Forums » Suggestions
who would build a cap ship?
a thought just occured to me when i was reading the in progress post, why would any nation spend time and considerable resources building a capital class frigate when they are so easily destoyed by a few pilots who know what they are doing? I know it is fun blowing the things up and i enjoy manning the turrets but, as exocet missile attacks in the falklands war showed, the possiblity of losing a massive great warship to a single fighter/bomber packing, a good missile, will soon prompt the building of better defenses - I would expect an early warning radar system to pick up hostile craft and despatch seekers to intercept, auto-targetting gatling turrets ( capable of targeting incoming missiles), and escort fighters to take on incoming bombers, the electronic counter measures department would jam enemy radar and communications, as well as disrupting homing missiles. The capship should be the ultimate projection of power in the universe, (like the modern day US Navy carriers), not as they currently are ... sitting ducks! comments please
I think the capships are mainly out there now for testing. They fly to b8 and fight each other so that the devs can see what goes wrong when they do, and what issues come up in a capship battle (such as lag and navigational issues) so they can fix them. I imagine that once they are satisfied that the caps are stable, they will put them into some sort of rp context beyond just a free-for-all.
Yeah, the capship pathfinding needs to be improved significantly to avoid the ol' Drunken Joe Hazelwood-captain routine.
And we need some serious upgrades to the weaponry on those badboys. I know that this is part of the testing, but the capships need main guns and better defense-in-depth defensive weaponry.
Longer-range weapons for the capships are a MUST. Right now, the AGT's can barely fire past the nose of the ship.
And we need some serious upgrades to the weaponry on those badboys. I know that this is part of the testing, but the capships need main guns and better defense-in-depth defensive weaponry.
Longer-range weapons for the capships are a MUST. Right now, the AGT's can barely fire past the nose of the ship.
I'm sure once the devs make it so capships stop crashing into everything and stop randomly exploding, the devs will make Frigates much more fearsome. Fearsome meaning, the only way to take them out would be to use an organized assault group. I think that would be best done if the capship has some kind of large cannon to counter other capships, and the turrets onboard should have a much higher velocity, so they can't be so easily dodged.
Did anyone see the dev-cap in B8 that had the wonderful plethora of guass? It was nutz! Must have had twenty plus guass cannons. A cap ship designed to take out a cap ship.
Seeing that made me realize the devs definately have some interesting load outs in mind.
Seeing that made me realize the devs definately have some interesting load outs in mind.
You haven't seen beam cannons yet, have you?
Gauss instead of AGT? That's cool. Make it a special gauss with triple the range and a velocity of 250 m/s, and I'm happy. I may be DEAD more often, but killing a capship will become more difficult than it is now.
And - BEAM cannons? Whaaaat? Roguelazer you MUST tell us ALL!
And - BEAM cannons? Whaaaat? Roguelazer you MUST tell us ALL!
* [4:30] Harry Seldon echoes LeberMac.
Though, during my turret-gunner experiences, it has seemed that there are some problems with the turret being able to track a target, and have the bolts travel in a straight line. While I know that the cap ship may be changing direction and thus affecting the trajectory of the bolts compared to my turret, it almost seems like I'm firing into a hurricane that is blowing all my shots to one side.
On the topic of beam cannons, that would be way too cool. I think that if we paired lighter capital ships, like a picket ship, with larger ships to make it interesting. My idea for this would involve a larger ship with a bigger beam, and the picket ships having a couple smaller anti-fighter beams. Or something. I dunno if we should allow players to control beams, since it could become too powerful in a player's hands.
Also, it seems that the capital ship itself is just a tad small. In other games like Freespace, things were more to scale, and it could take a bit of time to even fly from one end of a cap to another. Our current cap ship is more like a picket ship size (maybe a little bigger), come to think of it.
Though, during my turret-gunner experiences, it has seemed that there are some problems with the turret being able to track a target, and have the bolts travel in a straight line. While I know that the cap ship may be changing direction and thus affecting the trajectory of the bolts compared to my turret, it almost seems like I'm firing into a hurricane that is blowing all my shots to one side.
On the topic of beam cannons, that would be way too cool. I think that if we paired lighter capital ships, like a picket ship, with larger ships to make it interesting. My idea for this would involve a larger ship with a bigger beam, and the picket ships having a couple smaller anti-fighter beams. Or something. I dunno if we should allow players to control beams, since it could become too powerful in a player's hands.
Also, it seems that the capital ship itself is just a tad small. In other games like Freespace, things were more to scale, and it could take a bit of time to even fly from one end of a cap to another. Our current cap ship is more like a picket ship size (maybe a little bigger), come to think of it.
The cap ship should have a morbidly obese rail gun in between the two rails on the front.
That makes it good for killing other cap ships.
If you would give the thing splash damage, the ooooh mama then we are really cookin' with gas.
On a separate note, the capships should also have two layers of shields before you get to the armour.
1. A big bubble shield that becomes visible when something hits it. When pilots ask do dock, the bubble goes down and doubles the secondary shield for the 30 sec.
2. A surface sheild would be the protector of the cap ship absorbing anything it gets hit by protecting the armour.
3. The armour.... well you know that part of the story all too well.
These two shields posses similar to the same concept with the armour of the SPARTAN's in HALO 1 & 2
~Cpt. Overkill~
That makes it good for killing other cap ships.
If you would give the thing splash damage, the ooooh mama then we are really cookin' with gas.
On a separate note, the capships should also have two layers of shields before you get to the armour.
1. A big bubble shield that becomes visible when something hits it. When pilots ask do dock, the bubble goes down and doubles the secondary shield for the 30 sec.
2. A surface sheild would be the protector of the cap ship absorbing anything it gets hit by protecting the armour.
3. The armour.... well you know that part of the story all too well.
These two shields posses similar to the same concept with the armour of the SPARTAN's in HALO 1 & 2
~Cpt. Overkill~
Yays! Itani shielding!
On a more serious note, yes, it would seem that Itani caps would have sheilding (by multiple monks), and thus be more maneuverable, and likely not as much weaponry. Serco would have tons of armor and weaponry, whereas the UIT would have lots of weaponry unused in Serco/Itani space, developed specifically for UIT, and...something else, to help teh UIT out. :P
On a more serious note, yes, it would seem that Itani caps would have sheilding (by multiple monks), and thus be more maneuverable, and likely not as much weaponry. Serco would have tons of armor and weaponry, whereas the UIT would have lots of weaponry unused in Serco/Itani space, developed specifically for UIT, and...something else, to help teh UIT out. :P
The way I read it, larger shields are more difficult for Itani monks to maintain, so IMO Valkyries should have shielding before Itani cap ships.
Eilon, the Abbot of the temple on Eo, does manage to shield a capital size ship in the backstory, but he died from doing so, and in any case I would expect he was rather more adept than most monks.
Eilon, the Abbot of the temple on Eo, does manage to shield a capital size ship in the backstory, but he died from doing so, and in any case I would expect he was rather more adept than most monks.
For close in defence, the caps need a few more stratigically placed turrents, or the turrents need a lot more armor. If you take out just two turrents in the right places, you leave a gapping hole in it's defence. And it's not that hard to take out a couple of turrents.
I view the caps as spaceship carriers. Thier ranged offence is in the fighter ships they carry. Caps are like mobile stations, in that they repair your ship every time you dock. I think they are much to difficult to dock with.
In this perspective, caps should never engage each other directly. They would approach to strike range (1000m?) and launch thier fighters. A cap without it's fighter support, is salvage.
recap:
more turrents and/or better turrent armor.
easier docking.
keep caps 1000+m apart.
I view the caps as spaceship carriers. Thier ranged offence is in the fighter ships they carry. Caps are like mobile stations, in that they repair your ship every time you dock. I think they are much to difficult to dock with.
In this perspective, caps should never engage each other directly. They would approach to strike range (1000m?) and launch thier fighters. A cap without it's fighter support, is salvage.
recap:
more turrents and/or better turrent armor.
easier docking.
keep caps 1000+m apart.
On a designers note; the cap ships should have less windows.
Unlike a station, they are tools of war.
Wouldn't kind of suck if you were a passenger and some missle flies through your window killing you and breaking the air pressure in the area killing more people.
Replace the cap ships windows with turets, broadside cannons, shield generators, rail gun batteries, tractor beams, mining beams, docking ports, extra engines, missle pods, space torpedoe tubes, cargo holds, extra armour, ammunition stores, antennas, and fighter or bot bays.
Let me remind you people that space has no friction or surface tension so the damn thing can be as bulky as a planet and still move at the same speed.
Many things on the above list arn't on the cap ship or even in Vendetta Online for that matter but we can expand and belive me; we need to!
~Cpt. Overkill~
Unlike a station, they are tools of war.
Wouldn't kind of suck if you were a passenger and some missle flies through your window killing you and breaking the air pressure in the area killing more people.
Replace the cap ships windows with turets, broadside cannons, shield generators, rail gun batteries, tractor beams, mining beams, docking ports, extra engines, missle pods, space torpedoe tubes, cargo holds, extra armour, ammunition stores, antennas, and fighter or bot bays.
Let me remind you people that space has no friction or surface tension so the damn thing can be as bulky as a planet and still move at the same speed.
Many things on the above list arn't on the cap ship or even in Vendetta Online for that matter but we can expand and belive me; we need to!
~Cpt. Overkill~
How many turrets do the current Heavy Cruisers have? It is of course comparing apples to oranges, but it's interesting to note that according to the British Royal Navy's rating system back in the day of sailing ships, a "Capital" ship would be a ship of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rate, which means it would have a minimum of 64 guns.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_system_of_the_Royal_Navy for more info.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_system_of_the_Royal_Navy for more info.
Looking at my stats sheet, the I.J.N. Yamato (the largest, arguably most powerful battleship of World War II) at the end of its lifetime (November, 1944), mounted:
9x 46cm (18.1") cannons mounted on triple turrets
6x 15.5cm (6.1") cannons mounted on triple turrets
24x 12.7cm (5") cannons twin mounted
152x 25mm MG triple mountings and single mountings
4 x 13mm MG twin mountings.
or:
3x 46cm triple mount turrets (mounted centerline)
2x 15.5cm triple mount turrets (mounted centerline)
12x 12.7cm twin turrets (mounted broadside)
unknown, but more than 50x 25mm MG triple and single mount anti-aircraft turrets (spread across the hull)
2x 13mm MG twin anti-aircraft turrets. (on the superstructure)
which totals to 70 or more turrets (though "only" 54 or so are devoted to anti-aircraft).
Though the main reason for the large number of turrets is because each individual machine gun couldn't fire at a very high rate. With the introduction of the gating gun, a single gun could fire many times faster than previously, so guns were removed from older ships. I think the Iowa class battleships ended up with 4 Phalanx CIWS replacing all of the old anti-aircraft cannons. The main guns and the 5" cannons were kept, I think. If it had survived, the Yamato's entire MG battery would be replaced with probably 6 Phalanx CIWS, and maybe some of the 5" cannons would be removed.
But I would really like to see some more diversity in the weapons mounted on the cap ship for the testing period. Maybe 4-6 railgun turrets, 4-6 missile launchers, and the rest be gatling turrets. Just to keep those MGCs on their toes.
(and a slight pet-peeve of mine is when you mount weapons so they can elevate and rotate independent of the ship, you mount them on turrets. Not turrents, not turets.)
9x 46cm (18.1") cannons mounted on triple turrets
6x 15.5cm (6.1") cannons mounted on triple turrets
24x 12.7cm (5") cannons twin mounted
152x 25mm MG triple mountings and single mountings
4 x 13mm MG twin mountings.
or:
3x 46cm triple mount turrets (mounted centerline)
2x 15.5cm triple mount turrets (mounted centerline)
12x 12.7cm twin turrets (mounted broadside)
unknown, but more than 50x 25mm MG triple and single mount anti-aircraft turrets (spread across the hull)
2x 13mm MG twin anti-aircraft turrets. (on the superstructure)
which totals to 70 or more turrets (though "only" 54 or so are devoted to anti-aircraft).
Though the main reason for the large number of turrets is because each individual machine gun couldn't fire at a very high rate. With the introduction of the gating gun, a single gun could fire many times faster than previously, so guns were removed from older ships. I think the Iowa class battleships ended up with 4 Phalanx CIWS replacing all of the old anti-aircraft cannons. The main guns and the 5" cannons were kept, I think. If it had survived, the Yamato's entire MG battery would be replaced with probably 6 Phalanx CIWS, and maybe some of the 5" cannons would be removed.
But I would really like to see some more diversity in the weapons mounted on the cap ship for the testing period. Maybe 4-6 railgun turrets, 4-6 missile launchers, and the rest be gatling turrets. Just to keep those MGCs on their toes.
(and a slight pet-peeve of mine is when you mount weapons so they can elevate and rotate independent of the ship, you mount them on turrets. Not turrents, not turets.)
Bumped. IMHO, the capships should start having weaponry "upgrades" asap for larger-scale in-game testing. That could entail adding a bank of homing missiles one day or a bank of neutron blasters the next. Of course, gauss or rails would be nice, too. :-D
...That is, unless, there are internally-known issues with equiping the ship in this manner.
...That is, unless, there are internally-known issues with equiping the ship in this manner.
I like that idea. But what if the ships where designated ANEW like. Remeber this is WEIGHT wise.
1000-3000 Light Fighters
3000-5000 Medium Fighters
5000-7000 Heavy Fighters
70000-90000 Light Trade Ships
90000-110000 Medium Trade Ships
110000-130000 Heavy Trade Ships
1300000-1500000 Frigates
1500000-1700000 Warships
1700000-1900000 Destroyers
1900000-2100000 Capships
2100000-2300000 Carriers
2300000-2500000 Flagships
NOW it can begin! hehe. If liked, I WANT 21/2 KUDOS!!!!
1000-3000 Light Fighters
3000-5000 Medium Fighters
5000-7000 Heavy Fighters
70000-90000 Light Trade Ships
90000-110000 Medium Trade Ships
110000-130000 Heavy Trade Ships
1300000-1500000 Frigates
1500000-1700000 Warships
1700000-1900000 Destroyers
1900000-2100000 Capships
2100000-2300000 Carriers
2300000-2500000 Flagships
NOW it can begin! hehe. If liked, I WANT 21/2 KUDOS!!!!
Hmmmmm your onto something.
A few nights ago I was thinking that all the ships in VO should get buffed up and have bigger models of new ships.
~Cpt. Overkill~
A few nights ago I was thinking that all the ships in VO should get buffed up and have bigger models of new ships.
~Cpt. Overkill~
you never seen beam cannons? n00bs... =P
yeah, I can't wait for these bad boys.
yeah, I can't wait for these bad boys.