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Variable boost drain - redux
Seeing as the original thread I posted this in has turned into a discussion of parrot droppings, I'm going to post this into a new thread so that people can actually comment on it.
NOTE: THIS IS NOT JUST A REHASH OF "WE WANT VARIABLE BOOST, YADDA YADDA," I ACTUALLY PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO HOW THIS CAN ALL BALANCE OUT
Like using a throttle, the player can adjust the power that boost uses, which in most cases, means that fighters can enjoy infiniboost again, although it will not be the old infiniboost that we all remember.
At 50/s, all ships travel between 170-190m/s. Smaller fighters (Centurion, Vulture, Valkyrie) have their lower boost bounds at 50/s and are interceptors as they can go faster than 190m/s at higher boost drain. Medium fighters (Warthog, Hornet, Marauder) can go a bit above 190 and a bit below 190 in exchange for the ability to actually have boost with a drain lower than 50. The largest fighters (Centaur, Ragnarok, Prometheus) cannot go higher than 50/s and can only regain energy for high speed rocket and/or gun strafing runs on capital ships.
There could be some exceptions to the infiniboost rule, like the IDF Valkyrie Vigilant might only have boost settings above 50/s but would be the fastest boosting fighters.
Say that for balance sake, at 50/s settings, light fighters have on average the slowest boost speeds, and the heavy fighters have the highest boost speeds. While this sounds like heavy fighters will have just awesome running advantages, just stick around and hear me out.
At infiniboost, while yes, heavy fighters can run faster than infiniboosting light fighters, their heavier mass causes them to accelerate to their top speed much slower than the light, and the light can always sacrifice infiniboost to get a much higher top speed. Reducing boost energy below 50/s for larger fighters will reduce the absolute top speed, but only slightly (say that at 45/s, a fighter would see a 5 m/s reduction in top speed). Raising the energy above 50/s will more significantly increase the top speed of the fighter (maybe at 55/s, a fighter would see a 10-15 m/s increase in top speed). This is to prevent heavy fighters from becoming sitting ducks at low boost drain, and to give light fighters a good advantage at higher boost settings.
So in a long chase, the heavy fighter would be able to get away as long as its armor lasts, but the light fighter could also easily catch and shoot the heavy if it reacted fast enough. It would be impossible for a centurion to kill a completely undamaged heavy if it started too far away, but then that would be the point, right? It can't be too easy for the light fighter to kill the heavy alone. However, if the heavy tries to run from a dogfight, he'd be easy mincemeat.
So yes, infiniboost is much slower than it was before, but that's the price that you pay for endurance. It turns the light fighters into sprinters, but allows them to cruise when they want to. It also allows heavy fighters to make use of their energy weapons while making straight-line attack runs on large targets. Medium fighters remain the jack-of-all-trades, but are not stellar in either side of the boost drain.
NOTE: THIS IS NOT JUST A REHASH OF "WE WANT VARIABLE BOOST, YADDA YADDA," I ACTUALLY PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT INTO HOW THIS CAN ALL BALANCE OUT
Like using a throttle, the player can adjust the power that boost uses, which in most cases, means that fighters can enjoy infiniboost again, although it will not be the old infiniboost that we all remember.
At 50/s, all ships travel between 170-190m/s. Smaller fighters (Centurion, Vulture, Valkyrie) have their lower boost bounds at 50/s and are interceptors as they can go faster than 190m/s at higher boost drain. Medium fighters (Warthog, Hornet, Marauder) can go a bit above 190 and a bit below 190 in exchange for the ability to actually have boost with a drain lower than 50. The largest fighters (Centaur, Ragnarok, Prometheus) cannot go higher than 50/s and can only regain energy for high speed rocket and/or gun strafing runs on capital ships.
There could be some exceptions to the infiniboost rule, like the IDF Valkyrie Vigilant might only have boost settings above 50/s but would be the fastest boosting fighters.
Say that for balance sake, at 50/s settings, light fighters have on average the slowest boost speeds, and the heavy fighters have the highest boost speeds. While this sounds like heavy fighters will have just awesome running advantages, just stick around and hear me out.
At infiniboost, while yes, heavy fighters can run faster than infiniboosting light fighters, their heavier mass causes them to accelerate to their top speed much slower than the light, and the light can always sacrifice infiniboost to get a much higher top speed. Reducing boost energy below 50/s for larger fighters will reduce the absolute top speed, but only slightly (say that at 45/s, a fighter would see a 5 m/s reduction in top speed). Raising the energy above 50/s will more significantly increase the top speed of the fighter (maybe at 55/s, a fighter would see a 10-15 m/s increase in top speed). This is to prevent heavy fighters from becoming sitting ducks at low boost drain, and to give light fighters a good advantage at higher boost settings.
So in a long chase, the heavy fighter would be able to get away as long as its armor lasts, but the light fighter could also easily catch and shoot the heavy if it reacted fast enough. It would be impossible for a centurion to kill a completely undamaged heavy if it started too far away, but then that would be the point, right? It can't be too easy for the light fighter to kill the heavy alone. However, if the heavy tries to run from a dogfight, he'd be easy mincemeat.
So yes, infiniboost is much slower than it was before, but that's the price that you pay for endurance. It turns the light fighters into sprinters, but allows them to cruise when they want to. It also allows heavy fighters to make use of their energy weapons while making straight-line attack runs on large targets. Medium fighters remain the jack-of-all-trades, but are not stellar in either side of the boost drain.
I totally, wholeheartedly dig this, CP. Excellent.
Now, how much work will it require?
Now, how much work will it require?
Yes please. One thing I'd like to add is that in addition to having a higher top speed, a higher turbo drain should also give higher thrust.
Why not just have special batteries for each ship type?
Also, what's the point of sacrificing speed to go 110 steady?
Also, what's the point of sacrificing speed to go 110 steady?
i'm not certain i understand the perposed balance.
light ships infiniboost at the lowest speeds, but have the highest maximum speed
mediaum ships have mediaum infiniboost and top speeds, but can set drain below infiniboost (with insignifigant loss of top speed from infiniboost levels)
heavy ships get the best infiniboost speeds but the worst max speeds
is that right?
assuming that it is i have to say that i don't get it. why would the lightest fighters not be the ones that can set to below 50 drain? they should be the easierst to move.
my perposal is something more like this:
heavy and light fighters (cent / prom) get the highest top speeds. but the hevies require a higher drain at all velocity settings (the light ships can set drain to less than 50, but the hevies can't and heavies infiniboost at a lower speed)
Medium fighters (hog, hornet) get a lower top turbo speed than the heavies or lights, but have the best infiniboost speed (drain rate increases faster on these than any other ship to create the low max speed)
EC-88, leave alone (it doesn't need complicated turbo balancing to confuse n00bs, and performs reasonablyu well as is)
'Moth, has a maximum top speed comprable the lights and heavies, but at that output would empty it's battery in 5 seconds. and all intermediate power levels it has the worst drain for that velocity among all ships.
this arangments leaves light fighters as the best interceptors (they have the best sprinting speed, and can even recharge at lower velocities thanks to their low mass, and relativly large engins). medium ships are the best endurance runners (they have a larger chasis for better engins, but don't have the excess bulk of the heavie ships. Heavies have good sprinting speeds (they can tax their engins more than the mediums becuase they have the space to have an engineer/meckanic/co-pilot to watch that core containment is maintained, but they have a lot more bulk to haul around so they can't maintain the higher speeds for long).
also it gives the 'moth the option of a sudden burst of speed (not good for much but if used as a suprise could be a life saver), while still keeping it catchable at all power settings.
anyway, my perposal was based on the question "how would actual ships handle variable speeds?" and my interpretation of the function of all the ships involved. balance wise, i'm not sold on having the mediums be the slowest ships, so perhaps the heavies should have a top speed somwhere around that of the mediums (with worse drains at all coresponding velocity settings).
light ships infiniboost at the lowest speeds, but have the highest maximum speed
mediaum ships have mediaum infiniboost and top speeds, but can set drain below infiniboost (with insignifigant loss of top speed from infiniboost levels)
heavy ships get the best infiniboost speeds but the worst max speeds
is that right?
assuming that it is i have to say that i don't get it. why would the lightest fighters not be the ones that can set to below 50 drain? they should be the easierst to move.
my perposal is something more like this:
heavy and light fighters (cent / prom) get the highest top speeds. but the hevies require a higher drain at all velocity settings (the light ships can set drain to less than 50, but the hevies can't and heavies infiniboost at a lower speed)
Medium fighters (hog, hornet) get a lower top turbo speed than the heavies or lights, but have the best infiniboost speed (drain rate increases faster on these than any other ship to create the low max speed)
EC-88, leave alone (it doesn't need complicated turbo balancing to confuse n00bs, and performs reasonablyu well as is)
'Moth, has a maximum top speed comprable the lights and heavies, but at that output would empty it's battery in 5 seconds. and all intermediate power levels it has the worst drain for that velocity among all ships.
this arangments leaves light fighters as the best interceptors (they have the best sprinting speed, and can even recharge at lower velocities thanks to their low mass, and relativly large engins). medium ships are the best endurance runners (they have a larger chasis for better engins, but don't have the excess bulk of the heavie ships. Heavies have good sprinting speeds (they can tax their engins more than the mediums becuase they have the space to have an engineer/meckanic/co-pilot to watch that core containment is maintained, but they have a lot more bulk to haul around so they can't maintain the higher speeds for long).
also it gives the 'moth the option of a sudden burst of speed (not good for much but if used as a suprise could be a life saver), while still keeping it catchable at all power settings.
anyway, my perposal was based on the question "how would actual ships handle variable speeds?" and my interpretation of the function of all the ships involved. balance wise, i'm not sold on having the mediums be the slowest ships, so perhaps the heavies should have a top speed somwhere around that of the mediums (with worse drains at all coresponding velocity settings).
Well, the theory is this:
At infiniboost: the heavies should have the highest top speed because in the end, they have the strongest engines (mainly to counter their mass). The light fighters have the lowest top speed because their engines are really not as powerful as the heavy fighters' engines, just they have the benefit of a lower thrust to weight ratio to accelerate much quicker. The mediums are in the middle.
The light fighters get the fastest boost speeds because they're the interceptors, and are built for high speed sprints. Heavy fighters are built more for cruising, and making high speed attack runs on large targets, so infiniboost is their upper bound for turbo, and they can actually lower their drain and get recharge at boost. And medium fighters are in the middle. They can sprint, and they can bomb, but they don't really do either as well as the lights or the heavies.
Hmm... looking at it, maybe the medium fighters should have more of an advantage of some sort.... (I'm putting this new iteration on a new post to differentiate it)
At infiniboost: the heavies should have the highest top speed because in the end, they have the strongest engines (mainly to counter their mass). The light fighters have the lowest top speed because their engines are really not as powerful as the heavy fighters' engines, just they have the benefit of a lower thrust to weight ratio to accelerate much quicker. The mediums are in the middle.
The light fighters get the fastest boost speeds because they're the interceptors, and are built for high speed sprints. Heavy fighters are built more for cruising, and making high speed attack runs on large targets, so infiniboost is their upper bound for turbo, and they can actually lower their drain and get recharge at boost. And medium fighters are in the middle. They can sprint, and they can bomb, but they don't really do either as well as the lights or the heavies.
Hmm... looking at it, maybe the medium fighters should have more of an advantage of some sort.... (I'm putting this new iteration on a new post to differentiate it)
Okay, how about medium fighters are designed for their infiniboost speed, and so they have the highest infiniboost speed, but can't go as fast as the lights for the same amount of drain, and don't get as much recharge for the same drop in speed as the heavies. Say at 50/s, the medium fighters go around 190 m/s, at 60/s they go around 220 m/s, and at 40/s, they go around 160 m/s.
So the light fighters now have the greatest range of speeds (as well as the highest top speed). They're slower than all other fighters at infiniboost, go much faster than all other fighters at maximum drain, but also go much slower at minimum drain (basically, a rechargeboosting light fighter is a sitting duck). So maybe for 50/s, they get 170 m/s, at 60/s they go 250 m/s, and at 40/s, they go 130 m/s.
And the heavy fighters have the smallest range of speeds in comparison to the others, but they'll be faster than the medium while recharging their batt, and much slower than a light at maximum drain. So at 50/s, they get 180 m/s, at 60/s, they get 190 m/s, and at 40/s, they get 170 m/s. So yes, a recharge boosting heavy could keep up with and simultaneously cut apart an infiniboosting light, but if they're being chased at maximum boost, they don't gain as much of an advantage, and the light would have no problems chasing it down.
Hmm... Looking at it again, this second iteration seems a bit more balanced than the first, simply because each fighter has the same (or similar) range of power, and very different ranges of speed. No one fighter seems to have more speed and recharge advantages or disadvantages over another, making (at least this example) a very good rock-paper-scissors balance.
How does that sound? And don't think that the numbers are absolute. They're just placeholders that I introduced to illustrate my point about boost drain and top speed and to ease comparison amongst the fighter types.
So the light fighters now have the greatest range of speeds (as well as the highest top speed). They're slower than all other fighters at infiniboost, go much faster than all other fighters at maximum drain, but also go much slower at minimum drain (basically, a rechargeboosting light fighter is a sitting duck). So maybe for 50/s, they get 170 m/s, at 60/s they go 250 m/s, and at 40/s, they go 130 m/s.
And the heavy fighters have the smallest range of speeds in comparison to the others, but they'll be faster than the medium while recharging their batt, and much slower than a light at maximum drain. So at 50/s, they get 180 m/s, at 60/s, they get 190 m/s, and at 40/s, they get 170 m/s. So yes, a recharge boosting heavy could keep up with and simultaneously cut apart an infiniboosting light, but if they're being chased at maximum boost, they don't gain as much of an advantage, and the light would have no problems chasing it down.
Hmm... Looking at it again, this second iteration seems a bit more balanced than the first, simply because each fighter has the same (or similar) range of power, and very different ranges of speed. No one fighter seems to have more speed and recharge advantages or disadvantages over another, making (at least this example) a very good rock-paper-scissors balance.
How does that sound? And don't think that the numbers are absolute. They're just placeholders that I introduced to illustrate my point about boost drain and top speed and to ease comparison amongst the fighter types.
leave it as it is.
This all sounds exillent, and would be useful for capship strafing runs, or long distance traveling, but not much else really. If we could TURN while we're BOOSTing, I'd see a lot more application for this. Like in racing and combat. We might not be able to strafe boost, but being able to infiniboost and shoot at eachother would make for longer and more interesting battles.