Forums » Suggestions
Well, let me preface this by saying that I KNOW that the Capital Ships are not even final yet, that this is a game in progress, that we are (supposed to) have regular updates, that nothing is finished, and that I have no actual experience WRITING games, just playing them.
[rant]
And yes, I am mildly angry and writing this because I followed the IDV Sola from Itan down to Bractus in the capship battle (4) today, where the team of 4 defenders just couldn't keep it alive any longer from the constant ion storms full of more-aggressive bots. I know Jestatis Bess spends a lot of time generating this player content since the devs rely on the paying players to generate most of the FUN content in the game. The frustration of not even being able to get the ship to the battlezone will probably put a damper on this weekly event.
Now to the meat of my suggestion: The pathfinding on the Capital ships is absolutely pathetic. It sucks. It is horrible - not worthy of this fine game. The ships run into asteroids frequently, and then rotate around them while in contact with them, damaging them more. The stupid elongated-fin design just makes this WORSE. It's simple: just have the capship fly away from all asteroids until there is an imaginary cylinder of clear space between it and the jump point. Then it turns toward the jump point and heads straight at it. I mean, it can't be THAT hard to do this.
When more players warp into an ion storm, more bots spawn to defeat them. A capship full of players would spawn a scary number of bots, hastening the ships' demise. Since the Capships are completely helpless against your average bots in an ion storm, why can't someone at Guild software take an hour or so of realtime to just input a new navroute into the path for the itani capship, fixing the problem? Do the same for the UIT ships and Serco ships, even ADD a few jumps in them to attempt to make the arrival in B-8 as near-simultaneous as posssible.
And, they are not called capital ships because they need to spawn from CAPITALS. You can have a capital idea in cities nowhere near a capital. Capital letters are not restricted to use in capitals of nations. The "capital" ships of the formidable US Navy do NOT have Washington DC as their home port - in fact, NONE do. And the Itani capital ships can certainly spawn in Jallik.
[/rant]
So, to recap:
1. Change the /navroute of all the capships so that they arrive in Sedina B-8 at approximately the same time, and that they avoid jumping through any asteroid fields. The same route every time would be fine.
2. Spawn the Itani capship in Jallik.
[rant]
And yes, I am mildly angry and writing this because I followed the IDV Sola from Itan down to Bractus in the capship battle (4) today, where the team of 4 defenders just couldn't keep it alive any longer from the constant ion storms full of more-aggressive bots. I know Jestatis Bess spends a lot of time generating this player content since the devs rely on the paying players to generate most of the FUN content in the game. The frustration of not even being able to get the ship to the battlezone will probably put a damper on this weekly event.
Now to the meat of my suggestion: The pathfinding on the Capital ships is absolutely pathetic. It sucks. It is horrible - not worthy of this fine game. The ships run into asteroids frequently, and then rotate around them while in contact with them, damaging them more. The stupid elongated-fin design just makes this WORSE. It's simple: just have the capship fly away from all asteroids until there is an imaginary cylinder of clear space between it and the jump point. Then it turns toward the jump point and heads straight at it. I mean, it can't be THAT hard to do this.
When more players warp into an ion storm, more bots spawn to defeat them. A capship full of players would spawn a scary number of bots, hastening the ships' demise. Since the Capships are completely helpless against your average bots in an ion storm, why can't someone at Guild software take an hour or so of realtime to just input a new navroute into the path for the itani capship, fixing the problem? Do the same for the UIT ships and Serco ships, even ADD a few jumps in them to attempt to make the arrival in B-8 as near-simultaneous as posssible.
And, they are not called capital ships because they need to spawn from CAPITALS. You can have a capital idea in cities nowhere near a capital. Capital letters are not restricted to use in capitals of nations. The "capital" ships of the formidable US Navy do NOT have Washington DC as their home port - in fact, NONE do. And the Itani capital ships can certainly spawn in Jallik.
[/rant]
So, to recap:
1. Change the /navroute of all the capships so that they arrive in Sedina B-8 at approximately the same time, and that they avoid jumping through any asteroid fields. The same route every time would be fine.
2. Spawn the Itani capship in Jallik.
Haha, I agree. However, that "And, they are not called capital ships because they need to spawn from CAPITALS." always makes me laugh, especially since that seems to be a Vendetta-specific concept.
I suppose it's understandable, this being a MMOG where anyone 13+ can join...we do get some of the "lolomgbbqwtf" crowd in games like this.. (do not bother telling me "it's worse in other games"...I know, and it still bugs me.)
*Seconds LeberMac*
I suppose it's understandable, this being a MMOG where anyone 13+ can join...we do get some of the "lolomgbbqwtf" crowd in games like this.. (do not bother telling me "it's worse in other games"...I know, and it still bugs me.)
*Seconds LeberMac*
*thirds* LeberMac. w00t!
There was only [B]1[/B] time that i saw a capship get f***ed up by bots. And i was with 4 maybe 5 GOOD players. And they couldnt keep it from getting lower than 50%.
THE CAPSHIP SUCKS!!! Add some more armour. Then make destroying a turret less drastic. Right now, if you destroy a certain turret you can fuck the capship up [B]BAD[/B] .I was able to get 2 turrets with BASIC missiles. Put more armour on it. Like i said when the devs get a new update im gonna start paying. I know thats being biased and stuff but there havent been any updates for WEEKS!
There was only [B]1[/B] time that i saw a capship get f***ed up by bots. And i was with 4 maybe 5 GOOD players. And they couldnt keep it from getting lower than 50%.
THE CAPSHIP SUCKS!!! Add some more armour. Then make destroying a turret less drastic. Right now, if you destroy a certain turret you can fuck the capship up [B]BAD[/B] .I was able to get 2 turrets with BASIC missiles. Put more armour on it. Like i said when the devs get a new update im gonna start paying. I know thats being biased and stuff but there havent been any updates for WEEKS!
Just more armour won't be of much use. What the capship needs in the armour department is damage reduction. A damage reduction of 400 would allready mean that a gatling turret doesn't do any damage and guardians are no threat anymore.
It would also mean you would have to carefully choose your weapons when you go capship hunting.
It would also mean you would have to carefully choose your weapons when you go capship hunting.
Which would also mean i cant participate as im a 2/2/1
When there aren't any updates for weeks, I would assume common knowledge would make the leap of faith and think "Maybe this is a big feature they're working on, not some silly add some race tracks and tweak a few other things update."
Food for thought.
But I do agree with that the capital ships need tons more armor along with the turrets, and the turrets could be more damaging, right now the ship is a low-tech anti-fighter ship.
Food for thought.
But I do agree with that the capital ships need tons more armor along with the turrets, and the turrets could be more damaging, right now the ship is a low-tech anti-fighter ship.
Lemming: I assume that the devs are working on the whole Hive thing. Even if they are, changing a navroute for a ship should be a simple matter.
That is, unless there is no programming capability to give NPC ships a navroute, which is what I suspect. I believe that currently, there is no navroute capability for ANY npc vessels, just a begin point and an end point.
So, I'll add a third suggestion:
3. Develop custom navroute capablity for NPC's. Especially CtC ships, and mandatory for the capships.
Technically this would have to be done before my other suggestions.
That is, unless there is no programming capability to give NPC ships a navroute, which is what I suspect. I believe that currently, there is no navroute capability for ANY npc vessels, just a begin point and an end point.
So, I'll add a third suggestion:
3. Develop custom navroute capablity for NPC's. Especially CtC ships, and mandatory for the capships.
Technically this would have to be done before my other suggestions.
Simple yet brilliant sugestions:
1. Give the Heavy Assualt Cruisers surface shields that relect energy attacks only, but missles and other things cause damadge to the shields.
2. Make them move less and make them stay out of asteroid fields.
3. Make the turrets rise up off the hull giving them a larger radius.
4. Make the turrets be more diverse in what they shoot according to their position on the chassis.
Any more things that I missed?
~Cpt. Overkill~
1. Give the Heavy Assualt Cruisers surface shields that relect energy attacks only, but missles and other things cause damadge to the shields.
2. Make them move less and make them stay out of asteroid fields.
3. Make the turrets rise up off the hull giving them a larger radius.
4. Make the turrets be more diverse in what they shoot according to their position on the chassis.
Any more things that I missed?
~Cpt. Overkill~
A few quick clarifications:
-There was just a server update, which is why the bots are so hostile to cap ships in storms now. So you see, there was an update recently. Let us not forget the devwiki which takes a great deal of time. Oh, and interviewing new development team members. It's all in the News section.
-The "capital ships" were nicknamed before they ever spawned anywhere. It has nothing to do with being spawned at the captials.
-The captial ships flight to Sedina is a temporary feature that was intended to amuse those who were begging to have the big ships in the game "...even if they don't move". It was simply an attempt to provide a little content while some of the more complicated aspects of the cap ships were ironed out. Because it is a temporary feature, making kluge fixes is a waste of time. They are working on the "big picture" issue that is at the root of the problem. Doing things The Right Way takes time and patience. Some of the suggestions made in this thread involve doing things The Right Way. It takes time and experimentation.
-There was just a server update, which is why the bots are so hostile to cap ships in storms now. So you see, there was an update recently. Let us not forget the devwiki which takes a great deal of time. Oh, and interviewing new development team members. It's all in the News section.
-The "capital ships" were nicknamed before they ever spawned anywhere. It has nothing to do with being spawned at the captials.
-The captial ships flight to Sedina is a temporary feature that was intended to amuse those who were begging to have the big ships in the game "...even if they don't move". It was simply an attempt to provide a little content while some of the more complicated aspects of the cap ships were ironed out. Because it is a temporary feature, making kluge fixes is a waste of time. They are working on the "big picture" issue that is at the root of the problem. Doing things The Right Way takes time and patience. Some of the suggestions made in this thread involve doing things The Right Way. It takes time and experimentation.
Thanks, FM. I'm not trying to say that the wonderful folks at Guild Software are dragging their feet on anything. Heh. However...
I'd like a quick clarification from one of the devs on this point (or someone else in the know):
Is there currently a way to give NPC ships a navroute?
•If not, then nevermind building this into the game at the moment. I retract suggestions #1 #3.
•If so, can someone please alter the path to go around asteroids?
And spawning the IDV Sola in Jallik should be eeeeeee-zzzzzzz. Right? The capships might actually arrive in B8 at about the same time, then. C'mon, throw me a bone here...
I'd like a quick clarification from one of the devs on this point (or someone else in the know):
Is there currently a way to give NPC ships a navroute?
•If not, then nevermind building this into the game at the moment. I retract suggestions #1 #3.
•If so, can someone please alter the path to go around asteroids?
And spawning the IDV Sola in Jallik should be eeeeeee-zzzzzzz. Right? The capships might actually arrive in B8 at about the same time, then. C'mon, throw me a bone here...
I understand that the Cap Ships are currently in their test phase. I guess after seeing them work well at times I forget.
I’m sure everyone knows about the Ultimate/ Planned Capital Ship Battles I plan every week. I’m thinking about canceling them because it has gotten impossible to keep the Cap ships alive.
The UIT had to escort and hold their ship for more then an hour while the Itani ship got in position. The UIT lost about 80% in the last battle in ONE ion storm. (Only 5 players were with the cap ship in the storm) The Itani had almost 3 hours of escort duty and only 12 minutes of “fun”. The Itani ship went through numerous storms. And we had to concentrate all our efforts to healing it. It was finally kill in a storm.
I know sarahanne suggested that this become a weekly event so players can experience the cap ships and have a little fun. And also new players can experience the cap ships too. Unless some changes are made to the cap ships it doesn’t seem worth the time or effort to have a weekly event.
I want to thank Sherpa and sarahanne for there help in recent weeks. There help has been invaluable. But I’m also getting lass help from them. When I needed them during the last battle they weren’t readily available. I know they have lives and don’t want to spend 4 hours on a Saturday in VO. But without them this whole thing falls apart.
Like I said I understand this is a test, but the amount of effort it takes to plan these battles and spend hours escorting our ships seems unreasonable. I started this so the players could have a little more content and have some fun. The bots seem like the only ones having fun.
I once again want to thank the developers and guides for their help. Without them we wouldn’t have a game at all.
I’m sure everyone knows about the Ultimate/ Planned Capital Ship Battles I plan every week. I’m thinking about canceling them because it has gotten impossible to keep the Cap ships alive.
The UIT had to escort and hold their ship for more then an hour while the Itani ship got in position. The UIT lost about 80% in the last battle in ONE ion storm. (Only 5 players were with the cap ship in the storm) The Itani had almost 3 hours of escort duty and only 12 minutes of “fun”. The Itani ship went through numerous storms. And we had to concentrate all our efforts to healing it. It was finally kill in a storm.
I know sarahanne suggested that this become a weekly event so players can experience the cap ships and have a little fun. And also new players can experience the cap ships too. Unless some changes are made to the cap ships it doesn’t seem worth the time or effort to have a weekly event.
I want to thank Sherpa and sarahanne for there help in recent weeks. There help has been invaluable. But I’m also getting lass help from them. When I needed them during the last battle they weren’t readily available. I know they have lives and don’t want to spend 4 hours on a Saturday in VO. But without them this whole thing falls apart.
Like I said I understand this is a test, but the amount of effort it takes to plan these battles and spend hours escorting our ships seems unreasonable. I started this so the players could have a little more content and have some fun. The bots seem like the only ones having fun.
I once again want to thank the developers and guides for their help. Without them we wouldn’t have a game at all.
</rant>FM: While I have a deep respect for Guild software's efforts and energies put into Vendetta-Online, the player-base is starving for some new content (and a few fixes to existing game elements/features). Yes, the hive wiki outline was a neat revelation in the unfolding of the VO universe. There are likely great things to come. And, yes, interviewing new personnel does take significant time/effort (been there). And, yes, moving an office is a bxtch and can bring work to a standstill for the duration.
Yet the occasional game update (and communication out to the player-base even with server-side updates) would truly help those paying for these activities to keep the faith in the game. I'm not asking for the world, just a new widget or two with which to occupy my time while the big features are implemented.</rant>
Here's a constructive idea to balance the rant (and this is slightly off-topic, too): provide the player-base with a rough idea on what it will take to:
1) Acquire a cap ship once they are available to individuals or guilds. Something tells me that it will take more than just credits for a guild to buy cap ships. Clue the community in... will we need to acquire massive quantities of ore? Will those who place the 'purchase order' for a cap ship need to have certain licenses currently available in the game? Knowing some of these things might give folks interim goals to achieve.
2) What would it really take to take down a Leviathan? [Yes, I read the Guild wiki on Leviathan survivability against a guild assault with 50 ships.] Right now, cap ships are a joke when it comes to offensive capability (hey, it is the truth) and thus would only play a hospital ship or sacrificial lamb role in a Leviathan assault. So, rule them out in their current incarnation.
One scenario of which I can think is the hypothetical launch of ~forty Rags (and other assorted ships) armed to the teeth with missiles, rockets and high-powered energy weapons against a Stronghold. That type of force could take down the surrounding queens without a huge problem. The resulting splash damage might be incredible enough to cause significant damage to the Leviathan. Enter the second assault force of missile/rocket boats. A third if req'd. Boom.
Or is there some new piece of equipment (or group of equipment) designed for heavier assault of which the player-base is unaware?
As has been said before: please throw us a bone towards which we can work. Thank you for your continued efforts, Guild.
Yet the occasional game update (and communication out to the player-base even with server-side updates) would truly help those paying for these activities to keep the faith in the game. I'm not asking for the world, just a new widget or two with which to occupy my time while the big features are implemented.</rant>
Here's a constructive idea to balance the rant (and this is slightly off-topic, too): provide the player-base with a rough idea on what it will take to:
1) Acquire a cap ship once they are available to individuals or guilds. Something tells me that it will take more than just credits for a guild to buy cap ships. Clue the community in... will we need to acquire massive quantities of ore? Will those who place the 'purchase order' for a cap ship need to have certain licenses currently available in the game? Knowing some of these things might give folks interim goals to achieve.
2) What would it really take to take down a Leviathan? [Yes, I read the Guild wiki on Leviathan survivability against a guild assault with 50 ships.] Right now, cap ships are a joke when it comes to offensive capability (hey, it is the truth) and thus would only play a hospital ship or sacrificial lamb role in a Leviathan assault. So, rule them out in their current incarnation.
One scenario of which I can think is the hypothetical launch of ~forty Rags (and other assorted ships) armed to the teeth with missiles, rockets and high-powered energy weapons against a Stronghold. That type of force could take down the surrounding queens without a huge problem. The resulting splash damage might be incredible enough to cause significant damage to the Leviathan. Enter the second assault force of missile/rocket boats. A third if req'd. Boom.
Or is there some new piece of equipment (or group of equipment) designed for heavier assault of which the player-base is unaware?
As has been said before: please throw us a bone towards which we can work. Thank you for your continued efforts, Guild.
LOL LeberMac LOL
When I started the cap ship battle I knew the ships was in its testing phase. But as always you are right, it’s ridiculous. We were doing quite well till Edras I7 (It think). There is NO WAY A CAP SHIP SHOULD DIE IN ONE STORM. Not 2 or 3 storms just 1 storm. And only 2 people with the ship. I know the cap ship is useless and so does everyone else. But still 1 storm and BOOM!!! That’s crazy.
I would like to plead with the developers: Please fix the darn ship ASAP. Like we said 2 weeks ago, it’s no fun for anyone if our ships can’t get to the start of the battle or if our ship dies in a storm immediately (happened 2 weeks ago).
Please, Please and PLEASE fix it now. I see no point having the cap ship battles if the UIT always win by default. (By default I mean the Itani ship dies early and the Itani are ALWAYS going to kill the Serco ship first. ALWAYS!!! The Serco can’t win even if they did have the numbers)
We as players are adding content (I would say good content) to your game (I might say our game). We need your support to make this work. I know you are busy, but if you aren’t going to fix the cap ship path finding at least come in game and help us out. DevWarp the cap ships to their ready position for us. It will only take you 10 min but it would really mean a lot to us. And instead of wait 1 to 2 hours we could start immediately.
Support goes both ways. We support you, can you please support us too.
I more thing :) Guides where are you? The cap ship battles can’t work without a guide online 1 hour before the battle till its conclusion. I/We need you too. Where were you? I still thank “Guide66576”, but s/he didn’t stay for the conclusion to award combat xp :(
I said my peace. I will continue the cap ship battle weather we get any help or not. But I would like some help here.
As always your suggestions, comments and opinions are welcome.
JB
When I started the cap ship battle I knew the ships was in its testing phase. But as always you are right, it’s ridiculous. We were doing quite well till Edras I7 (It think). There is NO WAY A CAP SHIP SHOULD DIE IN ONE STORM. Not 2 or 3 storms just 1 storm. And only 2 people with the ship. I know the cap ship is useless and so does everyone else. But still 1 storm and BOOM!!! That’s crazy.
I would like to plead with the developers: Please fix the darn ship ASAP. Like we said 2 weeks ago, it’s no fun for anyone if our ships can’t get to the start of the battle or if our ship dies in a storm immediately (happened 2 weeks ago).
Please, Please and PLEASE fix it now. I see no point having the cap ship battles if the UIT always win by default. (By default I mean the Itani ship dies early and the Itani are ALWAYS going to kill the Serco ship first. ALWAYS!!! The Serco can’t win even if they did have the numbers)
We as players are adding content (I would say good content) to your game (I might say our game). We need your support to make this work. I know you are busy, but if you aren’t going to fix the cap ship path finding at least come in game and help us out. DevWarp the cap ships to their ready position for us. It will only take you 10 min but it would really mean a lot to us. And instead of wait 1 to 2 hours we could start immediately.
Support goes both ways. We support you, can you please support us too.
I more thing :) Guides where are you? The cap ship battles can’t work without a guide online 1 hour before the battle till its conclusion. I/We need you too. Where were you? I still thank “Guide66576”, but s/he didn’t stay for the conclusion to award combat xp :(
I said my peace. I will continue the cap ship battle weather we get any help or not. But I would like some help here.
As always your suggestions, comments and opinions are welcome.
JB
Having participated in the first two cap ship battles before my hiring was decided upon, I'd just like to thank JestatisBess for organizing; I had a lot of fun.
I'm currently transitioning from another job, and just finished moving (but not unpacking), so I've had very little time to learn from the other devs and not much more to read through the code. I really wanted to help this past battle (Jun 5) run smoothly, but, unfortunately, I wasn't able to help at all this time. I spent a couple hours beforehand looking for the devwarp related code, and I called around for help, but I didn't get the answers in time.
I promise you all, and Jestatis personally, that, at the very least, I'll be ready to make sure all 3 ships make it to their destinations intact and on-time whenever the next event is scheduled.
I'm currently transitioning from another job, and just finished moving (but not unpacking), so I've had very little time to learn from the other devs and not much more to read through the code. I really wanted to help this past battle (Jun 5) run smoothly, but, unfortunately, I wasn't able to help at all this time. I spent a couple hours beforehand looking for the devwarp related code, and I called around for help, but I didn't get the answers in time.
I promise you all, and Jestatis personally, that, at the very least, I'll be ready to make sure all 3 ships make it to their destinations intact and on-time whenever the next event is scheduled.
OK I’m going to say it: I love the new developer. Yes I love him :)
(I love all the old developers and guides too; I just love the new one more right now :)
momerath42: did you actually participate in this battle? If so which character name? And which side were you on? (If you don’t mind telling us) I know u were there for awhile as an Itani but u didn’t go into battle with us.
As always without your (developers and guides) support we as players can’t do anything.
Thanks again :)
JB
(I love all the old developers and guides too; I just love the new one more right now :)
momerath42: did you actually participate in this battle? If so which character name? And which side were you on? (If you don’t mind telling us) I know u were there for awhile as an Itani but u didn’t go into battle with us.
As always without your (developers and guides) support we as players can’t do anything.
Thanks again :)
JB
Yes, I'm rather digging him too. :D
He was there for a while before the battle started, but as he said:
I really wanted to help this past battle (Jun 5) run smoothly, but, unfortunately, I wasn't able to help at all this time.
His ingame name is Orana Rath, and he's Itani! w00t. :P
He was there for a while before the battle started, but as he said:
I really wanted to help this past battle (Jun 5) run smoothly, but, unfortunately, I wasn't able to help at all this time.
His ingame name is Orana Rath, and he's Itani! w00t. :P
Off Topic: (sorry)
I now he wasn't able to help out because he wasn't trained yet. He didn't have his super powers yet. But in time he will have them.
I don't know him but I like me he’s a newbie. (I only started in November) I haven't been able to get to know the other developers. I hope we all get to know him, as a supporting friend and not just as a developer.
JB
(No offence to any developer out there. I know you know a lot of the older alpha/beta players, but I think you might have lost touch with the newer players. Maybe because of your limited time in game and maybe because there are so many newer players. We still love you but the new developer will help us feel more apart of the game and that someone is actually listening to us :)
I now he wasn't able to help out because he wasn't trained yet. He didn't have his super powers yet. But in time he will have them.
I don't know him but I like me he’s a newbie. (I only started in November) I haven't been able to get to know the other developers. I hope we all get to know him, as a supporting friend and not just as a developer.
JB
(No offence to any developer out there. I know you know a lot of the older alpha/beta players, but I think you might have lost touch with the newer players. Maybe because of your limited time in game and maybe because there are so many newer players. We still love you but the new developer will help us feel more apart of the game and that someone is actually listening to us :)
Andy and I went over all the relevant code last night, and, at the least, I can set the capships to start wherever you guys think is best. So, first of all, let me know exactly where you think the capships should be started from, keeping in mind that they will take the shortest route from there to the destination (which I can change too if you want).
We are also working on making the number of bots per player more reasonable, so that it makes sense to escort the capships and defend them. I'm not sure if this will be in place for our next battle, though.
I know Andy is also hard at work on the murky problems of pathfinding, but I think we're just going to have to work around that for now.
We are also working on making the number of bots per player more reasonable, so that it makes sense to escort the capships and defend them. I'm not sure if this will be in place for our next battle, though.
I know Andy is also hard at work on the murky problems of pathfinding, but I think we're just going to have to work around that for now.
I say Hive first, then capships. But if you're looking for something to do...
I think spawning in Jallik would make the whole thing easier. E-15. The ships might even arrive at almost the same time.
And as far as /navroutes, can you plot them for the capships? If so, then I suggest a special route for ALL capships that take them away from any possible asteroid fields.
I think spawning in Jallik would make the whole thing easier. E-15. The ships might even arrive at almost the same time.
And as far as /navroutes, can you plot them for the capships? If so, then I suggest a special route for ALL capships that take them away from any possible asteroid fields.
We are concentrating on the Hive before we really make the capships the way we want, but its trivial for me to change where they start from and/or go to. We can't plot navroutes for capships (well, we could, but it would be a lot of tedious hard-coding). I'll make the Sola start from Jallik E-15; are there any other minor changes that would help?