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screwball, but then people will just stockpile ships too.
I still like the idea that there's a non-related stat that gets subtracted from each time you die, and when you reduce that stat to zero, you take heavy maneuvering restrictions (no turbo, and thrust reduced to 1/2, or something). However, through special missions, you can raise that stat to prevent taking the hit. In Dofus (which this idea is based on), I haven't noticed anyone trying to run away, but they will fight to the death in hopes that they'll be lucky.
I still like the idea that there's a non-related stat that gets subtracted from each time you die, and when you reduce that stat to zero, you take heavy maneuvering restrictions (no turbo, and thrust reduced to 1/2, or something). However, through special missions, you can raise that stat to prevent taking the hit. In Dofus (which this idea is based on), I haven't noticed anyone trying to run away, but they will fight to the death in hopes that they'll be lucky.
Isn't it rather odd that station holds are infinite? Why not limit it so each player is allocated a limited amount of space in each station hold, and they can only stockpile as many ships and/or weapons as they can fit in that space. Make it 1000cu, which is enough space for a decent stockpile of weapons, but if the player is also stockpiling ships, then each ship takes 50cu (Vulture) to 300cu (Behemoth).
I like Beolach's idea. I don't know whether or not it would help with the whole dying is meaningless thing, but it would hepl prevent people like me from having loads of deralect ships and weapons that i don't even know about. seriously, the other day i found out that i have like 20 rail guns in one station in Dau alone
Not just ships/weapons. Ores and minerals too.
There definitely should be a station-cargo capacity BASED on what you are paying that particular station.
Everyone could start out with 500cu for FREE. Larger amounts from there would cost ___ credits per hour, depending on the size.
And then, there should be an upper limit on how much space that station can lease out (this does not imply they wouldn't have more space for their own stuff, just what they can lease out). 50000cu, or something. When that number is approached, you can't store items there.
There definitely should be a station-cargo capacity BASED on what you are paying that particular station.
Everyone could start out with 500cu for FREE. Larger amounts from there would cost ___ credits per hour, depending on the size.
And then, there should be an upper limit on how much space that station can lease out (this does not imply they wouldn't have more space for their own stuff, just what they can lease out). 50000cu, or something. When that number is approached, you can't store items there.
I like the idea of paying rent for storage space.
I dislike the idea of limited total storage space as that could be exploited by stockpiling anything to reserve space for when the limit is reached.
I dislike the idea of limited total storage space as that could be exploited by stockpiling anything to reserve space for when the limit is reached.
How to make death more of a penalty:
There are really only three areas of a character that you can effect to make any impact on a person. License levels, Faction standing, or Money.
While no one likes to loose their hard earned xp points, this is a tried and true way to handle deaths. I hate this approach personally, makes you feel like all that time was wasted over something so simple like a death. And if someone is greifing you this could be a major exploit to harrasing someone. I do however like the idea of lowering the combat license xp # a certain amount per kill on a temp basis. Each kill could be worth x amount depending on the license level of the "killer" so if you are killed by a non-experienced pvp'er (newbie) you would loose a large chunk of xp say, 2000xp, but for someone of equal license would only be a minimal hit since you are equally skilled in the eyes of the license issuers (nations), say 150xp. That loss of xp would be gained back at x points per minute, where x is your combat xp license level. So the higher level you are the faster you gain back your xp.
Monitarily, it would be to increase the cost of ships massively so that it would be unwise to loose a ship. Only the most rich in the game would blink at a death at that point. As well as increase the cost of weapons.
Finally, Faction standing. I don't think that taking a faction hit with your own nation simply because someone else killed you is a fair way to deal with death. But I do think that if the penalty to your faction against a player was increase that there might be less battles. People would choose to fight more carefully because they might not want to loose that faction standing. And make all sectors monitored to one extent or another , even grey, base the loss in grey on the recovery of the black box.
There are really only three areas of a character that you can effect to make any impact on a person. License levels, Faction standing, or Money.
While no one likes to loose their hard earned xp points, this is a tried and true way to handle deaths. I hate this approach personally, makes you feel like all that time was wasted over something so simple like a death. And if someone is greifing you this could be a major exploit to harrasing someone. I do however like the idea of lowering the combat license xp # a certain amount per kill on a temp basis. Each kill could be worth x amount depending on the license level of the "killer" so if you are killed by a non-experienced pvp'er (newbie) you would loose a large chunk of xp say, 2000xp, but for someone of equal license would only be a minimal hit since you are equally skilled in the eyes of the license issuers (nations), say 150xp. That loss of xp would be gained back at x points per minute, where x is your combat xp license level. So the higher level you are the faster you gain back your xp.
Monitarily, it would be to increase the cost of ships massively so that it would be unwise to loose a ship. Only the most rich in the game would blink at a death at that point. As well as increase the cost of weapons.
Finally, Faction standing. I don't think that taking a faction hit with your own nation simply because someone else killed you is a fair way to deal with death. But I do think that if the penalty to your faction against a player was increase that there might be less battles. People would choose to fight more carefully because they might not want to loose that faction standing. And make all sectors monitored to one extent or another , even grey, base the loss in grey on the recovery of the black box.
margoth sez: I like the idea of paying rent for storage space.
Noooo! Where will I stash my tequila then? (Assuming there's any left...)
XP penalties for PvP deaths only, please. I don't wanna lose XP to a rock, or to a drunken attempt at docking my burning, smoking Valk at 1% health.
Noooo! Where will I stash my tequila then? (Assuming there's any left...)
XP penalties for PvP deaths only, please. I don't wanna lose XP to a rock, or to a drunken attempt at docking my burning, smoking Valk at 1% health.
but of course!
Why hasn't anyone thought of insurance payments on ships?
Something that would only affect you once you reach about 4/4/4/3/2... because around there is when you can be considered to know what you're doing.
And it would go up with each death... if you didn't pay... then you would be unable to home at certain places...
And yeah... I have 21million cr right now... I don't really fear death as much as I should, and I do kind of like it this way... because sometimes... those bots are just too crafty.
Insurance penalties for dying to bots should be lesser than those for dying to players... and your insurance should go up dramatically if you're fighting queens or the Levi.
What do you think?
-Zoras
Something that would only affect you once you reach about 4/4/4/3/2... because around there is when you can be considered to know what you're doing.
And it would go up with each death... if you didn't pay... then you would be unable to home at certain places...
And yeah... I have 21million cr right now... I don't really fear death as much as I should, and I do kind of like it this way... because sometimes... those bots are just too crafty.
Insurance penalties for dying to bots should be lesser than those for dying to players... and your insurance should go up dramatically if you're fighting queens or the Levi.
What do you think?
-Zoras
Can stand paying for car insurance, why would I want to in a video game. Sorry, I don't like the idea.
John, I can't stand paying for things, why would I want to in a video game?
Point: Credits are worthless because:
1) They are easily gained.
2) There is little that you can do with them.
The Vendetta currency needs a use (several) beyond spending them for the "Die and rebuy" scenario. Beyond replenishing ammo. As it has been said several times before, this is a MMORPG, and not a MMOFPS.
Re: margoth
I dislike the idea of limited total storage space as that could be exploited by stockpiling anything to reserve space for when the limit is reached.
I don't see how. If total storage space is limited, then how could that be exploited? There shouldn't be an accessible 'reserve space' beyond anything the player has purchased.
Point: Credits are worthless because:
1) They are easily gained.
2) There is little that you can do with them.
The Vendetta currency needs a use (several) beyond spending them for the "Die and rebuy" scenario. Beyond replenishing ammo. As it has been said several times before, this is a MMORPG, and not a MMOFPS.
Re: margoth
I dislike the idea of limited total storage space as that could be exploited by stockpiling anything to reserve space for when the limit is reached.
I don't see how. If total storage space is limited, then how could that be exploited? There shouldn't be an accessible 'reserve space' beyond anything the player has purchased.
Spellcast: I like your idea, I wish I had seen this thread before I posted in the 10 issues thread and mentioned death penalties. :D
Losing licenses every death and having to wait to regain them is a great way to prevent the whole "endless loop" I described in the other thread.
Of course it would have to apply to stocked components as well, otherwise someone who has a large number of prepared ships wouldn't be effected by it.
So you'd need to have a license not only to buy the parts, but use them.
Also I'd say forget the random part and have the player drop 1 level in everything at death for a certain time.
But what is your possible solution for running/repairing? If death has a penalty, but running doesn't, everyone will run.
Losing licenses every death and having to wait to regain them is a great way to prevent the whole "endless loop" I described in the other thread.
Of course it would have to apply to stocked components as well, otherwise someone who has a large number of prepared ships wouldn't be effected by it.
So you'd need to have a license not only to buy the parts, but use them.
Also I'd say forget the random part and have the player drop 1 level in everything at death for a certain time.
But what is your possible solution for running/repairing? If death has a penalty, but running doesn't, everyone will run.
cam, see the million and 1 other posts i have made in the running threads... short(3 seconds? less? more?) timer to jump in system. and remove inveunerability on the warping out part of a wormhole jump. :)
I still think a respawn delay of 15 seconds or so is a great quick-fix. It'll give you a good sense of what eternity feels like. ;-) While you wait, maybe you can just float around as a disembodied ghost through the area. You can look like Navi from Ocarina of Time floating around space for 15 seconds. Strap an unreal engine on that spirit and fly around for a bit. (Okay I'm digressing.)
I wanted to add to my "apartment" idea as well. Maybe we should also be able to "rent-a-respawn" (we'll call it a "hotel" to keep with the domicile motif) at any station. You pay money at a station where you don't have an "apartment" and you get to respawn there one time only. You can go into another station and cancel the arrangement for a refund of 85% of the purchase (to discourage using it just like the current system.) Stations that are closer to combat zones should have more expensive "hotels" and "apartments" naturally. I suppose the game mechanincs would allow the price of these things to be dictated by the same "supply and demand" model as other items.
I wanted to add to my "apartment" idea as well. Maybe we should also be able to "rent-a-respawn" (we'll call it a "hotel" to keep with the domicile motif) at any station. You pay money at a station where you don't have an "apartment" and you get to respawn there one time only. You can go into another station and cancel the arrangement for a refund of 85% of the purchase (to discourage using it just like the current system.) Stations that are closer to combat zones should have more expensive "hotels" and "apartments" naturally. I suppose the game mechanincs would allow the price of these things to be dictated by the same "supply and demand" model as other items.
Uncledave makes an excellent point *applauds* but his solutions are far too harsh. We don't want to discourage people from PvP-ing. Here is my take on the proposed solutions:
XP hit: Many other games do this, and I've always thought a minimal xp hit would not be a bad thing (1% of total capped at 500 per category) but in a game where death comes in the blink of an eye I can see the arguments against it.
Money: making ships more expensive would not be a bad idea. I've always thought that it was a little funny that weapons usually cost more than the ship itself. A % of total money penalty for each death doesn't make sense imo... why penalize players for accumulating credits? People would simply stockpile equipment and ore instead.
Faction: we already lose faction for failing a mission, and that's the right idea. I'd be against a faction hit simply for dying in monitored space... I'd imagine that faction would be more aggrieved against the killer than you for dying. Loss of trust is another matter, but trust is really only involved when you are on a mission for that faction neh?
Escape pod/respawn delay: blah. I want to spend time in game having fun, not sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting to respawn or inching my way back to a station in an invisible escape pod. At least the escape pod would give you something to do, but a respawn timer would just be very blah.
"Death shroud"/energy/Teleportation sickness:
I really, really like this idea, I think it's a relatively straightforward solution that we have overlooked for some time.
What exactly is the problem we are faced with? After one death, the player simply hops right back in a ship and leaps back into the fray... therefore even if you make a kill you haven't really accomplished anything.
Why not have a brief period (~2-5 minutes) where the respawned player undergoes "teleportation sickness" or "respawn sickness." During this time, the player will have his/her thrust cut in half to simulate groggy reflexes... maybe even throw in some trippy lights and colors. The player is free to fly around, they can do whatever they want.. but jumping right back into combat would probably not be the best idea.
If a player is killed during teleportation sickness, they will respawn with an even longer sickness time.
The downtime isn't really there since the player could easily go mining or hop in a turret or go trading or any of Vendetta's other activities, but you wouldn't have an infinite number of "pilot X" coming back every 2 minutes in an IBG.
Also... I'd like to point out this thread here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/10788
In future missions... running may be worse than staying and fighting until the bitter end. If you have a certain area (or station) to defend, that gives players a different paradigm than "get the kill at any cost." Meaning: sure, if you run you avoid the death penalty, but you've ditched your teammates at their most dire hour.
XP hit: Many other games do this, and I've always thought a minimal xp hit would not be a bad thing (1% of total capped at 500 per category) but in a game where death comes in the blink of an eye I can see the arguments against it.
Money: making ships more expensive would not be a bad idea. I've always thought that it was a little funny that weapons usually cost more than the ship itself. A % of total money penalty for each death doesn't make sense imo... why penalize players for accumulating credits? People would simply stockpile equipment and ore instead.
Faction: we already lose faction for failing a mission, and that's the right idea. I'd be against a faction hit simply for dying in monitored space... I'd imagine that faction would be more aggrieved against the killer than you for dying. Loss of trust is another matter, but trust is really only involved when you are on a mission for that faction neh?
Escape pod/respawn delay: blah. I want to spend time in game having fun, not sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting to respawn or inching my way back to a station in an invisible escape pod. At least the escape pod would give you something to do, but a respawn timer would just be very blah.
"Death shroud"/energy/Teleportation sickness:
I really, really like this idea, I think it's a relatively straightforward solution that we have overlooked for some time.
What exactly is the problem we are faced with? After one death, the player simply hops right back in a ship and leaps back into the fray... therefore even if you make a kill you haven't really accomplished anything.
Why not have a brief period (~2-5 minutes) where the respawned player undergoes "teleportation sickness" or "respawn sickness." During this time, the player will have his/her thrust cut in half to simulate groggy reflexes... maybe even throw in some trippy lights and colors. The player is free to fly around, they can do whatever they want.. but jumping right back into combat would probably not be the best idea.
If a player is killed during teleportation sickness, they will respawn with an even longer sickness time.
The downtime isn't really there since the player could easily go mining or hop in a turret or go trading or any of Vendetta's other activities, but you wouldn't have an infinite number of "pilot X" coming back every 2 minutes in an IBG.
Also... I'd like to point out this thread here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/10788
In future missions... running may be worse than staying and fighting until the bitter end. If you have a certain area (or station) to defend, that gives players a different paradigm than "get the kill at any cost." Meaning: sure, if you run you avoid the death penalty, but you've ditched your teammates at their most dire hour.
[quote]Escape pod/respawn delay: blah. I want to spend time in game having fun, not sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting to respawn or inching my way back to a station in an invisible escape pod. At least the escape pod would give you something to do, but a respawn timer would just be very blah.
[/quote]
That's sort of the point. It discourages you from dying because you'll have to wait 15 seconds before you come back. Like I said, it gives you a sense of what eternity feels like.
But I feel like my "disembodied spirit with an unreal engine" idea would work well too.
[/quote]
That's sort of the point. It discourages you from dying because you'll have to wait 15 seconds before you come back. Like I said, it gives you a sense of what eternity feels like.
But I feel like my "disembodied spirit with an unreal engine" idea would work well too.
When will you all get it through your dense little skulls that running is not a problem, it's that the pilots that get frustrated by it are simply to lazy to chase after them to get their kills!!!!!!
john
ummm, this has absolutely nothing to do with running, its about making death mean something.
And when will YOU get it through your dense little skull that we think its YOU that has the wrong opinion. Its a messageboard, we are free to discuss what the majority perceve as a problem, if you disagree, make a coherent, sensible LOGICAL well thought out argument against it instead of being an insulting troll and posting flamebait.
Alternatively, take your head and remove it from your anal cavity and then locate the uninstall button for vendetta and use it if you dont feel that the majority of the community is interested in the game YOU want to play.
EDIT* removed actual profanity on my own, sorry he's really starting to aggrivate me
ummm, this has absolutely nothing to do with running, its about making death mean something.
And when will YOU get it through your dense little skull that we think its YOU that has the wrong opinion. Its a messageboard, we are free to discuss what the majority perceve as a problem, if you disagree, make a coherent, sensible LOGICAL well thought out argument against it instead of being an insulting troll and posting flamebait.
Alternatively, take your head and remove it from your anal cavity and then locate the uninstall button for vendetta and use it if you dont feel that the majority of the community is interested in the game YOU want to play.
EDIT* removed actual profanity on my own, sorry he's really starting to aggrivate me
now now spellcast.
/me calls over the FM to make ammends to spelly's post.
and imo the best way to make dying more of a penalty, even to people like me who dont have money/exp/whatever, is to limit the stations you can home at. maybe limiting it to capitol stations, so that people could still home in grey space.
/me calls over the FM to make ammends to spelly's post.
and imo the best way to make dying more of a penalty, even to people like me who dont have money/exp/whatever, is to limit the stations you can home at. maybe limiting it to capitol stations, so that people could still home in grey space.
I concur fully with the parent post.