Forums » Suggestions
I've heard the devs are doing some revamp on the UI, so I figured it was worth to put my two cents about the HUD space-scanners on the lower corners of the screen.
they're satisfactory now, but perhaps it'd be better if they were in 3D (and possibly just one). I'm thinking of the spinning, axis'd sphere-HUD from Colony Wars (old Playstation game). It was color coded, like this, but spun with you as your ship moved ("in front of you" was also always at the "front of the sphere"), and it showed distance by showing how far away the blue/red dots were from the green center—you.
here are some shots from that original game:
http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/colonywars6.jpg
http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/colonywars1.jpg
http://img.barterbee.com/coverg/40/636440.jpg
here are, i think, the advantages:
1) takes up less space than two cross-sections
2) could give a better depth-sense to approaching ships, since it's determined by distance and not transparency of the redicle-dot, and gives a more 3d-feeling overall
3) aesthetics (it looks pretty cool, i think)
now, first playing colony wars, a player can easily get thrown off by this strange, holographic, moving image (as I was), so it might not help the "learning curve" of vendetta—maybe it would improve it slightly, since you have only one scanner to look at and wouldn't get confused between which is your front and which is your back, and perhaps the targets on the scanner could just orbit around the center instead of the whole, gridded sphere move (as it did in CW). the disadvantages, however:
1. the scanner could easily get cluttered if there are lots of ships and/or asteroids in the sector (unless it keeps a good color-code system like there is now)
… and as a last note on this subject, i think it could also be good to have a whole-sector scanner (if that's even possible). i'm thinking of something from an old startrek game: "a final unity". unfortunately i couldn't get a good screen, but it displayed a rotating, gridded cube with dots and symbols to represent different things ( stations, asteroids, ships, etc). Maybe it wouldn't work for a sector, but perhaps for a whole starsystem it could make for an interesting, alternative view (especially if starystems start existing on a 3D-plane instead of just a 2D one).
one last thing, and then I'm done. I think it'd look really cool if the wormholes were more than just an animation that activated when a ship entered. Whenever I've encountered wormholes, whether in other games or in TV shows or whatever, it's always been this massive, gaping, conical thing—much like a black hole—rather than just a shockwave-event. Though the present animation is pretty beautiful itself, I think it'd be awesome to have a 3D model of this kind of gaping, cyan pit in a wormhole-sector, and then have the extra shockwave animation when a player enters it.
here's the deep space nine version:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/usshorizon/images/ds9wormhole.jpg
http://www.startrekfans.net/episodeguide/DS9/wormhole.jpg
Colony Wars also had something like this, and it continually rotated in the system as the player flew about. Very awe-inspiring object. (see the third CW screen, though it's got terrible optimization)
Anyway, those are my two cents. Sorry this post turned out so lengthy...
-2seraph
they're satisfactory now, but perhaps it'd be better if they were in 3D (and possibly just one). I'm thinking of the spinning, axis'd sphere-HUD from Colony Wars (old Playstation game). It was color coded, like this, but spun with you as your ship moved ("in front of you" was also always at the "front of the sphere"), and it showed distance by showing how far away the blue/red dots were from the green center—you.
here are some shots from that original game:
http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/colonywars6.jpg
http://www.vidgames.com/ps/screens/colonywars1.jpg
http://img.barterbee.com/coverg/40/636440.jpg
here are, i think, the advantages:
1) takes up less space than two cross-sections
2) could give a better depth-sense to approaching ships, since it's determined by distance and not transparency of the redicle-dot, and gives a more 3d-feeling overall
3) aesthetics (it looks pretty cool, i think)
now, first playing colony wars, a player can easily get thrown off by this strange, holographic, moving image (as I was), so it might not help the "learning curve" of vendetta—maybe it would improve it slightly, since you have only one scanner to look at and wouldn't get confused between which is your front and which is your back, and perhaps the targets on the scanner could just orbit around the center instead of the whole, gridded sphere move (as it did in CW). the disadvantages, however:
1. the scanner could easily get cluttered if there are lots of ships and/or asteroids in the sector (unless it keeps a good color-code system like there is now)
… and as a last note on this subject, i think it could also be good to have a whole-sector scanner (if that's even possible). i'm thinking of something from an old startrek game: "a final unity". unfortunately i couldn't get a good screen, but it displayed a rotating, gridded cube with dots and symbols to represent different things ( stations, asteroids, ships, etc). Maybe it wouldn't work for a sector, but perhaps for a whole starsystem it could make for an interesting, alternative view (especially if starystems start existing on a 3D-plane instead of just a 2D one).
one last thing, and then I'm done. I think it'd look really cool if the wormholes were more than just an animation that activated when a ship entered. Whenever I've encountered wormholes, whether in other games or in TV shows or whatever, it's always been this massive, gaping, conical thing—much like a black hole—rather than just a shockwave-event. Though the present animation is pretty beautiful itself, I think it'd be awesome to have a 3D model of this kind of gaping, cyan pit in a wormhole-sector, and then have the extra shockwave animation when a player enters it.
here's the deep space nine version:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/usshorizon/images/ds9wormhole.jpg
http://www.startrekfans.net/episodeguide/DS9/wormhole.jpg
Colony Wars also had something like this, and it continually rotated in the system as the player flew about. Very awe-inspiring object. (see the third CW screen, though it's got terrible optimization)
Anyway, those are my two cents. Sorry this post turned out so lengthy...
-2seraph
I would find that radar very distracting. Ours is nice and simple and makes it very, very easy to see what's around you. The 3D ones look nicer, but they really don't make it easier to see what's going on. As for the wormhole effect, well, I think the other one would take too much effort and has too much of a chance to look ugly like the DS9 one.
i like your idea about the radar, but i don't agree about the wormeholes.
First off, if the wormeholes are directional vorticies like you desc ribed than having ships enter from any angle wouldn't make sence. additionaly in DS9 at least the wormehole only apperaed when a ship was going threw, much like the animation we have now.
First off, if the wormeholes are directional vorticies like you desc ribed than having ships enter from any angle wouldn't make sence. additionaly in DS9 at least the wormehole only apperaed when a ship was going threw, much like the animation we have now.
It could be just the fact that I am used to the current radar set up, but I also feel it is much better if the design is simple and easy to look at. This is currently what the system we have now offers. At a quick glance i can tell if a ship is close, far, to my left, right, up, down, wherever. It also gives more space so that individual ships can be seen on the radar. In a "3d" radar a ship to my front right could be blocked by a ship to my rear right. Having 2 separate displays eliminates that.
good points
Content moved to new topic
~Seldon
~Seldon
I really like the HUD the way it is now. The best suggestion I've seen so far about improving the HUD was to make it modular, so players could decide what they want to be included in the HUD. I can keep mine as the simple, clean layout exactly as it is now, others can put more information they think is important on it.
For WH special effects, I also think the way ships enter/exit WHs now is excellent, and doesn't need to be changed at all. But, I think it would be cool if there was a special graphical effect at the WH location that would be visable even when noone was entering or exiting the WH. Something like heat waves - transparent, but the image of what's on the other side is slightly distorted.
For WH special effects, I also think the way ships enter/exit WHs now is excellent, and doesn't need to be changed at all. But, I think it would be cool if there was a special graphical effect at the WH location that would be visable even when noone was entering or exiting the WH. Something like heat waves - transparent, but the image of what's on the other side is slightly distorted.
Ah, yeah. That (the modular-ness of the HUD) was one thing I neglected to mention. However, many of these features are really neccecary for some people, myself included, to enjoy this sort of thing. I don't like having to figure out where the enemy is, and I don't like guessing about it. Any real millitary systems would have these features, and we ought to also.
~Seldon
~Seldon
I find todays system by far the easiest to use to figure out where people are, and to automatically target the closest enemy, start a bind that does 'x' for you every so often.
what does need to be done is to fix the radar blips a bit, the green / red doesn't work as well, but that's also a player issue. players who are green will happily attack in grey, but problably won't in monitored space. now that anyone who damages you becomes red, I think we're actually getting there a bit.
(oh, yeah, make guildmates a different color and remove them from the hostile list, that'd be mighty nice)
what does need to be done is to fix the radar blips a bit, the green / red doesn't work as well, but that's also a player issue. players who are green will happily attack in grey, but problably won't in monitored space. now that anyone who damages you becomes red, I think we're actually getting there a bit.
(oh, yeah, make guildmates a different color and remove them from the hostile list, that'd be mighty nice)
> make guildmates a different color and remove them from the hostile list, that'd be mighty nice
Different color would be fine, but I wouldn't necessarily say they should be removed from the hostile list. There could be some situations where a guildmate would be considered a hostile.
Different color would be fine, but I wouldn't necessarily say they should be removed from the hostile list. There could be some situations where a guildmate would be considered a hostile.
Take numlock off and try flying after binding the surrounding keys. I use the arrow keys, its similar...
Yea... I'd like to see guildmates be colored orange and be visible anywhere in the sector (like groupmates).
Things are already really, really simple. Your 3D map would serve to make things more complex. Let me try to make this nice and simple. Your eyes process things in 2D. They can determine depth to some degree, but the base unit is 2D. When three dimensions are represented on a two dimensional surface, your mind already has enough trouble determining where things are. If it didn't, every 3D modeler would use an angled view, rather than the normal "front, side, top" triad. By representing the "radar" as two two-dimensional surfaces, VO manages to present as much data as a single three-dimensional surface, but in a way that your brain finds much easier to wrap around. Once you've played for a few hours, you'll start to see that.
As for the "whole sector scanner", this game is easy already. Do we need to turn it into a 3rd person RTS-style interface too?
And as for the wormhole, well, I think I already presented my opinion on that. I find that a DS9-style wormhole effect would A: probably look bad, especially with low LOD settings (it would be 3d instead of the current mostly-2d one) and B: not match up with the storyline (wormholes only appear when energy is expended, not as a constant effect).
And for your minor point about systems being 2D instead of 3D, there are many, many threads on the subject. Systems were originally supposed to be 3D, but that was too complex, would make navigation an order of magnitude more difficult, and be more difficult to program. Incarnate (or was it ray?) said that a 3D navmap option might be added in the "Exploration" expansion pack, but probably not. The psudoscience explaination was that the universe was really 3D, but your navigational computer simplified the pilot interface down to a 2D representation.
Hmm. Maybe that was a tad bit complex... Oh well...
As for the "whole sector scanner", this game is easy already. Do we need to turn it into a 3rd person RTS-style interface too?
And as for the wormhole, well, I think I already presented my opinion on that. I find that a DS9-style wormhole effect would A: probably look bad, especially with low LOD settings (it would be 3d instead of the current mostly-2d one) and B: not match up with the storyline (wormholes only appear when energy is expended, not as a constant effect).
And for your minor point about systems being 2D instead of 3D, there are many, many threads on the subject. Systems were originally supposed to be 3D, but that was too complex, would make navigation an order of magnitude more difficult, and be more difficult to program. Incarnate (or was it ray?) said that a 3D navmap option might be added in the "Exploration" expansion pack, but probably not. The psudoscience explaination was that the universe was really 3D, but your navigational computer simplified the pilot interface down to a 2D representation.
Hmm. Maybe that was a tad bit complex... Oh well...
I could see the 3D radar for Capship pilots, but it would be interesting to try it. Perhaps a toggle?
put it into the modular features of the HUD. If the devs have the time to do it, maybe have several different styles of radar, targeting screen, chat, etc, and the player can choose which parts they want to keep, and which parts they don't.
I agree that for tactical situations the current HUD is acceptable and probably quicker to learn and absorb when things get fast and furious in a melee. I think that little ball is just too small to get what is going on in a battle with the number of ships that we deal with.
However, strategically (or if I'm just lost!), I would like the ability to toggle on a larger 3D globe of the sector showing your position, the position of ships and small obstacles in your "sensor" range and larger stationary items (like stations, Planets, moons, asteroid fields,etc.) possibly with a quadrant system to record or say where you and other items are located in the sector.
This would be something that would be big and probably take up a good part of the HUD when ON and would not be useful during combat. But, it might add some new avenues for gameplay! Hmmmm! ;-)
I also like the idea for a separate color for friendly guild ships.
However, strategically (or if I'm just lost!), I would like the ability to toggle on a larger 3D globe of the sector showing your position, the position of ships and small obstacles in your "sensor" range and larger stationary items (like stations, Planets, moons, asteroid fields,etc.) possibly with a quadrant system to record or say where you and other items are located in the sector.
This would be something that would be big and probably take up a good part of the HUD when ON and would not be useful during combat. But, it might add some new avenues for gameplay! Hmmmm! ;-)
I also like the idea for a separate color for friendly guild ships.
I just want to add to my comments after my recent experience with mining. Everything is a first time for me, right now.
I get lost in all those rocks. I can't tell which ones I've been to or already scanned. It would be nice to have something which gave you your location in space easily.
Perhaps, I am so new to this world that I don't realize that it ceases to become a problem later; but I don't see how.
I get lost in all those rocks. I can't tell which ones I've been to or already scanned. It would be nice to have something which gave you your location in space easily.
Perhaps, I am so new to this world that I don't realize that it ceases to become a problem later; but I don't see how.
Re: Celkan
> I could see the 3D radar for Capship pilots, but it would be interesting to try it.
> Perhaps a toggle?
How about a toggle for all pilots? I'm bored with the current double 2D radar screens, and would prefer a single 3D one. It would appear more modern and sophisticated, and remind me of the radar screen on the bridge in the Japanese space combat anime series Space Cruiser Yamato.
Players who prefer the current version could always toggle between the two.
Re: MJHorn
> However, strategically (or if I'm just lost!), I would like the ability to toggle on a
> larger 3D globe of the sector showing your position, the position of ships and
> small obstacles in your "sensor" range and larger stationary items (like stations,
> Planets, moons, asteroid fields,etc.) possibly with a quadrant system to record
> or say where you and other items are located in the sector.
>
> This would be something that would be big and probably take up a good part of
> the HUD when ON and would not be useful during combat. But, it might add
> some new avenues for gameplay! Hmmmm! ;-)
It should also help to have an additional toggle for switching between a small 3D globe for tactical use, and a larger transparent 3D globe that would take up most of the screen for strategic use. In the larger version, each ship could be tagged with a short line between its blip and a short description showing its alignment, ship type, range, and trajectory vis-à-vis the origin (i.e., the player's ship).
The user should be able to select the globe and use the mouse to rotate it for a better view.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> I could see the 3D radar for Capship pilots, but it would be interesting to try it.
> Perhaps a toggle?
How about a toggle for all pilots? I'm bored with the current double 2D radar screens, and would prefer a single 3D one. It would appear more modern and sophisticated, and remind me of the radar screen on the bridge in the Japanese space combat anime series Space Cruiser Yamato.
Players who prefer the current version could always toggle between the two.
Re: MJHorn
> However, strategically (or if I'm just lost!), I would like the ability to toggle on a
> larger 3D globe of the sector showing your position, the position of ships and
> small obstacles in your "sensor" range and larger stationary items (like stations,
> Planets, moons, asteroid fields,etc.) possibly with a quadrant system to record
> or say where you and other items are located in the sector.
>
> This would be something that would be big and probably take up a good part of
> the HUD when ON and would not be useful during combat. But, it might add
> some new avenues for gameplay! Hmmmm! ;-)
It should also help to have an additional toggle for switching between a small 3D globe for tactical use, and a larger transparent 3D globe that would take up most of the screen for strategic use. In the larger version, each ship could be tagged with a short line between its blip and a short description showing its alignment, ship type, range, and trajectory vis-à-vis the origin (i.e., the player's ship).
The user should be able to select the globe and use the mouse to rotate it for a better view.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
I still say that the Freespace 2 radar is far better than a hard-to-read 3D radar:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10204 (read my topic, #$@#$!)
http://homepage.mac.com/dimpfinator/.Pictures/Vendetta/fs2huduncluttered.jpg
~Seldon
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10204 (read my topic, #$@#$!)
http://homepage.mac.com/dimpfinator/.Pictures/Vendetta/fs2huduncluttered.jpg
~Seldon