i think its a good idea but,
There should be more ports for other things (shields blah blah blah ect.) Like adding a Utilities port or sumtin.

Yea, Itani will have shields and Serco will have cloak soon (tm).

I like beolach's suggestion for shields, well thought out and supports it with the backstory well. I see no major problems with what he suggested, though I think the shield should have NO limit to the size of a ship that it can generate, simply that if they wish to try and shield a ship larger then 20m that it takes a signifigant decrease in effectiveness to the point where it would be better saves and used in a different ship. That way if a char was able to reach extremely high levels, 16+ they may be able to shield ships like the rag and moth (be it short period of time).

As far as the Serco go, they should get nanite upgrades to themselves, and bonuses for flying serco special ships that are designed to integrate with the minds of serco pilots. Cloaking came late in the back story and is not necessarily a nation specific trait. UIT could potentially have scavange/procured them from grey space, and sold them thoughout the universe. There is no backstory to confirm or deny that, simply that the serco were able to get the tech and use it, as well as the OoA.

For the UIT, IMO a mass reduction just does not make sense. If it's something that's done to the ship then it should be able to be done for anyone not just one nation. The "force" ability to generate shields comes from the pilots inner strength, not tech. Same thing for serco, it's tech but it's from within the pilot, interfacing with the ship in a more efficient way. There should be some innate ability that all UIT pilots are able to do.

I like the idea that the UIT pilots are able to jump under the 3000m mark, something they developed while they were wandering space looking for a place to call home. A sort of innate direction sense if you will. They are able to plot corses that are able to avoid any dangers. Or, they have an innate ability to avoid ion storms. Would be more a game mechanics thing where they have a higher chance of avioding getting stuck in storms even if they are there to be stuck in, say 1 in 5 storms (20% chance).

Just call it a better navicomputer.

Bit of a bump here, but I think one thing was overlooked when discussing shields.

When I said, "The main appeal to me of shields is that they recharge. It makes extended firefights possible.", I neglected to explain that shields (in most games) also do not cover the entire ship as a 'second skin' kind of thing, but rather functions as a bubble with quadrants, so while it does recharge, it's also pretty easy to hit, as even a "close" shot will impact on the bubble. Getting through the shields is the first line of defense, and fairly light armor has been the secondary defense.

For example, in Freespace, a pair of the equivalent of Sunflares (or what would be equivalent) would destroy an unshielded fighter, and a few more rounds would do a heavier ship in, as well. However, you would have to deal with the shields, first.

I don't particularly like the "Itani shields nullify all damage within a certain time span" idea, because that makes it far too effective in too many situations. Just think about all the times where you were fighting and the "if only I had dodged those flares" moments, etc.

As for limiting shields to only Itani, I think that shields should go for everyone.

Re: ctishman
The reason johnhawl218 didn't want to call it a better navcomp, is because if it's a technology, then it's much harder to explain why it's restricted to one nation, than an innate ability. Even if the nation tries very very hard to keep the technology secret & restricted to their nation, eventually it WILL leak, and then other nations will have it. But personally, either for mass reduction or a better navcomp, I'd be willing to suspend my disbelief and accept that the nation is able to keep the technology secret indefinitely.

Also, even if it's not restricted to UIT, I still want to see mass reduction in the Mauds.

Re: Harry Seldon
Well, extended firefights are already very much possible. Two skilled pilots in energy spam Cents (Rev. C or IBG, w/ XGX and/or Sparrows) can duel for well over an hour, if they have the stamina for it. Why don't we see that very often? Because NOBODY has the stamina for that long of a fight. Which is why a number of people here didn't like the idea of regenerating shields - they don't want to see that long of a firefight.

Regarding shields completely nullifying all damage, yes that could make it too effective. Which is why I suggested very limited times, starting at less than a second for low-level pilots. And they would have to be manually activated. Sure, the pilot could use them to save themselves from that brace of flares - but if they mistime it, they just wasted it. Also, while the backstory isn't explicit on this, the way I interpret it, this is the way they are described.

You did read the backstory, didn't you? Only the Itani are described as being able to generate shields. And even more than that, as the game is now there's next to no differences between the different nations. Having certain nation specific traits, including shields for the Itani, would change that, which would make it much more interesting, IMO.

Would having a spherical shield make the collision detection simpler? Instead of detecting something complex like a Vulture, the weapons simply impact the shield, a sphere based on a central point inside the ship?

Just asking. (Of course then everything would be easier to hit...)

You did read the backstory, didn't you? Only the Itani are described as being able to generate shields. And even more than that, as the game is now there's next to no differences between the different nations. Having certain nation specific traits, including shields for the Itani, would change that, which would make it much more interesting, IMO.

Yes, I did. However, I was thinking that just as the serco were able to get Itani engine technology, Serco could (through some technical jiggery-pokery) find a way to reproduce Itani shields. While having nation specific traits would be interesting, it would be near impossible to balance.

Well, extended firefights are already very much possible. Two skilled pilots in energy spam Cents (Rev. C or IBG, w/ XGX and/or Sparrows) can duel for well over an hour, if they have the stamina for it. Why don't we see that very often? Because NOBODY has the stamina for that long of a fight. Which is why a number of people here didn't like the idea of regenerating shields - they don't want to see that long of a firefight.

As for the hour-long dogfights...who wants it really to be that hard to hit another ship? It's absurd how difficult it is to hit another player who's good at dodging.

As for the "shields are spheres" thing, I was thinking more along the lines of oval-shaped to match the general shape of the ship, like the blue wireframes in the following pictures:

http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/labscreenie.png
http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/coming.png

That way, stuff would be easier to hit, but not impossible. Which is something that would actually help to eliminate those hour long dogfights.

Harry, your missing the bigger point here. Itani do NOT have shield technology, AT ALL. What they do have, via the backstory, is the innate ability, through years of training there mind and body, the ability to generate a field or "shield" that is capable of deflecting energy and matter. Although it's original design and practice was for education and demonstration purposes.

The only way that I see that the Serco, UIT, Pirates, or any other corporation to "get this" would be to spend time training with an Itani monk. Now there are certainly ways that the serco could procure a high level monk and hold him in serco controled territory for the purpose of training the serco population the art of force shields, but don't think an Itani would give that informationn up to a hated enemy.

-------

As for the balancing between innate abilities. Sure each nation will have a specific thing that they are good at, and yes, no other nation, faction will be able to match it specifically, but each faction, nation should have there own unique ability that gives THEM their own advantage.

As has been mentioned before:

Itani should have force shields
Serco should have the man/machine interface
UIT/SubCorps. should have (IMO) Innate Space Direction, as mentioned previously, though there is no mentioned ability in Backstory.

Aditionally, having read some of the devwiki stuff, it's now clear that even the UIT are experimenting, if not already using man/machine interface to one extent or another. See: http://design.vendetta-online.com/wiki/index.php?title=Organizations Under BioCom and Valent. These companies are probably the ones that altered the hive to what they are today in some accident.

If this is the case with Bio/Valent then IMO, Serco that fly biocom vultures or Valent Mauds should gain the same sort of bonus that was discussed in a previous post while flying these ships.

It might be possible for Serco to create a way to generate shields, yes, but in the backstory there is no instance of that happening. Also, the way shields are described in the backstory, the "technology" of the energy focus is only half of it, just as or more important than the technology is the spiritual training and strength of the individual. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Itani are any more spiritually strong than the Serco, but the upbringing for Itani is more likely to create the defensive attitude exhibited by focusing their spiritual energy to create shields.

Of course it would be near impossible to balance: any additional variety of any type makes it more difficult to balance. But additional variety makes the game much more interesting, which makes it more fun (at least IMO) than a perfectly balanced game. The only possible way to make this game perfectly balanced is to make it so there is only one ship, only one weapon, only one battery, and remove all other variety in the game. I don't want balance that much. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to keep everything balanced, but we should realize that it's impossible, unless we're willing to sacrifice all variety. And IMO, variety is MUCH better than balance.

So, do you, or do you not want "extended firefights"? That was the reason you gave in your earlier post for wanting regenerating shields, but now you say you don't want it to be that long? Time-limited shields, like I suggested, would only add a fixed amount of time to fights; regenerative shields could easily make it impossible to destroy someone who's good at dodging, over any length of time.

my sugestion about how to handle shields is this:
The shield focus is built into every itani ship designe (the IBG and the Valk). and can be added to any other ship as an S port weaopn (or by using an equipment port if that ever get's off the ground). Now, the focus upgrade would only be available in Itani capitle and barax stations, and would require that the player have favorable Itani standing (perhaps around 600+) to purchas the device. The actual effects of the shield would then be determined by the charcter's level in a new level track. This new level track would represent the training portion of the shielde generating process, and XP in this tracjk could only be gained by completing a series of "Itani martial arts training" missions. Theese missions would be available at choice Itani stations, and would require a minimun combat level (perhaps level 2 or 3). The missions themselves would be duels against various Itani monk NPCs in variopus ships, but usualy IBGs and Valks. The duesl represent sparring matches and some of the low level missions could award XP simply for scoring a hit, while more advanced ones would require actualy breaching the monk's shield, or maybe even destroying the other ship. Now, i would perpose that the actual effect of the level track i perposed should be the strenth of the shield generated. My initial recomen dation is that any player level 1 or higher should have a shield with 300 HP, and a damage reduction value equal to 100 times their level. (these numbers can of coarse be tweeked as nesesary to generate better balance.

This system allows any player who is willing to spend the time and effort to train the ability to use shields, but it will be the least difficult for Itani players. Additionaly the effectivness of the shield is determined by the level of the character rather than any technologicle basis, and while prety much any ship can carry a shield generator, it will take up a weapon slot on any non-Itani ship design.

As far as balancing the power of a shield generator, i would recomend making ownership of a shield focus device inpose a signifigant penalty on Serco faction. So if my UIT character flys a valk throiugh serco space he looses say: 200 Serco standing, jut for owning an itani ship. This will help keep the shield exclusiove to Itani, and thereby allow Serco exclusoive weapons to be added that have a better weight to damage ratio. ownership of these weapons should then inpose a similar faction issue but reducing Itani standing instead of Serco standing.

HELLO, it's not a device, technology, or something you can hold in your hand, the shield comes from the pilot.

The spiritual energy and skill for the shield comes from the pilot, but the energy focus as described in the backstory is a technological device.

AD3816

The technology of monitoring and focusing the energy of a meditative monk has been further refined to produce an intriguing device. The so-called "Energy Focus" can be used by a highly trained monk to produce a seemingly impenetrable field, formed from a variety of spiritual life energies. The form of this field is adaptable by the thoughts of the monk, depending on the skill and abilities of the individual.

Emphasis mine.

Right but without the pilot it's useless, so adding stuff to the device without the aid of the pilot is useless and pointless. I'm merely ment that the "upgrades" in power and such should not be device depended but pilot depended. So that if a Serco was in posession of the device, they would be unable to do anything with it. It's strictly a "trained" itani device, but more specifically, the shields are really the pilots themselves. =)

That I agree with.

�johnhawl218,
you didn't read my post did you?

Honestly no, I should have shame on me. But, after reading it, everything you said for the most part has been suggested before, perhaps by you in a different thread and sounds ok, but�c

I still don't like the fact that other nations can learn it, it should be a strictly Itani thing, although I understand that anyone "could" train to gain the ability, I think the uit and serco should get there own think that is nation specific. A new path that they can train in like the shields. Serco could train in multitasking with the man/machine interface allowing them to gain speed and reaction time with their ship. And UIT could have something as well, hard to say though with no backstory to help.

i heard this in another thread but what if serco used a ship long enough and got mor combat experience in that ship maybe its own lever and for every new ship that you are flying it will reset so you have to restart your progress with any ship

I read that twice Space and I still don't understand what you're saying.

Something about the longer the pilot flys a specific ship the higher an xp bonus he gets?

sry my thoughts got jumbled %\ but if u fly a ship for long and gain combat or other experiences in it it will get a little more agile and u can fly it a little better