besides, what nations at war set up a mutual system for knocking off each other honourably? They are usually busy trying to find ways do do it dishonourably, since that is so much more effective...
(Yes, I know, knights, samurai and even pirates throughout the ages has established similar systems. And then done everything in their might to break those rules to get the advantage. If this was hard-coded into the VO mechanics, it would impossible to do just that.)
(Thinking about it, why don't you, Renegade, establish a tradition of honourable battles in accordance with the rules you just detailed. THAT would be in-canon, realistic, and far more fun than a hard-coded set of rules. And Ion will do everything in his limited power to exploit that system :-D )
it used to be in effect, but i gave up at a certain point... to big of a bother to enforce, since enforcing it ends up in non honourable play as well.
Your example was already an indication of why exactly i stopped bothering.
Your example was already an indication of why exactly i stopped bothering.
Rene:
"Honorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 80% health. The first group or player that engaged will receive experience, status, and faction.
Neutral Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 50% health. Neutral kills result in moderate faction gain, but do not reward experience or status.
Dishonorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had less than 50% health. Dishonorable kills result in a loss of faction with both your alignment and the opposing alignment. Losing enough faction will cause you to fall out of favor with your alignment, and will restrict or remove any access to the rewards system."
You'd have to make it a function of not the ships health, but the difference in health levels, and also level, experience, competency, alliegance and outside interference of both players... that's a lot of factors. Besides which, there are still extenuating circumstances which would void the system...
no, I'm all for it... but just how woudl you pull it off without breaking it?
"Honorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 80% health. The first group or player that engaged will receive experience, status, and faction.
Neutral Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had greater than 50% health. Neutral kills result in moderate faction gain, but do not reward experience or status.
Dishonorable Kills: Any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target had less than 50% health. Dishonorable kills result in a loss of faction with both your alignment and the opposing alignment. Losing enough faction will cause you to fall out of favor with your alignment, and will restrict or remove any access to the rewards system."
You'd have to make it a function of not the ships health, but the difference in health levels, and also level, experience, competency, alliegance and outside interference of both players... that's a lot of factors. Besides which, there are still extenuating circumstances which would void the system...
no, I'm all for it... but just how woudl you pull it off without breaking it?
i think the game is better without a global deffinition for "honorable".
it's my understanding that most guilds (at least used to) have codes of honor, and in fact i remember huge debates over wheter or not there was an honerable way to run from a fight. but all of those were player driven RP rules rather than hard coded deffinitions. i'd rather we kept to player deffined honor.
it's my understanding that most guilds (at least used to) have codes of honor, and in fact i remember huge debates over wheter or not there was an honerable way to run from a fight. but all of those were player driven RP rules rather than hard coded deffinitions. i'd rather we kept to player deffined honor.
Ive got a suggestion
Stop Playing World of Warcraft
Its really a rather boring game that has a lot of pretty pictures and not much substance.
It is addictive; so are McDonalds hamburgers and cigarettes. Thats why WoW has 1 billion served; its cheap crap that tastes good.
If you want something to copy, how about this. Choose your own adventure. Parcheesi. Chess. Backgammon. Kendo. Wrestling. Boxing. Kayaking. Racing. Disney World. Six Flags over Texas.
But not, please, I beg of you, World of Warcraft, Everquest, or any of the other number pusher addictoid meaningless soul suckers.
Stop Playing World of Warcraft
Its really a rather boring game that has a lot of pretty pictures and not much substance.
It is addictive; so are McDonalds hamburgers and cigarettes. Thats why WoW has 1 billion served; its cheap crap that tastes good.
If you want something to copy, how about this. Choose your own adventure. Parcheesi. Chess. Backgammon. Kendo. Wrestling. Boxing. Kayaking. Racing. Disney World. Six Flags over Texas.
But not, please, I beg of you, World of Warcraft, Everquest, or any of the other number pusher addictoid meaningless soul suckers.
Right on ananzi.
(wow, I agree with you dude... *looks up* guess its not armageddon afterall)
Yeah, ignore WoW, I couldn't play that game for more than about a week. Bored the life outta me. I don't get, at all, how people play it for months.
We have a small community, surely we have more freedom to try new things.
(wow, I agree with you dude... *looks up* guess its not armageddon afterall)
Yeah, ignore WoW, I couldn't play that game for more than about a week. Bored the life outta me. I don't get, at all, how people play it for months.
We have a small community, surely we have more freedom to try new things.
Honor is in the eye of the beholder. There's no way to enforce this in Vendetta. Let's just kill each other with less whining, please.
Honour is all about being considered to have a fair chance in the fight. A loaded tradeship against an unloaded pirateship is for example not honourable. 2 loaded tradeships are. 2 fighterrships are.
a fair chance is being in a smiliar setup, being at similar healthlevel and at similar skilllevel. just like being in a bus agaisnt a prom/valk ain't fair, or being in a hornet against a skycommand ain't fair etc...
2 vs x aren't honourable, since you are in fact trying to gank this person prolly because you don't want to give him a fight or learn from your mistakes but to see him killed.
On top of that people don't like to get killed, especially not when they consider to have no chance in at least killing the other person.
So therefore if you want less whining then you should consider that people only whine when they feel wronged. Wich is when their ego gets dent or when they feel they don't stand a chance in the present setup. So either you will have to live with that whining or impliment the hoinourable pvp part... And statign that its all the fault of mmorpg x or y, is just being ignorant... Its all about human nature... and survival... and struggle of the fittest/strongest. And in the end in an mmorpg like everquest/wow the person that is the strongest is the person with the higher number.
PS shape: there ar epeople that don't understand why people can play counterstrike, battlefield 2, cod, etc for months... in the end it all revolves around the same thing... being the best and having fun... but in stead of seeing the highest number in a level, you see it by having the best medal the highest pk count etc... all numberpushers... However seeing that i neve rplayed everquest or wow, but only gw, and i'm playing it mostly for the storyline and to have fun with friends I can't say if i would like to play it.
a fair chance is being in a smiliar setup, being at similar healthlevel and at similar skilllevel. just like being in a bus agaisnt a prom/valk ain't fair, or being in a hornet against a skycommand ain't fair etc...
2 vs x aren't honourable, since you are in fact trying to gank this person prolly because you don't want to give him a fight or learn from your mistakes but to see him killed.
On top of that people don't like to get killed, especially not when they consider to have no chance in at least killing the other person.
So therefore if you want less whining then you should consider that people only whine when they feel wronged. Wich is when their ego gets dent or when they feel they don't stand a chance in the present setup. So either you will have to live with that whining or impliment the hoinourable pvp part... And statign that its all the fault of mmorpg x or y, is just being ignorant... Its all about human nature... and survival... and struggle of the fittest/strongest. And in the end in an mmorpg like everquest/wow the person that is the strongest is the person with the higher number.
PS shape: there ar epeople that don't understand why people can play counterstrike, battlefield 2, cod, etc for months... in the end it all revolves around the same thing... being the best and having fun... but in stead of seeing the highest number in a level, you see it by having the best medal the highest pk count etc... all numberpushers... However seeing that i neve rplayed everquest or wow, but only gw, and i'm playing it mostly for the storyline and to have fun with friends I can't say if i would like to play it.
Sorry Rene, but you're missing why I think WoW is boring.
You could put a trained monkey at a keyboard, give it 6 redbulls a day, and you'd have a level 60 char at the end of a couple weeks (probably less, but I don't really know).
Sure, if stats is what you're after, then you could look at pk's,
but the fact is, in this game, these numbers WON'T get any higher unless you actually learn how to fly. And people have developed styles. I don't even look at my stats most of the time. Usually I just happen to check my charinfo (click the wrong tab in station) and its a "whoa, I did good work".
My point is that it DOESN'T revolve around being the best in WoW or Everquest, because there IS no best. There's a level cap. Anything beyond that, (Item's, etc.) is just luck, and the amount of time spent playing.
...........
For example, I play go. There are people who play for decades and don't advance, and people who play for 5 years and then go pro.
There are many MMO's out there that take away the skill component, so that people can justify their time spent playing. What is so refreshing about VO, is that there is are truly learned skills, that some people may have a knack for, and others may take longer.
I don't play for the pk's. But the way I play gives me pk's.
You could put a trained monkey at a keyboard, give it 6 redbulls a day, and you'd have a level 60 char at the end of a couple weeks (probably less, but I don't really know).
Sure, if stats is what you're after, then you could look at pk's,
but the fact is, in this game, these numbers WON'T get any higher unless you actually learn how to fly. And people have developed styles. I don't even look at my stats most of the time. Usually I just happen to check my charinfo (click the wrong tab in station) and its a "whoa, I did good work".
My point is that it DOESN'T revolve around being the best in WoW or Everquest, because there IS no best. There's a level cap. Anything beyond that, (Item's, etc.) is just luck, and the amount of time spent playing.
...........
For example, I play go. There are people who play for decades and don't advance, and people who play for 5 years and then go pro.
There are many MMO's out there that take away the skill component, so that people can justify their time spent playing. What is so refreshing about VO, is that there is are truly learned skills, that some people may have a knack for, and others may take longer.
I don't play for the pk's. But the way I play gives me pk's.
shape how to advnace pks:
create 2 accounts.
put a monkey on each account
let monkey A kill monkey b ocntineously for x weeks on end
account A has now got the highest amount of pks.
Like I said, everythign is boring if the only thing you are doing is going for highest stat and try to do so as fast as possible. However many people don't play a game for the highest stats, but for the fun they have gaining those high stats by letting themselves be enthralled by the storyline, hte missions etc... Just as you like playing this game and in hte end you have gained x pks.
Anyway in every game you have people obsessed about high numbers, and devs now have to take advantage of this addiction, sinc eit makes them earn more bucks.
But like I said, i have never played WoW nor everquest so i don't know what its handle is, but the only reason why i would play it would be to have fun with friends and to do quests and missions. I wouldn't care about getting a level 20 elf ranger who has gained 1 point in markmanship now making my arrow do splittingdamage now... But there are always other people that do, and knwoing that everybody is different should already identify why other people do find it fun.
create 2 accounts.
put a monkey on each account
let monkey A kill monkey b ocntineously for x weeks on end
account A has now got the highest amount of pks.
Like I said, everythign is boring if the only thing you are doing is going for highest stat and try to do so as fast as possible. However many people don't play a game for the highest stats, but for the fun they have gaining those high stats by letting themselves be enthralled by the storyline, hte missions etc... Just as you like playing this game and in hte end you have gained x pks.
Anyway in every game you have people obsessed about high numbers, and devs now have to take advantage of this addiction, sinc eit makes them earn more bucks.
But like I said, i have never played WoW nor everquest so i don't know what its handle is, but the only reason why i would play it would be to have fun with friends and to do quests and missions. I wouldn't care about getting a level 20 elf ranger who has gained 1 point in markmanship now making my arrow do splittingdamage now... But there are always other people that do, and knwoing that everybody is different should already identify why other people do find it fun.
As Leebs said... Honor is in the eye of the beholder.
Is Ganking a bad thing? or is it teamwork?
Is attacking a weakened player a bad thing? Or is it just a simple law of the hunt that you go for the weak?
A duel is a duel... THAT... is where Honor should be upheld by all means. Other battles though? Not so much... as far as RP goes... for most chars, honor only matters in duels.
And... the point when you can be honorable and defeat even the most dishonorable tactics makes you that much better, and gives you the satisfaction of knowing you are a good hamster.
Is Ganking a bad thing? or is it teamwork?
Is attacking a weakened player a bad thing? Or is it just a simple law of the hunt that you go for the weak?
A duel is a duel... THAT... is where Honor should be upheld by all means. Other battles though? Not so much... as far as RP goes... for most chars, honor only matters in duels.
And... the point when you can be honorable and defeat even the most dishonorable tactics makes you that much better, and gives you the satisfaction of knowing you are a good hamster.
Well, simple, make the reward for each badge something that requires skill to use.
Sure, if you kill your friend some odd 1000 times. You'll get the device, and be totally clueless as to how to use it properly. You'll have to spend AT LEAST that many kills practicing with it.
That's the way I see it, no Uber rewards for badges, just new opportunities for challenges.
Sure, if you kill your friend some odd 1000 times. You'll get the device, and be totally clueless as to how to use it properly. You'll have to spend AT LEAST that many kills practicing with it.
That's the way I see it, no Uber rewards for badges, just new opportunities for challenges.
try to give me an example of somethign that requires skill which a person hasn't dumbed down to not needing skill but just a simple pattern?
in the end the term you call skill is nothing else but term spend playing.
So to be honest i don't see a difference with wow then? I need to spend x kills with weapon y before i can get my badge to spend z more kils with weapon z to get my next badge?
doesn't that remind you to spend x time and missions to get to level 60 and open up another higher level instance?
Like I said, it has nothingt o do with the game but everything with the way you play it and what you expect out of it.
Just as level 60 in wow opens up new challenges for you to try that have a chance to drop something nice. It is jus tthe mentality from some poeple playing it that want it all now in stead of having fun on the way to 60
in the end the term you call skill is nothing else but term spend playing.
So to be honest i don't see a difference with wow then? I need to spend x kills with weapon y before i can get my badge to spend z more kils with weapon z to get my next badge?
doesn't that remind you to spend x time and missions to get to level 60 and open up another higher level instance?
Like I said, it has nothingt o do with the game but everything with the way you play it and what you expect out of it.
Just as level 60 in wow opens up new challenges for you to try that have a chance to drop something nice. It is jus tthe mentality from some poeple playing it that want it all now in stead of having fun on the way to 60
If you don't see the difference, then I don't know that this argumentis going anywhere.
As far as a simple pattern, I don't have one. I structure my fighting to adapt to whomever I'm fighting with. People who use a pattern can always be beat.
As far as the comparison to WoW,
Sure it reminds me of opening up a high level instance, except that it doesn't. Those aren't challenges, if you have the items to fight that instance, you'll win, if you don't, you'll lose, its just that simple. I'm talking about something like a grappling gun, when you hit, holds on for 2 seconds, and then lets go.
Imagine learning to throw people into roids. Rolling is useless for that, you have to know your surroundings, and get them into a true spin, that releases when the grappler does.
Or how bout a gravity wave gun. You fire a pulse, it does no damage but slows anyone moving through it.
I think if you think about it you can come up with some interesting ideas.
As far as a simple pattern, I don't have one. I structure my fighting to adapt to whomever I'm fighting with. People who use a pattern can always be beat.
As far as the comparison to WoW,
Sure it reminds me of opening up a high level instance, except that it doesn't. Those aren't challenges, if you have the items to fight that instance, you'll win, if you don't, you'll lose, its just that simple. I'm talking about something like a grappling gun, when you hit, holds on for 2 seconds, and then lets go.
Imagine learning to throw people into roids. Rolling is useless for that, you have to know your surroundings, and get them into a true spin, that releases when the grappler does.
Or how bout a gravity wave gun. You fire a pulse, it does no damage but slows anyone moving through it.
I think if you think about it you can come up with some interesting ideas.
But that structure that you are putting in is a pattern. Which will land you into trouble if the person you are trying to mimmick changes his fighting habits constantly, since you'll always run 1 step behind. If he alternates fast enough he'll make you feel uneasy which is the moment you start making errors. Just as what you try to do with countering their fightingstyle.
If i recall correctly, i remember people going into these instances without the best equipment, coming out hopefully with bette rpieces which true make the game easier. But isn't that what our advanced gunnery does as well. Along the road you get neuts, then neuts mk2 oh and neuts mk3. You get proms, and prom mk2s, and then prom mk3s and oh also skycommands. It would be same as me in abus going agaisnt matriarch in his prom. If I don't have the equipment I'll lose. If i have the equipment, I might win.
I'm sure that if you wanna throw people agaisnt roids you'll just have to follow a couple of basic steps to do so successfully, which in turn is a pattern.
Just as shooting a wave gun will involve some pattern.
heck even learning how to cook involves a pattern of put butter in the pan, light the fire, put the pan on the fire, put the item you wanna cook in the pan and then let it cook for x minutes. Still if i remember correctly we have cheffs that are well known for their skill but in hte end just followed a simple pattern which anybody can copy and do if given enough time or spend enough time on it.
what you consider skill : i consider time spent.
edit : darned spelling
If i recall correctly, i remember people going into these instances without the best equipment, coming out hopefully with bette rpieces which true make the game easier. But isn't that what our advanced gunnery does as well. Along the road you get neuts, then neuts mk2 oh and neuts mk3. You get proms, and prom mk2s, and then prom mk3s and oh also skycommands. It would be same as me in abus going agaisnt matriarch in his prom. If I don't have the equipment I'll lose. If i have the equipment, I might win.
I'm sure that if you wanna throw people agaisnt roids you'll just have to follow a couple of basic steps to do so successfully, which in turn is a pattern.
Just as shooting a wave gun will involve some pattern.
heck even learning how to cook involves a pattern of put butter in the pan, light the fire, put the pan on the fire, put the item you wanna cook in the pan and then let it cook for x minutes. Still if i remember correctly we have cheffs that are well known for their skill but in hte end just followed a simple pattern which anybody can copy and do if given enough time or spend enough time on it.
what you consider skill : i consider time spent.
edit : darned spelling
um, skill is derived from time spent. it is the combination of expierience (patterns that work) and understanding of the disceplin that allows you to inprovise and develope new patterns.
hey, Shape, how about you try to do Dire Maul West for the first time? I'll lend you an epic geared toon, see how often you still die? okay? :-)
(I mostly agree with you, but claiming no skill required in WoW is kinda like saying the same for VO. if you have a SkyCommand, do you get off with having less skill, yeah, do you still need some skill to beat Shape? yeah.)
(I mostly agree with you, but claiming no skill required in WoW is kinda like saying the same for VO. if you have a SkyCommand, do you get off with having less skill, yeah, do you still need some skill to beat Shape? yeah.)
I dont usually bother reading things by rene, but hell, here goes.
Rene Time sent playing VO does not = Skill.
I know people who have been playing for longer than me that I consider my self more skilled than, and theres at LEAST 10 people who started after me that can stand toe to toe with me, theres at least 5 more that havent been playing near as much as me (one infact has only played in total 2 months) who can cosistantly pwn me.
I know at least 1 *vet* who has been playing a lot longer than me who STILL gets pwned by Artemis collectors (infact he quit when they fixed bot cracking).
Hand to eye coodination, determination and experience all = skill in Vendetta, if you dont have all of the above attributes, you will get pwned, Prom or not.
[edit]
Also *honour* is indeed in the eye of the beholder, some people think its ok to attack someone just cos they are n b8, with no warning, simply cos they are in b8, some people think its ok if you hail them, and tell em your gunna blast em, some even think its honourable to sit, loaded with swarms, watch a fight (not interfear) and then blast the guy who wins from 20m away with a salvo or two.
Define : Honour, then talk about putting it ingame. (impossible)
Oh and for the record *anything* that invovles stat loss = baaaad.
Rene Time sent playing VO does not = Skill.
I know people who have been playing for longer than me that I consider my self more skilled than, and theres at LEAST 10 people who started after me that can stand toe to toe with me, theres at least 5 more that havent been playing near as much as me (one infact has only played in total 2 months) who can cosistantly pwn me.
I know at least 1 *vet* who has been playing a lot longer than me who STILL gets pwned by Artemis collectors (infact he quit when they fixed bot cracking).
Hand to eye coodination, determination and experience all = skill in Vendetta, if you dont have all of the above attributes, you will get pwned, Prom or not.
[edit]
Also *honour* is indeed in the eye of the beholder, some people think its ok to attack someone just cos they are n b8, with no warning, simply cos they are in b8, some people think its ok if you hail them, and tell em your gunna blast em, some even think its honourable to sit, loaded with swarms, watch a fight (not interfear) and then blast the guy who wins from 20m away with a salvo or two.
Define : Honour, then talk about putting it ingame. (impossible)
Oh and for the record *anything* that invovles stat loss = baaaad.
Well yoda, then don't bother to start now.
There is a difference between playing and 'playing'. If i just do my daily traderuns and never engage in pvp then chances will be slim that i will improve in this part of the game.
If you don't bother to spend effort to overcome an obstacle and just take the easy way out then you won't improve.
But the figuring out of these items needs time spent in game. You can have a uber intelligent mind, uber eye hand coordination, but in the end its nothing if you don't spend time within game practicing that on other people.
But like in any theory there are exceptions that confirm the general rule.
Just like if you hadn't played days on end, your pwnage factor would be far less, and that is a fact. If you only play 1 hour a week, then don't expect to consistantly beat a person that has the general same abilities as you but who spends near 50% of his life on the game.
But hey if you disagree, then lets just agree to disagree.
Just as a chair is a chair, its by general consent that honout is honour. if you rape a women is that honourfull? If you murder a kid is that honourfull? Well in some peoples eyes it is, but in others its a heineous crime. But in the end it is agreed upon by some people what is honourfull and what isn't. And in this universe the devs will have to identify what that is, and we will then have to accept that. If they say that any fight is honourable, even ganking (= gang killing), the butchering of newbies, etc then so be it. But that is then why I left the details over to the devs and just shared my opinion of what I consider honourfull, just as anybody else can share his/her own.
in the end the devs will then decide. I only tried to give an option of what i think honour in the game should be like, but tried to not pûnish people to not have this standard but to have some additional measure of respect. I just didn't want to ty it to reputation, seeing that there may be people that are considered criminals by x people, but at the same time they are considered honourable in all their dealings (example of this see movie kingdom of heaven, saladin and the other person).
There is a difference between playing and 'playing'. If i just do my daily traderuns and never engage in pvp then chances will be slim that i will improve in this part of the game.
If you don't bother to spend effort to overcome an obstacle and just take the easy way out then you won't improve.
But the figuring out of these items needs time spent in game. You can have a uber intelligent mind, uber eye hand coordination, but in the end its nothing if you don't spend time within game practicing that on other people.
But like in any theory there are exceptions that confirm the general rule.
Just like if you hadn't played days on end, your pwnage factor would be far less, and that is a fact. If you only play 1 hour a week, then don't expect to consistantly beat a person that has the general same abilities as you but who spends near 50% of his life on the game.
But hey if you disagree, then lets just agree to disagree.
Just as a chair is a chair, its by general consent that honout is honour. if you rape a women is that honourfull? If you murder a kid is that honourfull? Well in some peoples eyes it is, but in others its a heineous crime. But in the end it is agreed upon by some people what is honourfull and what isn't. And in this universe the devs will have to identify what that is, and we will then have to accept that. If they say that any fight is honourable, even ganking (= gang killing), the butchering of newbies, etc then so be it. But that is then why I left the details over to the devs and just shared my opinion of what I consider honourfull, just as anybody else can share his/her own.
in the end the devs will then decide. I only tried to give an option of what i think honour in the game should be like, but tried to not pûnish people to not have this standard but to have some additional measure of respect. I just didn't want to ty it to reputation, seeing that there may be people that are considered criminals by x people, but at the same time they are considered honourable in all their dealings (example of this see movie kingdom of heaven, saladin and the other person).