Forums » Suggestions
How to Introduce Interactive Bars and Dockable Planets Without Much Work (Borrowed from Another Space Sim)
«12Re: Harry Seldon
Perhaps another short term solution is to have player avatars to give us individuality?
The problem with avatars is that they would have to be scanned for offensive content. Now, what could be done is there could be a set of 30 or so different 'faces' that are provided in game that you could select from. Sure, there would be some people with the same look... but, as it is right now, the same is true for ships (just on a larger scale)
I agree with Deku about planets. This is not supposed to be a MMOFPS, but a MMORPG. I think that's what resulted in me taking a month break away from the game. There's definitely some immersiveness missing. I feel that the devs are aware of this and doing the best they can to provide some sort of relief. I do think that dockable planets in the proposed 'jump animation'-type model would be very interesting. But once you are on the planet, would it just present you with another interface that looks like a station? IMO, it should be very different from stations.
Perhaps another short term solution is to have player avatars to give us individuality?
The problem with avatars is that they would have to be scanned for offensive content. Now, what could be done is there could be a set of 30 or so different 'faces' that are provided in game that you could select from. Sure, there would be some people with the same look... but, as it is right now, the same is true for ships (just on a larger scale)
I agree with Deku about planets. This is not supposed to be a MMOFPS, but a MMORPG. I think that's what resulted in me taking a month break away from the game. There's definitely some immersiveness missing. I feel that the devs are aware of this and doing the best they can to provide some sort of relief. I do think that dockable planets in the proposed 'jump animation'-type model would be very interesting. But once you are on the planet, would it just present you with another interface that looks like a station? IMO, it should be very different from stations.
Re: kihjin
> But once you are on the planet, would it just present you with another interface
> that looks like a station? IMO, it should be very different from stations.
Kihjin, have you taken a look at how planets are implemented in the single-player, free open-source space sim Vega Strike ( see http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ )? Their implementation is based on still screens with links to various spots, such as Mission Computer, Tube to Shipyards, Tube to Trade Center, Bar, and Hangar. Many of these spots are present in stations as well, but because of the layout of the links on the screens, the planets feel different.
For example, on the Main Concourse of the Oceanic Planet, the link to "Tube to Trade Center" leads to another screen with beautiful transparent transport tubes in the ocean. One of the links overlayed on one of them is "Continue to Trade Facilities." Clicking on this link leads to a screen with an underwater dome labelled "Trade Cargo." Clicking on this dome then leads the player to the Cargo Dealer transaction screen.
These intermediate screens add a feeling of space to the planet.
On a space mining base, there are fewer intermediate screens. From the Main Concourse, clicking on "Trade Center" (instead of "Tube to Trade Center"), for instance, leads immediately to a large hold with links to "Trade Cargo," "Upgrade Facilities," and "Landing Bay." The simple lack of the option "Continue to Trade Facilities" in the interim, coupled with the lack of any transport tubes in between and the additional link to a "Landing Bay" from the same space, contributes to the feeling of a relatively cramped space appropriate to a mining base.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> But once you are on the planet, would it just present you with another interface
> that looks like a station? IMO, it should be very different from stations.
Kihjin, have you taken a look at how planets are implemented in the single-player, free open-source space sim Vega Strike ( see http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ )? Their implementation is based on still screens with links to various spots, such as Mission Computer, Tube to Shipyards, Tube to Trade Center, Bar, and Hangar. Many of these spots are present in stations as well, but because of the layout of the links on the screens, the planets feel different.
For example, on the Main Concourse of the Oceanic Planet, the link to "Tube to Trade Center" leads to another screen with beautiful transparent transport tubes in the ocean. One of the links overlayed on one of them is "Continue to Trade Facilities." Clicking on this link leads to a screen with an underwater dome labelled "Trade Cargo." Clicking on this dome then leads the player to the Cargo Dealer transaction screen.
These intermediate screens add a feeling of space to the planet.
On a space mining base, there are fewer intermediate screens. From the Main Concourse, clicking on "Trade Center" (instead of "Tube to Trade Center"), for instance, leads immediately to a large hold with links to "Trade Cargo," "Upgrade Facilities," and "Landing Bay." The simple lack of the option "Continue to Trade Facilities" in the interim, coupled with the lack of any transport tubes in between and the additional link to a "Landing Bay" from the same space, contributes to the feeling of a relatively cramped space appropriate to a mining base.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
How will landing on planets make the game anymore immersive without additional gameplay content? Your suggestions of different places for different base functions apply to stations as well - the first step, I suppose, would be to move VO beyond the tabbed station interface to something graphical and different for the various tabs.
But the gain in immersiveness here is slight. It will take less than a week of casual play to become accustomed to and bored with the shiny new interfaces and planets, and we're back to where we are now. A real mission system with instanced enemies, different objectives, and a few story driven missions adds far more to the game than additional eye candy. This argument is largely moot, because I think the devs are taking the gameplay first tact anyway. Once we have a reason to play the game, they'll make the rest of it look good.
But the gain in immersiveness here is slight. It will take less than a week of casual play to become accustomed to and bored with the shiny new interfaces and planets, and we're back to where we are now. A real mission system with instanced enemies, different objectives, and a few story driven missions adds far more to the game than additional eye candy. This argument is largely moot, because I think the devs are taking the gameplay first tact anyway. Once we have a reason to play the game, they'll make the rest of it look good.
i am not saying this is a bad idea but i just think there might be better things to be doing at the moment.
"My apologies in advance for being direct, but it seems that you're ignoring the role-play part of the RPG. Having similar functionality is not the same thing as having a similar role. By your reasoning, we should probably also eliminate all trade goods with identical prices, and we might as well also make all the planets look identical, too, since they all function the same. Why don't we also make all the stations look identical, since they also function the same, too?"
not a bad agument but you can do the same with most things just taking it to an extrem. "fuit is good for you" "ahh but if you eat 100 fuit in a day you'll die thus fuit is not good for you" i don't reaily meen to be rude and i can see your point but i still think it whuddent add as much as other things that could be being done insted.
"My apologies in advance for being direct, but it seems that you're ignoring the role-play part of the RPG. Having similar functionality is not the same thing as having a similar role. By your reasoning, we should probably also eliminate all trade goods with identical prices, and we might as well also make all the planets look identical, too, since they all function the same. Why don't we also make all the stations look identical, since they also function the same, too?"
not a bad agument but you can do the same with most things just taking it to an extrem. "fuit is good for you" "ahh but if you eat 100 fuit in a day you'll die thus fuit is not good for you" i don't reaily meen to be rude and i can see your point but i still think it whuddent add as much as other things that could be being done insted.
I dunno... I tried out Vega Strike for a couple minutes, and I have mixed feelings. The screens look nice, but the layout is clunky. Buttons aren't always in the right positions, and the intermediate screens are somewhat of an annoyance.
It makes me feel like I'm in a mall with someone who has to stop at every window. Okay, I want to go to the Shipyard, but the game checks to make sure if I don't want to see the trade items, or the outfitters, or the bars... I want to get to the shipyard, damn it! Stop asking me if I want to go somewhere else! So going from one concourse to another can have several intermediate screens that you have to click through that really just slow things down, and make things complicated and confusing.
While I agree that Vendetta's screens are extremely simple, there's also an elegance to them. You can get all the business stuff of buying ships, weapons, cargo, checking stats, grouping weaps, all at once, and are able to get to each screen quickly, and get back into the gameplay as quickly as possible.
If anything, I'd prefer Vendetta's screens to look nicer, but to have the simple functionality of the current interface. We don't want to spend lots of time in stations looking at pretty pictures. We want to get our business done, and out into space, where things happen.
And in that sense, I'd rather see the devs put more work into the universe, like more diversity in NPC traders, better pathfinding for bots, better pathfinding for capitalships, more diversity in player controlled capital ships, more for the hive, more balance, etc, than putting a ton of work into a really nice station view.
If they could come up with a way to customize views slightly for each station, that would probably be enough to keep things interesting. I was thinking that since each station is built up of prefab components, then the view could zoom in and rotate around that component when you're in that screen. Maybe have the Char Info and News screens be the full station, or something.
and a quick bit about the FPS vs RPG thing, why can't Vendetta be a MMORPFPS? Or a MMOFPSRPG? It's perfectly easy to RP without having a "human face." Try playing a text based MUD. That's an extreme, but there's no chance of having a human face to interact with. But perhaps there needs to be more motivation to RP among players.
It makes me feel like I'm in a mall with someone who has to stop at every window. Okay, I want to go to the Shipyard, but the game checks to make sure if I don't want to see the trade items, or the outfitters, or the bars... I want to get to the shipyard, damn it! Stop asking me if I want to go somewhere else! So going from one concourse to another can have several intermediate screens that you have to click through that really just slow things down, and make things complicated and confusing.
While I agree that Vendetta's screens are extremely simple, there's also an elegance to them. You can get all the business stuff of buying ships, weapons, cargo, checking stats, grouping weaps, all at once, and are able to get to each screen quickly, and get back into the gameplay as quickly as possible.
If anything, I'd prefer Vendetta's screens to look nicer, but to have the simple functionality of the current interface. We don't want to spend lots of time in stations looking at pretty pictures. We want to get our business done, and out into space, where things happen.
And in that sense, I'd rather see the devs put more work into the universe, like more diversity in NPC traders, better pathfinding for bots, better pathfinding for capitalships, more diversity in player controlled capital ships, more for the hive, more balance, etc, than putting a ton of work into a really nice station view.
If they could come up with a way to customize views slightly for each station, that would probably be enough to keep things interesting. I was thinking that since each station is built up of prefab components, then the view could zoom in and rotate around that component when you're in that screen. Maybe have the Char Info and News screens be the full station, or something.
and a quick bit about the FPS vs RPG thing, why can't Vendetta be a MMORPFPS? Or a MMOFPSRPG? It's perfectly easy to RP without having a "human face." Try playing a text based MUD. That's an extreme, but there's no chance of having a human face to interact with. But perhaps there needs to be more motivation to RP among players.
You seem to feel landing on planets is neccesary to make the game have depth deku.
It's not.
The great grandaddy of all space games, (i'm talking about "Elite" here) had NO planetary landing. What it did have was an interesting, exciting universe. (and a massive universe at that) It had a good backstory that you could participate in or not as you saw fit. It had concequences for your actions, and it had events that occured based on the actions you had taken in the past.
This is the direction vendetta should be moving IMO. It's a SPACE game.
This is not to say that i wouldnt mind having the economy redone so that, for example, the stations in orbit around a planet had different types of goods availible than the stations in an asteroid belt. The stations that orbit a planet should have cargo's that reflect that fact, but to me there is absolutely NO reason to bother with actually landing on the planet.
1-In general i feel that the whole economy needs a revamp to make it more immersive.
2-Changing the way ores are mined so that the rare ores are much harder to find (put them in non-station sectors) will add some exploration and excitement to the game.
3-The Hive becoming something more of a "universal" enemy, with motivations, goals, strengths, and exploitable weaknesses, will add a lot of depth. particularly if its trying to control the mining in sectores where those rare ores are located.
4-Adding some form of limited production on high end ships and equipment so that there is a REASON to go kill the revamped hive, (namely mining those rare ores before the hive does)
5-More diverse and interesting missions, missions that have concequences as well as rewards. Storylines within the universe, NPC organizations and special equipment that are only availible from a faction if you have completed tasks X Y and Z without doing A H or Q for another faction.
These are all things that I would put much much higher on my list of things I want to see in a SPACE MMORPG than planet landings. (tho not neccesarily in the order i placed them above)
going back to your original post however:
I DO think that adding a more interactive bar would be a good step, one that could potentially add far more immersiveness than some new screens for a planetary station.
-you could have a random chance of being approached by a "shady character" for a mission on the "wrong" side of the law.
-buying drinks for the NPC's could get you a escort job protecting one of them on his trade route.
-Talking to other patrons might give you warnings about ion storms.
-chatting up the bartender might get you a tip that Trader Zed was taking Phase Arrays to Latos Mining because they are in high demand there. (at this point you actually have 2 options, go pirate trader zed or try to beat him there so you get the high market value instead of him)
-and many many more options like this.
The bar could be nothing more than a simple picture, with a couple of embedded links in it. Maybe have an expanded chat interface, (one where we can have multiple channel windows open at once ala IRC maybe?)
At first none of the links need to do anything, as mission content gets added (point 5 above) the links could be made active. That kind of change would be minimal coding at first, and as the game advances more functions could be added to the bar interface. Basically the bar would become the "unofficial" mission tab. A place where you can get personal missions from NPC's as opposed to Corporate missions from the factions.
That sort of depth is more interesting IMO than a planet interface that is really just another station, no matter how differently the stations choices are arranged.
Planetary landing is something of a dead end development direction at this point in time, once you are on the planet none of the new content that has been discussed for space and is based on the current game engine has any real bearing.
To add any real content for a planet (flying around, atmospheric conditions, ground targets, etc) would require a whole new game engine to be developed.
Developing the space aspect of the game is more important to me than adding a single feature that wont be expanded upon for a long time, if ever.
It's not.
The great grandaddy of all space games, (i'm talking about "Elite" here) had NO planetary landing. What it did have was an interesting, exciting universe. (and a massive universe at that) It had a good backstory that you could participate in or not as you saw fit. It had concequences for your actions, and it had events that occured based on the actions you had taken in the past.
This is the direction vendetta should be moving IMO. It's a SPACE game.
This is not to say that i wouldnt mind having the economy redone so that, for example, the stations in orbit around a planet had different types of goods availible than the stations in an asteroid belt. The stations that orbit a planet should have cargo's that reflect that fact, but to me there is absolutely NO reason to bother with actually landing on the planet.
1-In general i feel that the whole economy needs a revamp to make it more immersive.
2-Changing the way ores are mined so that the rare ores are much harder to find (put them in non-station sectors) will add some exploration and excitement to the game.
3-The Hive becoming something more of a "universal" enemy, with motivations, goals, strengths, and exploitable weaknesses, will add a lot of depth. particularly if its trying to control the mining in sectores where those rare ores are located.
4-Adding some form of limited production on high end ships and equipment so that there is a REASON to go kill the revamped hive, (namely mining those rare ores before the hive does)
5-More diverse and interesting missions, missions that have concequences as well as rewards. Storylines within the universe, NPC organizations and special equipment that are only availible from a faction if you have completed tasks X Y and Z without doing A H or Q for another faction.
These are all things that I would put much much higher on my list of things I want to see in a SPACE MMORPG than planet landings. (tho not neccesarily in the order i placed them above)
going back to your original post however:
I DO think that adding a more interactive bar would be a good step, one that could potentially add far more immersiveness than some new screens for a planetary station.
-you could have a random chance of being approached by a "shady character" for a mission on the "wrong" side of the law.
-buying drinks for the NPC's could get you a escort job protecting one of them on his trade route.
-Talking to other patrons might give you warnings about ion storms.
-chatting up the bartender might get you a tip that Trader Zed was taking Phase Arrays to Latos Mining because they are in high demand there. (at this point you actually have 2 options, go pirate trader zed or try to beat him there so you get the high market value instead of him)
-and many many more options like this.
The bar could be nothing more than a simple picture, with a couple of embedded links in it. Maybe have an expanded chat interface, (one where we can have multiple channel windows open at once ala IRC maybe?)
At first none of the links need to do anything, as mission content gets added (point 5 above) the links could be made active. That kind of change would be minimal coding at first, and as the game advances more functions could be added to the bar interface. Basically the bar would become the "unofficial" mission tab. A place where you can get personal missions from NPC's as opposed to Corporate missions from the factions.
That sort of depth is more interesting IMO than a planet interface that is really just another station, no matter how differently the stations choices are arranged.
Planetary landing is something of a dead end development direction at this point in time, once you are on the planet none of the new content that has been discussed for space and is based on the current game engine has any real bearing.
To add any real content for a planet (flying around, atmospheric conditions, ground targets, etc) would require a whole new game engine to be developed.
Developing the space aspect of the game is more important to me than adding a single feature that wont be expanded upon for a long time, if ever.
Um Elite 2:Frontier had landable planets and it STILL had a MASSIVE galaxy. So WTF are you talking about? Also why dosent everyone just agree that the devs are gonna ignore this for a while. Also i agree that we need more content before we add planets. Like a n00b Pirate mission. Twould be so cool.
Why is this thread still alive?
Could it be because I just posted in it bumping it up to the top again?!
:o
Couldn't be!!!!
Could it be because I just posted in it bumping it up to the top again?!
:o
Couldn't be!!!!
pirate_n00b: I'm talking about ELITE. the original one. not any of the sequels. (ok actually i'm talking about the port for the c-64, which is the first one I played, but still)
And it was used as a REFERENCE to show that you CAN have a space game with excellent depth that doesn't have landable planets. Having landable planets does not mean that a game has depth, you have to have something to DO on the planet, and I have yet to see a good reason posted for having the planetary landings.
And it was used as a REFERENCE to show that you CAN have a space game with excellent depth that doesn't have landable planets. Having landable planets does not mean that a game has depth, you have to have something to DO on the planet, and I have yet to see a good reason posted for having the planetary landings.
Elites flight engine is HARD the only way i win is by buying the strongest laser and shields.